Do you think the economy has alot to do with the decline in entries for local tournaments?

Just wanted to talk about this today, with yet another declining day on Wall Street.

Yes we all have regular attendees that participate in the tournaments but have we gotten down to just the core tourney bowlers who are committing funds to tournament play.   That is about 25 bowlers per event and maybe another 10 who trickle in and out?

Are we heading into a recession where those access funds are just to precious to take a chance?  

I dont know for sure, but I see a definite trend right now, what about you?
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Yvette
Tournament Director Triple Threat Tournaments
Triplethreat1560@aol.com

Jeff says it all.  You are NEVER going to please bowlers, just won't happen.  My point is that I think people are getting tired of donating in that area and have decided to just not participate.  Just my opinion.  

And those "core" group that bowl every week, will still continue to bowl, because like Jeff said those guys will find a way to be competitive.  Most bowlers are not talented enough to find something each and every Sunday.  Yeah guys will complain about the scoring pace, but guess what MOST of them will still be back, because most of them feel they can compete when its an easier pattern.  Of course we all have a certain style we love to see at every event that matches up to us, but the bottom line is, id rather have 50-60 guys and 60-80 brackets on a dead wall and 30 guys in them than 20-30 with 20-30 brackets and only 10-12 different guys in them.

The problem with the PBA patterns are certain guys know where to play on the lane and how the lanes should be played, but most don't and it seems the biggest thing on those patterns is who your crossing with, otherwise it can be a real long day.  I tried telling Jim Smith this about 6 months ago and now it seems his tournaments have gone to almost nothing.  I mean 7 guys for 2 squads at the quick and cheap and 44 total entries for a 3 day tournament that was advertised $5000 on 200 entries wouldn't get the house guys to bowl.  Entry fee was too high and he advertised the Chameleon pattern, so there was no chance the locals that avg 220-230 were gonna bowl.  

Im not saying all tournaments should be $30 either, because thats too cheap and theres not much money made in the tournament, however with that cheap entry fee, it allows bowlers to get in brackets that wouldn't do it when entry fees are $80-$100 and thats why they get that many brackets and most of us know in order to actually make some money bowling, you make it in the side action.

Here's the money breakdown on Lincoln Lanes tournaments

Entry fee will be $30.00 -- $6.00 bowling fee, $23.00 prize fee, $1.00 expense fee.


Now I know you guys in the city can't get lineage for $1 a game, but wouldn't the centers rather have 60 guys making $360 than 20 guys making $360.  I mean how much more do you think they would make in the snack bar area and beer sales?  I know its not the directors fault at all and im not blaming them, im just stating some things that I feel is the cause for a decline in entries.
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"Typical House Bowler"

I will speak purely from a bowlers perspective.  I am one of the "donaters" that doesn't really show up anymore to tourneys.  I want to improve my game and I am doing that through a PBA X league ($22 a week for 4 games) and practice on the PBA shots at the center every week. I average 190 right now in my PBA league and about 215-220 in my house leagues.

I don't go to tourneys because of the cost and the fact that I have entered about 15 or so toruenys over the past 2-3 seasons and not cashed once.  Most of it is because I don't bowl well enough to win, some of it was bad luck.  I don't want to drop $80 on an entry, another $40-$50 on brackets and pots and walk away emptyhanded.

It is too expensive of a "learning experience" for me.  I did it for a while figuring I would imporve and cash here and there making the money a wash overall, but it just hasn't happened.

I would be more likely to come out and bowl more on a pattern that was higher scoring, but not a carry contest, but it would have to be reasonably priced as well.  Maybe $50 for a 5 game tourney.  8 games is a lot to bowl in a row.
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Speed Kills
When in doubt, move out

Edited on 10/30/2008 9:10 AM

To follow up on Krakken and Mike......that is one of the instance to where all the side action, mainly brackets, has help deteriorate/kill scratch bowling. Krakken (or any player) sounds like a guy who may not have minded putting up $50-$80 for the entry fee.....but "he" "has" to play brackets and now it is a $150 tournament for him and losing that $150 is a much harder pill to swallow than that $50-$80 pill. He is by his own words the occasional tournament player so in losing $150 in a shot he just went from seeing you in a month or 2 to seeing you in 3-4 months.

If you go back 15 years, The Masters routinely had 100-140 entries, sometimes more. Tournaments today are thrilled if the get to just 40. (OK, so maybe not thrilled but it is a number they will take as it seems to be a high point these days). Those times, while not as bad as current, were not great economic times. Just off the 1st Iraq war, mortagage interest rates were in the neighborhood of 8%-10% (most people now are in the 5.5-6 range,which is a huge difference), so you were paying a lot more for your home thus more household expenses. BUT, you still had big entries in most tournaments. The biggest difference of 1993 vs. 2008 in scratch bowling is brackets. They were in the infancy back then....now they are a full blown cancer. They have (IMO) robbed the game of the "donator" or "marginal" player. Brackets are GREAT for those %20 and TERRIBLE for those %80 and those %80 do not have the discipline to stay away from them which has caused that 80% to become %8.

Ok, so we dont have as many bowlers as 15 years ago either.....though we do have more people today that "think" they are bowlers than 15 years ago.


Edited on 10/30/2008 11:05 AM

Edited on 10/30/2008 11:07 AM

I have to disagree Wabullets, brackets are what the 20% go for.  No one makes anyone get in brackets.  You can still pay your $50-$80 entry fee, no one is forcing you to get in the side events.  My point is in the chambersburg area, entry fees are pretty cheap so now the guy that wants to spend $60-$80 can now get in 8-10 brackets and feels they can compete because they are walled up.  Alex's tournament is a prime example of this, he kept putting out basically the same pattern and guys got tired of losing the $80 so they stopped bowling and turnouts have been terrible there and he guarantees $600 every tournament, but im not gonna drive by a tournament in chambersburg another 1 and 1/2 outta the way and have to win the tournament to make money.  Brackets give people a chance to make money without winning the tournament.  Once again though, nobody is forced to enter brackets.
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"Typical House Bowler"

I agree with Mike when people want to soley slam the brackets as the problem. People see me at quite a few events and if you see me jump in brackets, then I saw something in practice that looks real good!

As someone who runs tournaments, there aren't a ton of folks playing brackets as some think. There are like 3-5 guys that say all and the rest of the people play a number between 0-5. We have regulars who play only the pot, or only the survivals. There are a lot of people playing within their limits.

Hahn, VMSBT & 40 Boards will forgive you. LOL
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Baker...Why doesn't my ball hk?
40 Boards & A Ball Tournament Director
www.40boards.com
40 Boards is proudly supported by Storm Products & Glen Burnie Pro Shop
"The left sucks & the right is wide open!" R.I.P. Brizmo 6/15/08

for the %80 crowd, it is the same reason they play the  lottery, "get rich quick" syndrome. And just like the lottery, it turns in to "lose money quickly" situation for the %80. The lottery always comes out ahead that is why they run the lottery and in this case, the %20 is the lottery, they by and large always come out ahead.

You are right, no one forces that player to play but the mind tells him to play. The mind tells him he is that player. The mind tells he can make a lot of money quickly. After the tournament is over, the pocket/wallet says "man, see you in 4 months" instead of saying see you in a few weeks because the pocket now has no more money.

Lets compare the 2 eras....1993 vs 2008. Both had well branded organizations( Masters, Tournament Concepts)(VMSBT, 40 Boards), Both had walled/soft conditions, both had resin balls....the 2 things most people like 2 blame for todays lack of tournment action..and true, those things can build up (actually tear down a game) over that time to help contribute....but I still think the biggest diffence in that span is brackets. The sharks (%20 group) are hungrier than ever. They %80 group is unsure as ever even possibly intimidated by the scene and action and the hunger of the %20. And again, the bracket thing is just an opinion. I personally like them. I make my share at them and I dont want them to go away, but as one scratch bowlers view of where the donator/marginal player went....I think that has as much to do with it as anything....along with what Stephen said, everyday life gets put ahead of extracircular activities more these days than years past.

Brackets were around in 1993 and the Masters had them.  If you ran a tournament with zero brackets then your tournament would fold fast.  Having a $30 entry is just to get the bowlers thee for brackets and snack bar money.  1st is usually $300.  It's not a bad idea.  You have to try something different and PA has and it draws bowlers.
wildbush300.....you never answered my question about putting $2.50 from each bracket back into the prize fund.  Who says you have to take $5?