Author Topic: Would a Shock & Awe... (Read 4315 times)

230-n-up-or-bust · « **on:** January 17, 2006, 07:28:34 AM »

...sanded down to 220 followed by an application of Brunswick's Rough Buff compound emulate an Absolute Inferno or would the Vanguard core make a considerable amount of difference? I realize this might be a lot of work to try to realize the overall effect of an AI, however, I've got some time and far too much curiousity and I'd like to give it a shot. Thanks for your help.
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One of the few players to have beaten Marty Ubanczyk in the 1951 U.S. Open.

230-n-up-or-bust · « **Reply #1 on:** January 17, 2006, 03:35:53 PM »

http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=110235&ForumID=85&CategoryID=2

This link helps me to answer the question. I was hoping for someone to have first hand knowledge on their success, or lack thereof, with this experiment. However, if the ball come from Morich as the AI does, and gives a little better move to the pocket, me thinks me knows what me next ball is...
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One of the few players to have beaten Marty Ubanczyk in the 1951 U.S. Open.

Edited on 1/17/2006 4:23 PM

charlest · « **Reply #2 on:** January 17, 2006, 05:25:43 PM »

230,

Did you see my reply in the ballreviews thread that you referenced?

I have direct experience. You must be SUPER careful to follow the precise MoRich drilling instructions. That Vanguard core is very strong and can cause a very early roll on that cover (220 sanded followed by Rough Buff, the stock finish!!). I used a 5" (pin) x 4"(MB-to-PAP) x 2.5" (up from midline) drilling and had to apply polish on a true medium oil pattern to get any length at all.

The symmetric core on the AI gets much easier length, without polish on medium oil.

As long as you can get length, both hit like the proverbial truck.

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"...for advice is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise...."
J. R. R. Tolkien

230-n-up-or-bust · « **Reply #3 on:** January 17, 2006, 09:31:13 PM »

Length isn't a primary concern for me. With a combination of ball speed, loft, or hand positioning, I'll rarely encounter a shot that I can't get the ball to the transition. My chief concern is for the area in and just past the transition where the ball begins it's move to the pocket(38-40'). I'd like to make sure that it's not too abrupt without sacrificing entry angle. In other words, I'm walking a fine line. With the 16.8-17.5 MPH ball speed, my ideal breakpoint is 42-45 feet at the four to six board. I'm usually on fresher backends with little or no carrydown. Like I said, maybe I'm trying to re-invent the wheel. Maybe I should just look for another AI. However, I believe that the motor in the S&A might create more overall hitting power and a more pronounced entry angle resulting in increased carry.
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One of the few players to have beaten Marty Ubanczyk in the 1951 U.S. Open.

scotts33 · « **Reply #4 on:** January 17, 2006, 10:26:17 PM »

quote:
However, I believe that the motor in the S&A might create more overall hitting power and a more pronounced entry angle resulting in increased carry.

I think you are right on here 230. It sounds to me like most folks that have problems with MoRich or for that matter any high angle entry equipment is being able to get to the "spot". Boy did I fight that tonight.

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Scott

dizzyfugu · « **Reply #5 on:** January 18, 2006, 01:17:43 AM »

The Vanguard core in the S&A makes the ball move more dramtically than an AI, which is rather rolly. The S&A is even more aggressice at the breakpoint than a Vapor Zone, which is a bit closer.
The OOB finish of the S&A is a compound finish, but it has less grit than Rough Buff, giving it, from my experiences, 4-6' more length than an AI, but is less nervous than a true polish.
With Rough Buff, the S&A should work fine on a bit more oil. I found it too nervous on long, oily patterns, being a true medium condition ball (although I have medium revs and lower speed, teherfore it tends to "run away" soon).
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DizzyFugu --- Reporting from Germany
Team "X": http://homepage.mac.com/timlinked/
"All that we see or seem, is but a dream within a dream..." - Edgar Allen Poe

Jeffrevs · « **Reply #6 on:** January 18, 2006, 06:10:48 AM »

230, you may be able to get this movement out of a control drill, which gives you late revs and the vanguard core will give you plenty of power to boot.

don't think about a control drill as a "roll early" drill,...it's not ....it flares later and revs later, but doesn't go sideways at the spot.

message king of the mill with your stats and see what he says....
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JEFF
"A Mayhem and a couple of Hercs.......uhm.....Nice!.."

tekneek · « **Reply #7 on:** January 18, 2006, 08:00:00 AM »

John, I have had 2 S&A's, #1 drilled 3-3/8 x 5-1/4 x 2, standard sharp break point for a high tracker, the ball worked fine without any herky jerky motion at 42'( breakpoint, 42 ft buff)

#2 drilled assy flip 4-1/4 pin to PAP, 5-1/4MB to PAP, pin 3-1/2 above midline, 2" from val, increased length by 3 feet,late core revs, still no skid snap motion, just very hard cornering to the pocket, have a S&D drilled the same, the S&D mocks the S&A motion, still very controllable. The rough buff finish keeps it from becoming skid snappy, apply degree 2000 polish and then you get out of control.
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Steve
Stars and Strikes Pro Shop

charlest · « **Reply #8 on:** January 18, 2006, 11:10:30 AM »

My "experiments" agree with tekneek and disagree wildly from dizzyfugu. I got no snap, just hard arc from the S&A, even with higher pin positions and polish. I got more potential for snap from the AI with higher pins and polish. 4 different drillings on 2 S&As plus several surface preps always produced a early rolling, arc-ing ball reaction.

FYI The core on the AI is no slouch either - hard revving and high flaring.

The Vapor Zones I have seen (don't have one), in many hands, is significantly more flippy than the S&A.
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"...for advice is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise...."
J. R. R. Tolkien

tekneek · « **Reply #9 on:** January 18, 2006, 11:47:24 AM »

Charlest, I have not thrown a VZ yet either, however my shop assistant has one with the exact assy flip drilling as is on my S&A I could not believe how much and quickly it changes direction, it is from what I have seen more aggressive than both the AI as well as the S&A, much more radical movement than either.
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Steve
Stars and Strikes Pro Shop

charlest · « **Reply #10 on:** January 18, 2006, 12:37:16 PM »

quote:
Charlest, I have not thrown a VZ yet either, however my shop assistant has one with the exact assy flip drilling as is on my S&A I could not believe how much and quickly it changes direction, it is from what I have seen more aggressive than both the AI as well as the S&A, much more radical movement than either.
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Steve
Stars and Strikes Pro Shop

Indeed, it seems like that Brunswick asymmetric core makes all their coverstocks get extra length and flip, if you'll excuse the pun, like a Banshee; even the 800 grit sanded solid Strike Zone seems to get so much more length than the Ultimate.
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"...for advice is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise...."
J. R. R. Tolkien

BallsDeep · « **Reply #11 on:** January 18, 2006, 01:30:17 PM »

I may drill a vapor, but I have had two S&A's and a Absolute. The absolute drilled pin about 5 1/2" from pap 3" above mid was kind of skid...rev...arc. I tried a few surface preps, but still no real snap. The S&A's on the other hand were very snappy. The one I have drilled with the same pin position and mb at 6" was probably the snappiest ball I have ever thrown.
I do agree with the assesment of the Bruns. asym core as being quite a bit longer than the inferno ultra low rg., but I just see a strong arc, no violent change of direction.
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four fried chickens and a coke[/size=4]

230-n-up-or-bust · « **Reply #12 on:** January 18, 2006, 08:42:25 PM »

Thanks, folks.

Between these posts and the pm's I've recieved, I should be all set once my S&A gets here. I hope to give it a workout at the Brunswick Team Challenge in a few weeks.
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One of the few players to have beaten Marty Ubanczyk in the 1951 U.S. Open.

Author Topic: Would a Shock & Awe... (Read 4315 times)

230-n-up-or-bust

Would a Shock & Awe...

230-n-up-or-bust

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charlest

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230-n-up-or-bust

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scotts33

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dizzyfugu

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Jeffrevs

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tekneek

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charlest

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tekneek

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charlest

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BallsDeep

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230-n-up-or-bust

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