Author Topic: Good Day for the PBA (Read 7990 times)

mainzer · « **on:** January 24, 2010, 04:42:34 AM »

Well is this is a Hsitoric day for the PBA. They will be in the news for awhile now with this show.

Congrats Kelly for winning.

BTW Barnes did NOT choke today! Only missed the pocket once maybe twice only has a double to show for it? Bad carry not choking.
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"His Loyalty couldnt be bought at any price
but it could be rented remarkably cheaply"
-Inquisitor Allendyne-

Founding Father of the BR Inquisition

MainzerPower

JOE FALCO · « **Reply #31 on:** January 25, 2010, 07:50:28 AM »

Jug .. good comment!

On edit: Complete .. most MEN cannot!
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J O E - F A L C O

RIP Thong Princess/Sawbones

Edited on 1/25/2010 8:53 AM

qstick777 · « **Reply #32 on:** January 25, 2010, 07:54:08 AM »

quote:
This is why bowling is laughed at. This would never happen in any other sport.

Why? Because bowling is more about skill than actual brute strength?

We're talking about a sport (or game) in which being able to adapt to the conditions and repeat your shots is more important that how fast and strong you can throw the ball.

In this case, bowling is more comparable to billiards, darts, and shooting (guns, rifles, archery).

This isn't about whether women belong on the football or baseball field, or basketball or tennis court along side men.

Bowling isn't about competing against your opponent - it's about competing against the conditions.

michelle · « **Reply #33 on:** January 25, 2010, 08:01:13 AM »

quote:

I don''''t think it is a conditioning thing I think there are plenty of women that could get through qualifying easier than some of the guys on tour now.

My thoughts are that MOST of the women are not versatile enough to play all angles necessary in a 64 game qualifier.

My guess is that you would see more of the top women be competitive in the longer format events...remember that the PBA made the bone-headed decision to get away from the longer format that contained the 24-game heads-up match play. Yet that is the format that was used in the PWBA until the demise of the Tour during 2003. And yes, I still prefer THAT format over what the PBA uses in most events...

Edited on 1/25/2010 9:28 AM

r534me · « **Reply #34 on:** January 25, 2010, 08:17:24 AM »

quote:
quote:
I would not equate driving a vehicle with sports like golf, tennis and bowling. Not that what they do isn't amazing but you are driving a motorized vehicle. I take my hats off to all drivers -- they have more courage than all other athletes combined (except maybe the nuts in those extreme sports LOL!). Plus, for Danica especially, it's as much a team sport as an individual sport -- pit crews/teams mean so much.
While I think Danica is horrendously overrated, I also have to defend the physical aspects of auto racing. Drivers these days have finally figured out that it's in their best interest to actually be in good shape, because 1) it requires strength to wrestle the steering wheel on any car that doesn't have power steering (NASCAR has power steering, but IndyCar/F1/etc. cars don't, and occasionally the power steering does fail on NASCAR cars, don't know off-hand about endurace racing sports cars), 2) the G-forces felt in the corners are physically exhausting (IndyCars and F1 cars corner at over 4 G's), and 3) the heat inside racecars is ridiculous, upwards of 120 degrees at times, which causes you to lose several pounds of weight in sweat in just one race. So yeah, driving a car really fast for hours on end is a lot more difficult than you'd think just from a physical standpoint, not to mention how mentally tiring it is.

Just to add to the car racing information:

Lemans endurance series sports cars now have mandated air conditioning(closed cockpit cars) and most if not all have power steering. The drivers are still subjected to high G forces from corning and braking and still need their drink bottles but the temperatures are less now. They aren't as fast as open wheeled cars but they put down some pretty good lap times and depeding on the class can hit 220MPH on the longest stretches (Mulsanne) which is 2KM before the two chicanes.

As far as KK, I remember hearing on TV that she always could hit the pocket but didn't have the power to kick out the corner like the men. It appears that she found that power or pattern this week to make it all come together. Good showing.

Dan Belcher · « **Reply #35 on:** January 25, 2010, 08:46:05 AM »

quote:
quote:
quote:
I would not equate driving a vehicle with sports like golf, tennis and bowling. Not that what they do isn't amazing but you are driving a motorized vehicle. I take my hats off to all drivers -- they have more courage than all other athletes combined (except maybe the nuts in those extreme sports LOL!). Plus, for Danica especially, it's as much a team sport as an individual sport -- pit crews/teams mean so much.
While I think Danica is horrendously overrated, I also have to defend the physical aspects of auto racing. Drivers these days have finally figured out that it's in their best interest to actually be in good shape, because 1) it requires strength to wrestle the steering wheel on any car that doesn't have power steering (NASCAR has power steering, but IndyCar/F1/etc. cars don't, and occasionally the power steering does fail on NASCAR cars, don't know off-hand about endurace racing sports cars), 2) the G-forces felt in the corners are physically exhausting (IndyCars and F1 cars corner at over 4 G's), and 3) the heat inside racecars is ridiculous, upwards of 120 degrees at times, which causes you to lose several pounds of weight in sweat in just one race. So yeah, driving a car really fast for hours on end is a lot more difficult than you'd think just from a physical standpoint, not to mention how mentally tiring it is.

Just to add to the car racing information:

Lemans endurance series sports cars now have mandated air conditioning(closed cockpit cars) and most if not all have power steering. The drivers are still subjected to high G forces from corning and braking and still need their drink bottles but the temperatures are less now. They aren't as fast as open wheeled cars but they put down some pretty good lap times and depeding on the class can hit 220MPH on the longest stretches (Mulsanne) which is 2KM before the two chicanes.

And sadly they are much slower than they had the potential to be back in the 80s when the rules were much more open, and the Porsche 962 et al were just absolute <i>beasts</i> of cars. Not to mention the Mulsanne section at Le Mans used to not have chicanes and 250mph was possible. But now we're just getting off-topic.

Juggernaut · « **Reply #36 on:** January 25, 2010, 08:59:40 AM »

quote:

They can all try Juggs.....just like KK did in '06-'07. Problem is MOST will fail.

At a time when h.s. bowling and COMPETITIVE female bowling is skyrocketing why would you want to handcuff them?

I don't. I want to open up a whole world of opportunity to them. I want them to be able to compete with a field of their peers for a chance to win on the most prestigious stage in the world. I want to give them the chance to compete for enough money to actually make it worth their time, effort, and trouble.

quote:
Just because KK won a tournament? Yes she bowled great on very demanding conditions. Yes she has the mental game to post shots on t.v. on Sunday. MOST do not. I think she has the most complete game of all the women stars but to say they should all be relegated to "fish or cut bait" is unfair.

YES, because Kelly WON a tournament. It wasn't given to her, handed to her, or bestowed upon her, she went out and WON IT. If she can, why can't the rest?

Because they're "girls"? What one woman can do, others can learn how to do, even if SOME can't. Let the ones who are able compete, and let those who can't compete find something else to do. It isn't about being "fair" because life isn't "fair". If they can't compete, THEN LET THEM DO SOMETHING ELSE.

I'd love to bowl for a living, but guess what? I'm busy out here "cutting bait" myself, because that's what I'm good enough at to earn a living. Life's tough, deal with it. Not everyone is cut out to be a pro bowler.

quote:
I want to see the sport grow...not have a whole segment (and a growing segment) stifled by saying they have to compete with the men if they want to bowl on that level.

But that IS the level, isn't it? Do they wan't to be true champions, or just "the best girl"? Quit telling them they're inferior and that they can't compete. Stop harboring and nurturing the old thought patterns that say the girls aren't equal opponents and that they "just can't do it" because of their gender. Use women like Kelly, Danica, Ashley, and all that compete toe-to-toe with the guys as examples. Let THEM dream of being truly the BEST IN THE WORLD, not just "the best girl".
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Krakken · « **Reply #37 on:** January 25, 2010, 09:41:46 AM »

quote:
quote:
This is why bowling is laughed at. This would never happen in any other sport.

Why? Because bowling is more about skill than actual brute strength?

We're talking about a sport (or game) in which being able to adapt to the conditions and repeat your shots is more important that how fast and strong you can throw the ball.

In this case, bowling is more comparable to billiards, darts, and shooting (guns, rifles, archery).

This isn't about whether women belong on the football or baseball field, or basketball or tennis court along side men.

Bowling isn't about competing against your opponent - it's about competing against the conditions.

Using this comparison bowling is not a sport, it is a game. I think what Kelly did is great, and she definitely was the best bowler that week, but this does not help the PBA at all. It helps womens bowling, but hurts the PBA vs mainstream sports.

-No way Annika Sorenstam could win a PGA tourney or a major (heck she never made the cut)

-Never see a woman in the NBA ( that isn't about strength it is about stamina)

-Couple that with Tom Smallwood winning in Detroit and most of the non bowling fans look and say, hell how hard is it? You had an auto worker win a pro tournament, and now a woman win a Major Championship.

I know the difference, and so do the rest of the bowling fans, but the PBA needs to draw in more people that don't understand the sport.

This doesn't help the PBA as a whole. Couple that with the low $$$ involved. Really? $40k for winning a major? That is pathetic.
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ROTO GRIP, There is NO Substitute
Slow Feet, Soft hand = Lots of strikes

michelle · « **Reply #38 on:** January 25, 2010, 10:12:21 AM »

quote:
Using this comparison bowling is not a sport, it is a game. I think what Kelly did is great, and she definitely was the best bowler that week, but this does not help the PBA at all. It helps womens bowling, but hurts the PBA vs mainstream sports.

-No way Annika Sorenstam could win a PGA tourney or a major (heck she never made the cut)

-Never see a woman in the NBA ( that isn't about strength it is about stamina)

PGA and NBA are not really valid comparisons because strength IS an issue in both of those environments. Bowling has a defined length of court and strength is NOT a factor such as you see in golf where it IS a variable that speaks to length of shots or in the NBA where obvious size issues present issues inside the arc.

Let's face it...the basketball comparison even loses on its face given that it is not something that most GUYS could step in and do. Generally speaking, if you don't have the height, you WON'T be competing at the top level of basketball, no matter whether it is the NBA or the WNBA.

Stamina is certainly a factor in bowling. But it IS possible to score without having to overpower the lanes.

Mike James · « **Reply #39 on:** January 25, 2010, 10:28:08 AM »

What ball did Barnes throw the 1st frame and said WOW...when the ball didnt react?...then he started throwing the pure swing

completebowler · « **Reply #40 on:** January 25, 2010, 10:44:22 AM »

Juggs I think we may agree more than we realize. If you are simply saying let them compete then I'm all for it. Go through tour trials and see what happens.

However if you are saying dump the womens tour and FORCE them to bowl against the men then I don't.

Just like there is a LPGA so should the women have a bowling association all to themselves. Let them continue to do their thing and if they feel they can jump up a league then cool...go for it. Just like I can jump up from state and regionals.

Your argument of fish or cut bait would apply to the regional tour the same. If your not good enough to bowl PBA then go find something else to do. I don't agree.

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scotts33 · « **Reply #41 on:** January 25, 2010, 10:48:41 AM »

quote:
However if you are saying dump the womens tour and FORCE them to bowl against the men then I don't.

The ONLY way the Women's PBA tour the 6 stops exists is that you and I the USBC members/USBC Nat'l are paying to the tune and this is just a guess but I bet I am pretty close a cost of $1mil for the prize find and ESPN production costs for the 6 events.

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Scott

michelle · « **Reply #42 on:** January 25, 2010, 10:53:59 AM »

quote:
quote:
However if you are saying dump the womens tour and FORCE them to bowl against the men then I don't.

The ONLY way the Women's PBA tour the 6 stops exists is that you and I the USBC members/USBC Nat'l are paying to the tune and this is just a guess but I bet I am pretty close a cost of $1mil for the prize find and ESPN production costs for the 6 events.

In the archives of the PWBA section on this site, there may be an ancient thread that discussed some of the numbers we were given by the powers that be. Production costs were significant...enough so that it could not be offset by what little came in from entry fees and the half-hearted attempts made by the organization to market the PWBA. Many members felt that a stronger effort would have allowed it to work, but by the time the real depth of the woes was made known, the PWBA had been on life-support for far too long, damaging it irreparably. Once that trust was shattered, good luck ever getting it back...and that scares off potential purchasers unless they can piggyback on a known quantity (ie. the PBA).

r534me · « **Reply #43 on:** January 25, 2010, 10:55:39 AM »

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
I would not equate driving a vehicle with sports like golf, tennis and bowling. Not that what they do isn't amazing but you are driving a motorized vehicle. I take my hats off to all drivers -- they have more courage than all other athletes combined (except maybe the nuts in those extreme sports LOL!). Plus, for Danica especially, it's as much a team sport as an individual sport -- pit crews/teams mean so much.
While I think Danica is horrendously overrated, I also have to defend the physical aspects of auto racing. Drivers these days have finally figured out that it's in their best interest to actually be in good shape, because 1) it requires strength to wrestle the steering wheel on any car that doesn't have power steering (NASCAR has power steering, but IndyCar/F1/etc. cars don't, and occasionally the power steering does fail on NASCAR cars, don't know off-hand about endurace racing sports cars), 2) the G-forces felt in the corners are physically exhausting (IndyCars and F1 cars corner at over 4 G's), and 3) the heat inside racecars is ridiculous, upwards of 120 degrees at times, which causes you to lose several pounds of weight in sweat in just one race. So yeah, driving a car really fast for hours on end is a lot more difficult than you'd think just from a physical standpoint, not to mention how mentally tiring it is.

Just to add to the car racing information:

Lemans endurance series sports cars now have mandated air conditioning(closed cockpit cars) and most if not all have power steering. The drivers are still subjected to high G forces from corning and braking and still need their drink bottles but the temperatures are less now. They aren't as fast as open wheeled cars but they put down some pretty good lap times and depeding on the class can hit 220MPH on the longest stretches (Mulsanne) which is 2KM before the two chicanes.
And sadly they are much slower than they had the potential to be back in the 80s when the rules were much more open, and the Porsche 962 et al were just absolute <i>beasts</i> of cars. Not to mention the Mulsanne section at Le Mans used to not have chicanes and 250mph was possible. But now we're just getting off-topic.

Let's not forgot about the 1000HP can am cars existed. I believe the 917 was the original beast and has the record for most race miles. The 956/962 became obsolete due to the seating position of the drivers. I believe their legs had to be behind the wheels and that's what cause them to be obsolete. I was thinking 220mph in racing competition and not qualifying going through the Mulsanne straight. Are their examples of them hitting 250 in race trim?

Anyway, I am off topic as well now.

That's twice in a thread.

FBM357 · « **Reply #44 on:** January 25, 2010, 11:23:21 AM »

quote:
quote:
I guess drag racing is not a sport and you have never heard of Shirley Muldowny.

Or Ashley Force.

or Angelle Sampey (NHRA Pro-Stock Motorcycle)

Krakken · « **Reply #45 on:** January 25, 2010, 11:42:14 AM »

quote:

PGA and NBA are not really valid comparisons because strength IS an issue in both of those environments. Bowling has a defined length of court and strength is NOT a factor such as you see in golf where it IS a variable that speaks to length of shots or in the NBA where obvious size issues present issues inside the arc.

Let's face it...the basketball comparison even loses on its face given that it is not something that most GUYS could step in and do. Generally speaking, if you don't have the height, you WON'T be competing at the top level of basketball, no matter whether it is the NBA or the WNBA.

Stamina is certainly a factor in bowling. But it IS possible to score without having to overpower the lanes.

The NBA has a defined length of court, and most guys couldn't step in and compete against the PBA bowlers either.

All winning on the PGA tour is not about strength, though it does help. Corey Pavin has won multiple times and he is 5'9" 160lbs, Mike Weir is 5'8" tall and around 160. Michelle Wie is bigger than both and probably stronger and she can't make the cut.

While I applaud Kelly and her skills, and she certainly is one of the best bowlers in the country, this didn't help the PBA, it hurt the PBA in the eyes of mainstream america. It hopefully helped womens bowling though.

That is what many of the fans want to think of bowling as, a sport. It in fact isn't a sport. It is a game. Like billiards, poker and darts.

When an amateur can win the world series of poker, the pro's lose out because mainstream people say, heck it is easy even an amateur can win.

That is what the PBA faces with Tom Smallwood and Kelly Kulik winning. Bowlers know how difficult what they accomplished is, but mainstream america sees is as a joke. As evidenced by the way ESPN was poking fun at the PBA last night.
--------------------
ROTO GRIP, There is NO Substitute
Slow Feet, Soft hand = Lots of strikes

Author Topic: Good Day for the PBA (Read 7990 times)

mainzer

Good Day for the PBA

JOE FALCO

Re: Good Day for the PBA

qstick777

Re: Good Day for the PBA

michelle

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r534me

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Dan Belcher

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Juggernaut

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Krakken

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michelle

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Mike James

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completebowler

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scotts33

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michelle

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r534me

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FBM357

Re: Good Day for the PBA

Krakken

Re: Good Day for the PBA