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Author Topic: Ball match up issues  (Read 8725 times)

Joker-1

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Ball match up issues
« on: August 11, 2015, 08:39:47 PM »
For some reason no matter what surface I have on my shock or primal rage or hand position, I can't seem to make the ball hit properly. The ball either hits light and leaves 7 pins or if I make the adjustment it goes high and leaves a split. I don't think I've ever had a motiv ball hit properly. I don't have issues like this with other companies. Does anyone have any suggestions or why this happens? What I'm throwing is a shock pin down below ring and primal is pin above bridge.

 

Impending Doom

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Re: Ball match up issues
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2015, 02:21:24 PM »
I hope they're stronger than Storm covers. I've asked Brett S and he was literally no help. I've talked to 2 staffers and an employee and the information I've gotten from them is minimal at best. Not too happy with that aspect of it, but knowing that cover x is stronger than cover y would help me me out. Also, notice that almost none of the videos (at least the ones I've seen) do the staffers/testers have extra holes in the balls. (Matty Gs Covert might have had one).

spmcgivern

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Re: Ball match up issues
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2015, 03:53:58 PM »
I hope they're stronger than Storm covers. I've asked Brett S and he was literally no help. I've talked to 2 staffers and an employee and the information I've gotten from them is minimal at best. Not too happy with that aspect of it, but knowing that cover x is stronger than cover y would help me me out. Also, notice that almost none of the videos (at least the ones I've seen) do the staffers/testers have extra holes in the balls. (Matty Gs Covert might have had one).

Not sure what you expect Brett to say.  He doesn't throw Storm so knowing whether or not a coverstock is stronger or weaker than another would be a guess at best.  So much depends on the condition of the coverstock like surface, oil absorption along with the conditions you are bowling on.

And to the point of an extra hole, if the ball performs as expected to begin with, then what point does adding an extra hole make?  Plus, a lot of the videos you see are when bowlers first get their equipment before they figure out if they need a hole or not.  Eventually they may find a need to get an extra hole added, but at first probably not.  I would be pissed if I asked a driller for a ball and there was an extra hole in it before I ever threw the ball.

Joker-1

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Re: Ball match up issues
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2015, 10:20:27 PM »
So basically I'm using the wrong layouts but I don't ever had an issue with layout before like this. It's not like it was some crazy layout either

johnkim

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Re: Ball match up issues
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2015, 05:35:05 AM »
Hitting light or getting a split is probably having not enough of ball.
You might need stronger cover. You might want to change the cover to lower grit.
I have many motiv balls and they seem to be much stronger than how it is advertised.

Or the ball is too strong for the lane that you are bowling and having not enough energy entering the pocket which will result leaving a single pin.

One way you can test is to polish the ball and see if you get better carry.

Good luck...

stormed1

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Re: Ball match up issues
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2015, 06:21:55 AM »
Pin over bridge, pin under ring tells us nothing without knowing things like your PAP, rev rate, etc. for example using 2 people I drill for and myself a pin over bridge for customer A would be 3 1/2" from his pap. Customer B would be 6 3/4" and for me would be 5 1/2". Assuming all other things being equal ( rev rate,axis rotation,ball speed etc) you would see a large difference in ball reaction between the 3 bowlers
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Impending Doom

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Re: Ball match up issues
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2015, 07:49:06 AM »
To be fair, I told him my situation, coming from 900 Global and all he could tell me is what their best sellers were. Mags was the most helpful. (Thanks Mike!) And Justin wax busy at a demo.

All I'm saying is if you have a potential customer and someone willing to build a whole arsenal of your product, don't give me some canned answer.

Steven

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Re: Ball match up issues
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2015, 10:34:57 AM »
I'm on my second Primal Rage. The first one cracked and Motiv, to their credit, replaced it. 
 
The Rage is a ball I've never completely trusted. It seems very sensitive to release, much more so than most other balls I've owned. My current Rage is drilled with my favorite pattern (pin over fingers on center grip line, CG kicked to the right with a balance hole). The ball is fun to throw when everything is executed perfectly. But to the OP's point, it seems susceptible to more than it's share of light and high hits.
 
I'm not sure the core/cover match-up on the Rage is ideal. I've tried different surfaces and different pin positions, but the sensitive behavior hasn't changed. Regardless, I've own a lot of Motiv balls, and overall I've been happy with their performance. I wouldn't write off a company based on not matching up with one or two of their pieces.   

Brickguy221

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Re: Ball match up issues
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2015, 01:49:21 PM »
My Rage is opposite of what some of you are reporting. The Rage is one of my all time favorite balls. It is so versatile for me and I find it's hit carry second to none.

Mine has a low pin drilling with pin under RF and drilled 35* x 3 7/8 x 65*
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J_w73

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Re: Ball match up issues
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2015, 02:39:42 PM »
My Primal Rage did nothing before I put a double thumb weight hole in it.  Now it is great and I love it. I would do what was suggested to see that the ball is not burning up by going to a finer grit surface or polish and see if you get better reaction and carry.  If not, then maybe try more surface or a flare and asymmetry increasing weight hole  6 3/4 from the pin and near the thumb hole.
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Steven

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Re: Ball match up issues
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2015, 03:28:48 PM »
My Rage is opposite of what some of you are reporting. The Rage is one of my all time favorite balls. It is so versatile for me and I find it's hit carry second to none.

 
Brick, I'm glad you like your Rage. However, some deeper information about the ball might shed light on why many have struggled with it.
 
The Rage is designed to be a big backend ball. In fact, Motiv loves to tout that BTM gave the Rage the highest backend rating of any ball they've tested. Couple that with Jake Peters putting the "red ball" on the map with his 2013 Badger Open win, the Rage got an incredible amount of hype. When Michael Hagen Jr. won the 2014 Scorpion Championship in the WSOB using the Rage, that cemented the reputation of the ball further.
 
What's interesting is when you look at the wins by Peters and Hagen using the Rage, they were bowling on conditions most bowlers rarely see. Badger is a long 52', and Peters very effectively used a deeper fad shot to secure the win. Similarly, Haugen used a deeper fade shot to gut out a very tight and difficult Scorpion pattern that most of the players were struggling on.
 
On most THS patterns, or sport patterns with a lot of fresh built-in friction, the Rage can be a tough ball to control. Balls with huge hockey stick reactions have a sexy appeal, but you do lose some level of control at the break point. I do like the drill pattern you chose for the ball. If I had to set up a third Rage, I'd go with a pin down layout to tame some of the backend. I believe that would make the ball more usable.         

lilpossum1

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Re: Ball match up issues
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2015, 07:16:16 PM »
I bought the rage based on how most everyone seemed to like it on here. And I threw a demo at the pro shop and liked the reaction. I had it drilled to be a little earlier and smoother to tame the flip and I absolutely love it

Brickguy221

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Re: Ball match up issues
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2015, 08:52:56 PM »

 
Brick, I'm glad you like your Rage. However, some deeper information about the ball might shed light on why many have struggled with it.
 
The Rage is designed to be a big backend ball. In fact, Motiv loves to tout that BTM gave the Rage the highest backend rating of any ball they've tested. Couple that with Jake Peters putting the "red ball" on the map with his 2013 Badger Open win, the Rage got an incredible amount of hype. When Michael Hagen Jr. won the 2014 Scorpion Championship in the WSOB using the Rage, that cemented the reputation of the ball further.
 
What's interesting is when you look at the wins by Peters and Hagen using the Rage, they were bowling on conditions most bowlers rarely see. Badger is a long 52', and Peters very effectively used a deeper fad shot to secure the win. Similarly, Haugen used a deeper fade shot to gut out a very tight and difficult Scorpion pattern that most of the players were struggling on.
 
On most THS patterns, or sport patterns with a lot of fresh built-in friction, the Rage can be a tough ball to control. Balls with huge hockey stick reactions have a sexy appeal, but you do lose some level of control at the break point. I do like the drill pattern you chose for the ball. If I had to set up a third Rage, I'd go with a pin down layout to tame some of the backend. I believe that would make the ball more usable.         

Steven, I am sure as indicated in this topic now, that a few people have struggled with it, but I have read more success posts of people liking the Rage than negative posts about those not liking it.

As for the Rage being a difficult ball to control on THS pattern, I have never had a problem controlling it on that pattern. In fact it is the first ball out of my bag on that pattern. For those having a problem with controlling it, I would look at the drilling layout that they have on it as well as the surface of it. In reference to a "hockey stick look" on the Rage, I have never had that on my Rage. I did have a bit of that look on my Octane, but a surface change calmed that down, even though I still don't like that particular ball.

As with any ball from any company, the wrong drilling and/or wrong surface on a ball will not give positive results.
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Steven

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Re: Ball match up issues
« Reply #13 on: August 14, 2015, 12:15:56 AM »
In reference to a "hockey stick look" on the Rage, I have never had that on my Rage. I did have a bit of that look on my Octane, but a surface change calmed that down, even though I still don't like that particular ball.

As with any ball from any company, the wrong drilling and/or wrong surface on a ball will not give positive results.

Brick, again, I'm glad you like your Rage. I know a lot of people here like it, but clearly it's not the ball for bowlers who prefer smoother reactions off the spot. It was designed by Motiv to be a big backend ball, which was validated (with an exclamation mark) by BTM in their testing. If you're not seeing it, the only reasonable explanation is that you've drilled the guts out of it.  :)
 
I drill balls for their intended purpose, and the drill on my Rage is very appropriate. It performs as designed, but it's just not my preferred reaction. Regardless, I wish you continued success with yours. 

Brickguy221

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Re: Ball match up issues
« Reply #14 on: August 14, 2015, 12:52:49 AM »

 
Brick, again, I'm glad you like your Rage. I know a lot of people here like it, but clearly it's not the ball for bowlers who prefer smoother reactions off the spot. It was designed by Motiv to be a big backend ball, which was validated (with an exclamation mark) by BTM in their testing. If you're not seeing it, the only reasonable explanation is that you've drilled the guts out of it.  :)
 
I drill balls for their intended purpose, and the drill on my Rage is very appropriate. It performs as designed, but it's just not my preferred reaction. Regardless, I wish you continued success with yours. 

Steven, as I said in my post #13 ... As with any ball from any company, the wrong drilling and/or wrong surface on a ball will not give positive results.    My Rage performs smooth off the spot, so apparently I have the right drilling and surface. The bowlers you mentioned that prefer smoother off the spot apparently don't have the right layout and surface on their Rage or else the ball simply won't match up for them no matter what.. Sometimes a ball simply won't match up with a bowler no matter how it is drilled and the surface adjusted. The Octane is sort of in that class for me. I have it workable, but it is still not a good match up for me.

Since the majority seem to like the Rage, I imagine that those that don't like it and can't get it to perform to their satisifaction regardless of the drilling and surface, simply don't match up to it. I'm sure you have had balls like that as I have also.

« Last Edit: August 14, 2015, 12:54:27 AM by Brickguy221 »
"Whenever I feel the urge to exercise I lie down until the feeling passes away"