Author Topic: Awesome Hook vs. WMB??? (Read 2010 times)

WaveHog · « **on:** December 09, 2006, 08:58:49 PM »

Drilled the same, what, if any, reaction difference would I see without making any cover changes?

I like my match up with my AH and it's odd drill, 4.25 x 4. Looks to be 30*?? Pin above and on grip line. 16.5 mph and 235 rpm but I will be starting in a new league 1/07 on Anvile lanes with a long medium pattern and the only two times I've bolwed on them before the ball was near dead and gave me a lot of odd leaves and more splits than anywhere else. I just could not get the kind of entry angle I wanted and the only polished Ball I had then was a Jolt Pearl and that just shot across the backend giving me even worse leaves and fewer strikes.

I'd like to get some more entry angle / backend pop, out of the WMB I just got for the new league / Anvile lanes.

Can somweone suggest some drillings?

I got two WMB. #1. 15.2, 2.7, 3" pin. #2. 15.1, 2.9, 4" pin. Only drilling on the sheet that doesn't require at least some change to match the ball to me is the medium track control drill and I don't know if I have the rev's for that. I can do the sheets forward roll drill (different than the one that shows up on the web) if I drop the pin from the sheets 1.75" above midline to 1.375, otherwise I'm too close to the finger holes. I can put the pin in one of the finger holes but have little clue where to put mb or the reactions I might get.

If pin goes in the ring finger it will be 3.375 from the PAP and 2.875 above the mid line. If in the middle finger, it will be 4.5" from the PAP and will probably allow for some sort of modified forward roll drill.

I did get somee Rough Buff and some Scotch pads to help on the reaction end.

edit, note my measurements were off, see below.

Edited on 12/13/2006 2:46 AM

Strider · « **Reply #1 on:** December 10, 2006, 06:07:15 AM »

The best piece of advice I can give is to find a pro shop that is very familiar with both your game and Mo's cores (or at least strong asymmetric cores). When drilled "properly", you will get much more out of these balls compared to if you lay them out generically.

If the Jolt Pearl was "shooting across the lanes", there isn't near enough oil for a WMB. Secondly. if you want "more entry angle/back end pop", you couldn't have chosen a worse ball. The WMB is one of my favorite balls and is always in the bag for tournaments. This ball defines smooth. It's about controlling the break point, not flip and angle. Some of Mo's other strong pieces can make a big move at the break point, but that is not a strength of the WMB.
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clintdaley · « **Reply #2 on:** December 10, 2006, 07:12:37 AM »

Well....they are both 500 grit cover prep if I am not mistaken. With the particle cover on the WMB, it is earlier (can handle a tisker more oil) while the Hook will turn the corner harder as it gets down the lane better...however, with both being such a gritty cover, it will not be much different with the same cover prep as they both LOVE oil...

Clint
--------------------
Clint Daley-Owner
Lets Go Bowling Daley
Inside Hunt Club Lanes
Salem, Ohio 44460

MoRich pro shop staff

www.letsgobowlingdaley.com

I NOW ACCEPT ALL CREDIT CARDS, NO MORE NEED FOR PAYPAL OR MONEY ORDERS IF WE DON'T HAVE TO....JUST PM ME TO GET MY SHOP NUMBER TO COMPLETE THE TRANSACTION!

FBM357 · « **Reply #3 on:** December 12, 2006, 10:44:38 AM »

quote:
Well....they are both 500 grit cover prep if I am not mistaken. With the particle cover on the WMB, it is earlier (can handle a tisker more oil) while the Hook will turn the corner harder as it gets down the lane better...however, with both being such a gritty cover, it will not be much different with the same cover prep as they both LOVE oil...

Clint
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Umm, anything in regards to the effects his layout will have other than your typical generic 'With the particle cover on the WMB, it is earlier (can handle a tisker more oil) while the Hook will turn the corner harder as it gets down the lane...' response? Though both use Vanguard core, they also differ in shape. I'm curious to know as I've had the WMB for quite a while and wonder what effect the dual blocks have on the Vanguard core.

Traumabill · « **Reply #4 on:** December 12, 2006, 11:39:39 AM »

Wave Hog,

Given the same drill on both balls, the WMB will be smoother off the breakpoint and start to roll slightly later than the Hook due to it's higher RG. The Hook's dual blocks allow it to corner harder and give it more entry angle. Even though the WMB is particle, the Hook is much stronger/earlier in Oil, at least here in the Northeast. Given the fact you say the 'ball is near dead' on your long medium shot, it appears that the Hook is burning up for you in Box finish. Chances are the Weapon in the same drill/box finish will do the same.

All is not lost. What can be done, based on the info you've provided is to try and get the WMB down the lane before it starts to make it's move. Without knowing your PAP, a somewhat educated guess would be to put a flip drilling on the WMB, something like a 4 1/4" x 5 1/4"mb with the pin 2" from your VAL, and high,
above the finger holes. Maybe 3 3/8 pin to mb based on your PAP. This will get your WMB down the lane and make it's move later than it normally would. But, at the same time you're trying to get the ball to do something it wasn't designed to do, and that's to be angular.

As a general rule of thumb, the closer the mb gets to your VAL the earlier the reaction, with 45 degrees considered to be the strongest possible place for the MB.

If you have any more questions, feel free to ask...

Hope this helps,

Bill
Bowling Services Unlimited
www.bsuproshops.com
Vise Inserts Staff
www.viseinserts.com

clintdaley · « **Reply #5 on:** December 12, 2006, 12:19:47 PM »

While my first response was typical and generic, MANY new and even some bowlers who have been around still do not get ball specs in general, so while it may be generic to us, there are some who may not understand this yet. Before you can go into nitty gritty specifics, they need to know the basics first.

With that said, the caps help create continuation. In essence, even at the 500 grit, due to the caps, the ball will still continue on the backend...obviosuly the WMB does not have any caps, and thus will not have the continuation of the Hook due to that reason.

Clint
--------------------
Clint Daley-Owner
Lets Go Bowling Daley
Inside Hunt Club Lanes
Salem, Ohio 44460

MoRich pro shop staff

www.letsgobowlingdaley.com

I NOW ACCEPT ALL CREDIT CARDS, NO MORE NEED FOR PAYPAL OR MONEY ORDERS IF WE DON'T HAVE TO....JUST PM ME TO GET MY SHOP NUMBER TO COMPLETE THE TRANSACTION!

FBM357 · « **Reply #6 on:** December 12, 2006, 01:17:27 PM »

okay, conflicting messages here....

Traumabill indicates "Even though the WMB is particle, the Hook is much stronger/earlier in Oil"

Clintdaley indicates "With the particle cover on the WMB, it is earlier (can handle a tisker more oil) "

Umm, weeee bit confused....

Traumabill · « **Reply #7 on:** December 12, 2006, 01:38:09 PM »

Vern,

Having thrown both, with similiar drills, the Hook was earlier. It's lower RG, higher diff and faster spin time all account for a stronger ball - at least from what I've experienced....Your mileage may vary.

Bill
Bowling Services Unlimited
www.bsuproshops.com
Vise Inserts Staff
www.viseinserts.com

clintdaley · « **Reply #8 on:** December 12, 2006, 01:42:27 PM »

WMB is earlier for me....of course, this is LEFT handed now, and my speed is slower since going left handed....I actually have 2 Hooks drilled lefty.....one factory, one highly polished....both go longer than my out of box WMB....but once again, in different peoples hands.....

Clint
--------------------
Clint Daley-Owner
Lets Go Bowling Daley
Inside Hunt Club Lanes
Salem, Ohio 44460

MoRich pro shop staff

www.letsgobowlingdaley.com

I NOW ACCEPT ALL CREDIT CARDS, NO MORE NEED FOR PAYPAL OR MONEY ORDERS IF WE DON'T HAVE TO....JUST PM ME TO GET MY SHOP NUMBER TO COMPLETE THE TRANSACTION!

FBM357 · « **Reply #9 on:** December 12, 2006, 03:06:28 PM »

Bill,

Thanks for the 'tech' answer. Characteristics of the ball (i.e. diff, RG, etc.) are key variables and help in the determining the difference.

quote:
Vern,

Having thrown both, with similiar drills, the Hook was earlier. It's lower RG, higher diff and faster spin time all account for a stronger ball - at least from what I've experienced....Your mileage may vary.

Bill
Bowling Services Unlimited
www.bsuproshops.com
Vise Inserts Staff
www.viseinserts.com

WaveHog · « **Reply #10 on:** December 13, 2006, 01:29:34 AM »

I've tried replying to this twice but it takes me longer to type a full detailed response than it appears to give me time for. Anyway thank's to all and I got two drill suggestions back from Morich.

#1. 4 1/4" x 5 1/4 mb w/ 3 1/2" pin above mid line. (3" up puts it in the ring finger and 4 1/4" up puts it almost exactly where Traumabill suggested)

#2. 3 3/8" x 5 mb w/ 2 3/4" pin above mid line.

more later

WaveHog · « **Reply #11 on:** December 13, 2006, 01:33:22 AM »

Traumabill and others, Thanks for the responses. I got the ball to a pro shop to ask a few

and take some measurements to back up my, somewhat, crude ones. Not surprising, my AH drill is a typical medium track forward roll drill. If I have oil the AH matches up well with me at the three other places I've bowled. So, then I was thinking maybe I could just drill WMB the same but smooth the surface and/or put the Rough Buff or an even coarser polish on it and it might get down further and hook more on the back end than the AH on the Anvil lanes with what I'm told is an odd oil pattern. The pro shop measurements also indicate I would have no problem with the pin being to close to the finger hole with a control drill either.

I sent a drill request to Morich after that with all my specs and the lane conditions and they said, something to the effect that within the parameters of what the ball was supposed to do, they recommended these drillings. (I requested 2)

#1. 4 1/4" x 5 1/4mb w/ 3 1/2" pin above mid line. (If I put it 3" up it will be in the middle of my ring finger, w/mb 3/4" from my thumb at 4:30) (If I put it above the ring it will be 4.25" above midline and 1.5" from VAL and the mb will be at the edge of my thumb hole 1/8" rt of grip line, damn close to what Traumabill suggested and my measurements could be off 1/8" easy.)

#2. 3 3/8" x 5 mb w/ 2 3/4" above mid line. (best I can do is 3 3/4" up or 1 3/8" up and not be to close to finger hole. With 3 3/4 up the mb is at the edge of the thumb hole at 3:00 and the pin is 1 1/8" from VAL)

Thanks all and any more input is welcomed.

Thought I lost it.

Author Topic: Awesome Hook vs. WMB??? (Read 2010 times)

WaveHog

Awesome Hook vs. WMB???

Strider

Re: Awesome Hook vs. WMB???

clintdaley

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FBM357

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Traumabill

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clintdaley

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FBM357

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Traumabill

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clintdaley

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FBM357

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WaveHog

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WaveHog

Re: Awesome Hook vs. WMB???