BallReviews
General Category => PBA => Topic started by: jkiser01 on December 30, 2012, 01:44:19 PM
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I really have no issues with Scott Norton and him being gay but do they have to show his "spouse" every other shot? They never give the wife of someone on the show that much airtime, never. I was to the point of turning off the show and then at the end when his partner came out of the audience and they kissed on TV, I thought that was not in very good taste for a show on Sunday afternoon that a lot of kids watch. That is going to be fun to try to explain to children in several age ranges.
I just think ESPN went a tad bit overboard with all that today.
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That didn't bug me nearly as much as all of Randy's usual chatter... I miss Rob Stone.
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That didn't bug me nearly as much as all of Randy's usual chatter... I miss Rob Stone.
That's true.. That new guy and Randy are horrible..
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Glad I missed the show today.
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I too was not happy when the so called husband came out of the stands and kissed his Wife? I have watched bowling for over 50 years and would much rather not have seen that.
Walter couldn't have thrown it much better either. :-\
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The heterosexual bowlers' wives are frequently captured on camera. They all sit in the same spot near the side of the lane. It seemed more frequent, but it wasn't.
I agree that it's a little strange, and truthfully, I'm not the biggest proponent of gay marriage, and the instinctual disgust of two men kissing was there, but I rooted for Norton all day. It's not a gay victory; it's an awesome victory for the dominant bowler. He performed amazingly in the last game and deserved to win.
WRWJr. should've let his ball roll more in front of the pocket. His carry was horrible, but some better entry angle would have been useful.
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I agree the situation shoud not be treated any differently...they, the PBA are merely trying to exploit the situation as usual to create more hopeful exposure...
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I agree! Let the guy be gay, but come on ESPN was basically promoting it! I know the PBA is starving for viewers but I don't see this helping at all!
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I, too, would rather not have been exposed to the post victory activities of Mr. Norton and his "partner".
While I understand they have the right to be who they are, I still believe that it is controversial enough that it should've been edited so as not to show the "extra curricular" activity.
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Normal? We don't hear a 2 minute personal interview about coming out of the closet or how how it feels to be a heterosexual in bowling or seeing to two men kiss. Nothing normal there.
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Bunch of closed minded cave men, who cares. Kids do, say, and see way worse nowadays.
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Wow,
We are still a closeted society! I applaud him! He threw the ball well, won and was congratulated by his SPOUSE. Pete kisses his wife, Billy O', Sean Rash has his wife and dad. . . I guess I don't see it. There's crap all over television and video games that our kids shouldn't watch or play and we pick this to be the topic of censory(if that's a word). I am fine with explaining that two people of the same sex can love each other as much as mommy and daddy do. There shouldn't be separate rules for affection for the pba telecast. I'm sure the good ol boys here would be hot for say Stephanie Nation and Diandra Asbaty sharing a kiss on tv though, because that's more appealing right?
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Exactly, if Diandra Asbaty & Stefanie Nation engaged in a tv smooch, these same guys would be slapping their hogs. The self righteousness is absurd.
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the instinctual disgust of two men kissing was there
This!
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I also am glad that I missed this. You can call me closed minded all you want, but I will live with what is my sense of right and wrong. And that is wrong.
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So if Belmo won and his wife came down to kiss him would that be wrong? No. So why should it be for Nortons spouse? I don't care much for Norton but thats his partner.
If you don't want your kid exposed to "gays" then don't send them to school or out in public in general. It's a part of life no need to baby your kids from the world.
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Congrats to Scott Norton, he bowled very well, deserved to win
I anxiously await the release of the Enigma, love the way that ball looked
Another great Ebonite product by the looks of it
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It only an issue because Scott Norton is gay and his spouse was in attendance. Its very closed minded to say that because it isnt like Norton wins frequently and its a constant thing. He manned up threw great shots and had a great look all finals. The story shouldnt be about Norton's sexuality or the small peck on the lips from his spouse after a grueling tourney win. He made great shots in an emotional win. It's just disappointing that in 2012, we're still in 1950. Lets grow up people.
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I don't care one way or the other if he is gay, thats his choice.
But what I do care about is, I would rather not see it, keep it to yourself.
And I think that is a grown up enough response.
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wow. What a surprise. People on ballreviews show no tolerance for others that are different from themselves, feel threatened somehow by two gay people on television, and show that they still have a lot of evolving to do. Shocking. The most disturbing part of the whole thing is that in 2013 there are still people like the posters in this thread who think this way. BTW, the kids needing protecting? Sorry, but to be gay or lesbian is cool in school these days. Get a clue.
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Kind of scary some of the comments in here.
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I don't care one way or the other if he is gay, thats his choice.
But what I do care about is, I would rather not see it, keep it to yourself.
And I think that is a grown up enough response.
I dont know whats more offensive, your personal stance, or the fact that you think its a grown up response. Whats next ? Women cant vote? Blacks cant drink from the same fountain as you?
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I don't care one way or the other if he is gay, thats his choice.
But what I do care about is, I would rather not see it, keep it to yourself.
And I think that is a grown up enough response.
I dont know whats more offensive, your personal stance, or the fact that you think its a grown up response. Whats next ? Women cant vote? Blacks cant drink from the same fountain as you?
Thats my choice, just as you have your choice.
And what do Women and African Americans have to do with this.
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I said the same! "wow do they have to show his "spouse" every other shot"! Belmo's wife got like two brief shots! What they do in their "private" lives is their business, but don't push the crap like ESPN tried to do! Fortunately, I recorded it and deleted it as soon as the match was over, fearing ESPN would for sure include some shot of this!
BTW, glad I was never "cool" in school!
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I know the PBA/ESPN were trying to exploit this, but they didn't show Craig anymore than they showed Christi when Bill O'Neill was on his tear a year or two ago.
Just happy for Scott, he was the best of my generation of youth bowlers, and to see him recognizing his potential is great.
I guess I'll have to stick with being the better lawyer.
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I don't care one way or the other if he is gay, thats his choice.
But what I do care about is, I would rather not see it, keep it to yourself.
And I think that is a grown up enough response.
I dont know whats more offensive, your personal stance, or the fact that you think its a grown up response. Whats next ? Women cant vote? Blacks cant drink from the same fountain as you?
Lol! Drink of water Boss?.....
Too hilarious. Apparently, we are in 1950 and people in white hoods are going to throw bricks through my window and burn crosses on my front yard. If it were two women, people wouldnt be clambering to "protect the children" moreso than how hot it looked on tv. It wasnt like he open mouth tongued his spouse. I think it shows growth and acceptance in the world when it can be shown that after a gruelling tournament someone can take comfort in the person who supported him throughout. Gay or not, it was tough and what's lost is he made great shots to win.
We celebrate and over hype Sean Rash's "rivalry" with Belmo but something like this we shun because we are too homophobic to understand the emotions and realities of others. Yes everyone is entitled to their opinions but some of this is homophobia rather than opinion.
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Yeah, well that's how our favorite hypocrite, sevenpin operates. One minute he brags how he was a sargeant in the armed forces allegedly protecting the rights of ALL Americans no matter what race, creed, color, or sexual orientation. Next he's bitching about some citizens expressing those freedoms and rights during an exibition on television which unless I'm mistaken is something else he served for...to protect freedom of the press. Why don't you troglodytes free your minds, join the 21st Century and stop worrying about shit that has no direct effect on you or your families. In other words, grow up.
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Yeah, well that's how our favorite hypocrite, sevenpin operates. One minute he brags how he was a sargeant in the armed forces allegedly protecting the rights of ALL Americans no matter what race, creed, color, or sexual orientation. Next he's bitching about some citizens expressing those freedoms and rights during an exibition on television which unless I'm mistaken is something else he served for...to protect freedom of the press. Why don't you troglodytes free your minds, join the 21st Century and stop worrying about shit that has no direct effect on you or your families. In other words, grow up.
Wow my favorite troll pops his head up.
Following me around now? Don't I feel special.
Just as long you don't call me COOL in school these days.
Sorry about this guys some people don't know when to leave it alone, or put it in the proper place.
Like the Misc. Non Bowling Forum.
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I don't care one way or the other if he is gay, thats his choice.
But what I do care about is, I would rather not see it, keep it to yourself.
And I think that is a grown up enough response.
I dont know whats more offensive, your personal stance, or the fact that you think its a grown up response. Whats next ? Women cant vote? Blacks cant drink from the same fountain as you?
Thats my choice, just as you have your choice.
And what do Women and African Americans have to do with this.
My mistake, youre not articulate enough to connect the dots.
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Normally, the announcer says "that's Bill's wife, Christie," not "Bill is straight, and thats his wife, Christie."
Don't treat Scott and Craig differently. Just say "that's Scott's husband, Craig." and anyone who has trouble figuring out he's gay is missing a couple brain lobes.
Congrats to Scott, and it really sucks that such a big deal was made about this instead of Scott's fantastic bowling.
The telecast seemed very awkward to me from the standpoint of the announcers. They didn't seem to know what to say when they showed Craig so often.
Every other spouse on tour is there to kiss their husband after a win, and there is no reason Scott shouldn't be afforded the same thing. He shouldn't have to hide, and the world should focus on what matters (the bowling) instead of shining a glaring spotlight on it.
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I don't care one way or the other if he is gay, thats his choice.
But what I do care about is, I would rather not see it, keep it to yourself.
And I think that is a grown up enough response.
I agree.
See, our culture has already picked homosexuality as the "right" side, and any sort of opposition to it is considered "backwards" and "outdated".
There's nothing wrong with gay people. Scott Norton bowled excellently. But, if someone disagrees with homosexual culture, that person should not be deemed "bigoted". Really, we should not be forced to like everybody. So long as individuals do not commit acts of violence against others, there's nothing wrong with personal view points.
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I don't care one way or the other if he is gay, thats his choice.
But what I do care about is, I would rather not see it, keep it to yourself.
And I think that is a grown up enough response.
I dont know whats more offensive, your personal stance, or the fact that you think its a grown up response. Whats next ? Women cant vote? Blacks cant drink from the same fountain as you?
Thats my choice, just as you have your choice.
And what do Women and African Americans have to do with this.
My mistake, youre not articulate enough to connect the dots.
Oh I can connect the dots but you are getting a little carried away with your examples.
And the good thing is, this is the USA so we can each have a choice on how we feel about a subject without getting beat over the head with it.
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Normally, the announcer says "that's Bill's wife, Christie," not "Bill is straight, and thats his wife, Christie."
Don't treat Scott and Craig differently. Just say "that's Scott's husband, Craig." and anyone who has trouble figuring out he's gay is missing a couple brain lobes.
Congrats to Scott, and it really sucks that such a big deal was made about this instead of Scott's fantastic bowling.
The telecast seemed very awkward to me from the standpoint of the announcers. They didn't seem to know what to say when they showed Craig so often.
Every other spouse on tour is there to kiss their husband after a win, and there is no reason Scott shouldn't be afforded the same thing. He shouldn't have to hide, and the world should focus on what matters (the bowling) instead of shining a glaring spotlight on it.
+1000. How many times do they show Sean Rash's wife? He should be afforded the same rights and freedoms of expression as anyone else.
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I'm sure the good ol boys here would be hot for say Stephanie Nation and Diandra Asbaty sharing a kiss on tv though, because that's more appealing right?
+1
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Here is my take: I think they (ESPN) gave Scott the same respect as anybody else that makes the show. They announced Belmonte's family as well as the Bahrain team more than once. Scott and his "spouse" were mentioned more than once simply because he bowled the most games. I am sure if Belmo was bowling from the 4th position and bowled all 3 games you would have seen his spouse/family quite a bit as well between shots.
As parents, we cant be afraid of stuff like this. My son saw 2 girls kissing at a bowling center 2 weeks ago. Am I supposed to forbid him from going to that center again for fear the 2 homosexual females are going to show up again? I dont plan on shutting my son out of something he enjoys doing (bowling) just because of what he saw 2 weeks ago.
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BINGO!!!!!!
I also am glad that I missed this. You can call me closed minded all you want, but I will live with what is my sense of right and wrong. And that is wrong.
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I don't care one way or the other if he is gay, thats his choice.
But what I do care about is, I would rather not see it, keep it to yourself.
And I think that is a grown up enough response.
I agree.
See, our culture has already picked homosexuality as the "right" side, and any sort of opposition to it is considered "backwards" and "outdated".
There's nothing wrong with gay people. Scott Norton bowled excellently. But, if someone disagrees with homosexual culture, that person should not be deemed "bigoted". Really, we should not be forced to like everybody. So long as individuals do not commit acts of violence against others, there's nothing wrong with personal view points.
Exactly. +1000
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Exactly, if Diandra Asbaty & Stefanie Nation engaged in a tv smooch, these same guys would be slapping their hogs. The self righteousness is absurd.
Slapping their hogs??? LMAO!!! Thats great. Just to throw this out there....I wonder if Diandra and Belmo engaged in any slapping as much time as they spend together. Maybe he put his shrimp on her barbie???? I doubt it though. Just trying to be funny.
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Norton bowled extremely well but I hope if he wins another one he doesn't cry the way he did today, he squealed like a little kid. I can see getting teary eyed and emotional but not like he did but congrats for winning.
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Summary. Scott bowled great and performed under stress. No we cannot shield or hide or kids from the world. We teach them what is right and wrong and when they are old enough hopefully they make the right decisions on everything in life. Everyone is entitled to his/her beliefs, so neither side is right or wrong. However, ESPN is the real winner here. This is want they wanted 3 pages of discussion about the telecast. Would anyone still be talking about it otherwise. I have my beliefs and like anyone else don't like others (ESPN) trying to force theirs on me!
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I value my right to disagree with his lifestyle choice, as much as I value his right to choose. I was pulling for Walter Ray from the start, and even more because I did not want the gay guy to win. Especially since they were using a bowling show as a platform for gay rights. This is not what I want my two boys to see on ESPN during a bowling show.
Why should he be applauded for coming out of the closet? I say he should have been criticized for being a fag.
Yea, I know "fag" is not the politically correct term, but that is what he is.
And for all of you pea brains that are attempting to equate my and others disdain for gay lifestyle, please explain in rational terms how you make such an obtruse comparison. Slavery/racisim vs. two men kissing/marrying each other.
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Scott was using the hammer first blood the final game
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Norton bowled extremely well but I hope if he wins another one he doesn't cry the way he did today, he squealed like a little kid. I can see getting teary eyed and emotional but not like he did but congrats for winning.
He was a little over the top with his reaction.I give him credit, he bowled great, coming from behind each match(I know what you're thinking,get your mind out of the gutter!)
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I value my right to disagree with his lifestyle choice, as much as I value his right to choose. I was pulling for Walter Ray from the start, and even more because I did not want the gay guy to win. Especially since they were using a bowling show as a platform for gay rights. This is not what I want my two boys to see on ESPN during a bowling show.
Why should he be applauded for coming out of the closet? I say he should have been criticized for being a fag.
Yea, I know "fag" is not the politically correct term, but that is what he is.
And for all of you pea brains that are attempting to equate my and others disdain for gay lifestyle, please explain in rational terms how you make such an obtruse comparison. Slavery/racisim vs. two men kissing/marrying each other.
I value my right to disagree with his lifestyle choice, as much as I value his right to choose. I was pulling for Walter Ray from the start, and even more because I did not want the gay guy to win. Especially since they were using a bowling show as a platform for gay rights. This is not what I want my two boys to see on ESPN during a bowling show.
Why should he be applauded for coming out of the closet? I say he should have been criticized for being a fag.
Yea, I know "fag" is not the politically correct term, but that is what he is.
And for all of you pea brains that are attempting to equate my and others disdain for gay lifestyle, please explain in rational terms how you make such an obtruse comparison. Slavery/racisim vs. two men kissing/marrying each other.
Obtruse? Or did you mean obtuse? Anyway, I hope both your sons grow up to be gay, just to stick it to you.
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That didn't bug me nearly as much as all of Randy's usual chatter... I miss Rob Stone.
That's true.. That new guy and Randy are horrible..
I think that Lon McEachern is actually a lot better than Gary Thorne who did the shows last season...
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That didn't bug me nearly as much as all of Randy's usual chatter... I miss Rob Stone.
That's true.. That new guy and Randy are horrible..
I think that Lon McEachern is actually a lot better than Gary Thorne who did the shows last season...
I agree. I think he's a compromise between old style announcing and Rob Stone.
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Regardless if you are for the gay lifestyle or not, I have to give Scott Norton a lot of credit in how he bowled today. He made the ball change when he needed to, and bowled well in the clutch. That is just like any other champion on the tour.
As for the gay lifestyle, I personally am not and would never be gay. But, I'm not going to tell people that they can't be either. It's all personal choice. We can't shield the world from it. The reality is that more and more will come out in the future, both men and women. Let's remember what all of us here on this site watch the shows for and that is the talent of the bowlers themselves.
So Scott is gay. Big deal- I really don't care. I look at the fact that he went through 2 established champions in WRWJ and Belmo and a really good international talent in Fawad Abdullah earlier today. Abdullah could have easily won the match if he didn't throw an open late. His ball reaction with the Defiant Soul was good. WRWJ would have potentially won that match if he didn't have 6 straight frames of 9/.
In the end, Scott did exactly what he had to do- made the right ball change in the second game, and made sure to throw strikes in the clutch to have every opportunity to win. Belmo ended up with a bad break. Had Scott not performed in the 10th, we could easily be talking about how Belmo won his 4th title today instead.
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Dude bowled his ass off today!
It would be easy to check for a double standard, check last weeks show and count the number of times the camera cut to Mika's wife and compare. It seemed about the same to me.
As for his crying, I'm certain I have seen Norm Duke crying and squealing over a win.
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And there's the problem. ESPN didn't pick a "side" and they certainly weren't putting on a "platform for the gay life style", that's just your insecurity and bigotry speaking.. They accurately showed and reported the circumstances of all the competitors. The less-enlightened and less-evolved on here have made it a choosing of sides due the their personal immaturity and lack of ability to process things different from them.
So long as individuals do not commit acts of violence against others, there's nothing wrong with personal view points.
The above is true. Have your viewpoints. That goes for gay people also. Here's an idea, why not just leave others alone. Scott Norton's lifestyle hurts no one on this site or anywhere else. If you want to show your ignorance and intolerance by commenting, please, go ahead.
Milo, good point about Duke. He has cried on television more than anybody. Not too many people think less of him for it. Funny how that works.
I don't care one way or the other if he is gay, thats his choice.
But what I do care about is, I would rather not see it, keep it to yourself.
And I think that is a grown up enough response.
I agree.
See, our culture has already picked homosexuality as the "right" side, and any sort of opposition to it is considered "backwards" and "outdated".
There's nothing wrong with gay people. Scott Norton bowled excellently. But, if someone disagrees with homosexual culture, that person should not be deemed "bigoted". Really, we should not be forced to like everybody. So long as individuals do not commit acts of violence against others, there's nothing wrong with personal view points.
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Ive been wondering how in the world Obama got put back into office since November. Wow I now see after reading the majority of these comments from around the country. Espn probably couldnt legally take the kiss out, but they sure as hell didn't have to do a 2 minute interview with him about being gay. Leave crap like that for dateline or 20/20 or Jerry Springer for that matter. There has not once been a single interview about any players sexual orientation. Why start now? Why not talk about lane conditions, injuries, bowling ball reactions, anything that actually pertained to bowling.
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Ive been wondering how in the world Obama got put back into office since November. Wow I now see after reading the majority of these comments from around the country. Espn probably couldnt legally take the kiss out, but they sure as hell didn't have to do a 2 minute interview with him about being gay. Leave crap like that for dateline or 20/20 or Jerry Springer for that matter. There has not once been a single interview about any players sexual orientation. Why start now? Why not talk about lane conditions, injuries, bowling ball reactions, anything that actually pertained to bowling.
Exactly. Live and let live, but there is no place on a bowling telecast for a 2 minute spot on someone's sexual orientation. It should be treated matter-of-factly as the non issue it is.
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Shameless exploitation typical of the PBA to try and create interest where there is none
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Have to disagree, Rico. To some on here, even a 20 second mention of the situation is too much due to their bias and intolerance. To most people it wasn't a problem. To the intolerant and threatened.......it's a big deal.
Shameless exploitation typical of the PBA to try and create interest where there is none
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Ive been wondering how in the world Obama got put back into office since November. Wow I now see after reading the majority of these comments from around the country. Espn probably couldnt legally take the kiss out, but they sure as hell didn't have to do a 2 minute interview with him about being gay. Leave crap like that for dateline or 20/20 or Jerry Springer for that matter. There has not once been a single interview about any players sexual orientation. Why start now? Why not talk about lane conditions, injuries, bowling ball reactions, anything that actually pertained to bowling.
Exactly. Live and let live, but there is no place on a bowling telecast for a 2 minute spot on someone's sexual orientation. It should be treated matter-of-factly as the non issue it is.
I agree 100%, like I said earlier I could care less if he is gay.
But don't make a PBA bowling telecast a platform for someones sexual orientation. Its a bowling show nothing more , nothing less.
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After watching the telecast, again. I saw no platform for gay rights. The showed Craig twice in the first match (Tim Mack twice for Abdullah), twice in the second (WRW mother once), once in the finals Belmo's family once (my assumption because of the uninterrupted match), and the kissed and huged at the end and it was only shown again after the replay of Belmo's first shot in the tenth then Belmo shook Nortons hand. There was no platform or overly aggressive push for gay rights. The interview afterward, Norton thanked his support system which included Tony Reyes, His family and friends and his spouse. It stayed bowling oriented and it wasnt like Norton tongued his spouse down.
Anyone that has a problem with that is looking for something negative to say. And this is the reason why kids have problems with admitting their feelings about their choice. Yes we have the freedom to do and say what we feel within the limits of the law, but i think some abuse that right to share their own insecurities and pass them them off as opinions. Belmo wins, this isnt even a discussion. WRW wins, we continue on about how he's the G.O.A.T. Abdullah wins, we share his courageous story about his adversities with injury to win. Why is Norton so different? If a lesbian kissed her spouse on tv and cried after a win, we would be sharing how hot that looked on tv.
Again, lets grow up people. Way to take away from a hard fought victory guys.
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If they weren't promoting it then why did they even bring the fact that he was gay up? If it was nothing out of their ordinary broadcast procedure why did they have to make mention of it?
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If he had femininely screamed "carry please" one more time I think I would've barfed. It was like a bad Talladega Nights version of the PBA.
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Because his spouse was in the audience. They didnt mention it during his last win, it was in an article after he won that everyone knew for sure. Better question is why do you care? What do you have against gay people that someone who shares the same rights as you, cant display public affection?
Again how many times did we see and hear from Sean Rashs wife last year, how many times did they show Billy O's wife when he won?
Yet, Norm Duke, Tom Hess, PDW, and many others have cried on tv but, no one says anything about that. Only Scott Norton gets picked on for crying on TV and kissing his spouse after a grueling match. Again grown up, be honest and explain to your children what they are seeing. Im pretty sure they've seen a lot worse than that on tv.
If they weren't promoting it then why did they even bring the fact that he was gay up? If it was nothing out of their ordinary broadcast procedure why did they have to make mention of it?
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I care because the PBA is all but extinct. Publicity like this is the last thing it needs in my opinion but hey maybe I'm wrong. I would say most of ESPNs viewers are heterosexual males who want to see "sports". Sunday was just another argument for Bowling's critics to say bowling isn't a sport. Just another reason Bowling's top players make 6 figures and other sports mediocre players make millions.
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Whether it's their candidates getting crushed in the recent elections, or 2 guys kissing on the approach, I love anything that makes Republicans squirm
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After watching the telecast, again. I saw no platform for gay rights. The showed Craig twice in the first match (Tim Mack twice for Abdullah), twice in the second (WRW mother once), once in the finals Belmo's family once (my assumption because of the uninterrupted match), and the kissed and huged at the end and it was only shown again after the replay of Belmo's first shot in the tenth then Belmo shook Nortons hand. There was no platform or overly aggressive push for gay rights. The interview afterward, Norton thanked his support system which included Tony Reyes, His family and friends and his spouse. It stayed bowling oriented and it wasnt like Norton tongued his spouse down.
Anyone that has a problem with that is looking for something negative to say. And this is the reason why kids have problems with admitting their feelings about their choice. Yes we have the freedom to do and say what we feel within the limits of the law, but i think some abuse that right to share their own insecurities and pass them them off as opinions. Belmo wins, this isnt even a discussion. WRW wins, we continue on about how he's the G.O.A.T. Abdullah wins, we share his courageous story about his adversities with injury to win. Why is Norton so different? If a lesbian kissed her spouse on tv and cried after a win, we would be sharing how hot that looked on tv.
Again, lets grow up people. Way to take away from a hard fought victory guys.
This makes too much sense. Thus, the brain dead ogres in this thread will bypass your post.
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Lol! I know NF. But, it is what it is.
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Because some ignorant homophobe like you brought up him being gay when he won two years ago to try to diminish the accomplishment. Notice that nobody who knows him felt uncomfortable about it, from the audience, to his fellow bowlers, to Belmonte himself who had no problem with a congratulatory hug. Norton being gay was news only to an ignorant bigot such as yourself.
Again, there was no platform being shown by ESPN. Too suggest the PBA was exploiting the situation for ratings is just ludicrous. What the PBA is banking on is the team competition, not showing a bowler's significant other.
If they weren't promoting it then why did they even bring the fact that he was gay up? If it was nothing out of their ordinary broadcast procedure why did they have to make mention of it?
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Jesus, you really are ignorant, aren't you. Do you really need it explained to you how the very nature of where bowling is conducted will limit the gate and hence the money available? Do you really need it explained to you that bowling is a niche sport? Are you really this ignorant?
I care because the PBA is all but extinct. Publicity like this is the last thing it needs in my opinion but hey maybe I'm wrong. I would say most of ESPNs viewers are heterosexual males who want to see "sports". Sunday was just another argument for Bowling's critics to say bowling isn't a sport. Just another reason Bowling's top players make 6 figures and other sports mediocre players make millions.
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I knew this would blow up as soon as Scott won. I've sat back and have read the thread and really don't have any extra points to make that weren't already covered by two of the most sensible voices in it, Northface and Rightcomplex.
For all of you that think "this is giving the PBA a black eye", do you honestly think that anyone is going to "abandon ship" and stop supporting the PBA because of this show? C'mon, get real. You don't have to agree with whether "homosexuality is right" or not because I'm sure everyone in this thread does or has done something in their everyday life that "isn't right". It could be drinking, drugs, violence, verbal abuse, discrimination, theft, talking on their cellphone while driving, rolling through a stop sign. Who's definition of right dictates more meaning over something else that by society norms isn't right?
Everyone has a right to do their own thing and enjoy success with their family regardless of sexual preference, race, or religious beliefs. What if Fawaz Abdullah ran the ladder and thanked Allah on camera? Would anyone here have a problem with that? What does that say about you?
Tolerance and the ability to coexist goes a long way and speaks a lot on your character. It may not mean anything to any of the people in this thread, and I really don't care if it does or not, but I have lost a lot of respect for some of the people on this site in general. People whom I've read opinions from and valued insight from since 1999 when I first joined here.
We're all entitled to our opinions and I can respect the gall of some of you to voice your opinions. The slurs and prejudice, however is so evident in some of your words that I can't help but feel more ashamed everyday to be a part of the lessening community of people called "bowlers".
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This ignorance and intolerance is pervasive thru our entire society, not just bowling. It's just bowlers, or at least the ones I know, never broached the subject as they only cared how a guy acted and bowled on the lanes. None of this other stuff mattered. Guess that's why our society is getting to be more and more of a joke.
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I don't like reaction shots of audience members EVER in PBA telecasts (or other sporting events), so I could do without seeing anyone's spouse applauding or smiling or casting evil eyes, etc. Unfortunately for me, TV directors vehemently disagree with my stance; hence, we'll always see these kinds of reactions on TV.
Gay marriage/partnerships are here to stay, so people who don't like it will need to accept seeing it more and more often.
Personally, I strongly believe that being gay is NOT a lifestyle "choice" - you are either born gay or you are not born gay, just as you a born a teacher, a natural leader, a psychopath, an artist, etc. Lifestyle only enforces and makes it easier or tougher for your natural born instincts to appear and develop, but it doesn't change who or what you are deep inside. JMHO.
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I've known that Scott Norton is gay for quite some time and I have absolutely no problem with that. However, I have to admit, I was a little uncomfortable watching the show yesterday. I understand ESPN was trying to afford Scott and his family the same courtesies as any other bowler, especially because when he was on the show in 2010, they seemed to intentionally ignore that whole thing, but it just seemed like they overdid it. Maybe that's unfair, but that's just the way it felt for me.
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I say that man kissing etc. a man is wrong and that make's me intolerant? You say man sleeping with another man is ok and they have the right to choose.
Ok, you can be right in your own mind if that makes you happy or gay. I will be intolerant till I die.
ESPN applauded this guy for coming out of the closet as though this was a good thing. Why is that?
I watch bowling to watch bowling; not to listen to gay propaganda. If gay dude is on the show again I will be watching something else. I do not think that I will be the only one changing the channel.
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Ignorant huh? Well just why is bowling a "niche sport"??? Why can't it be more?? Im sure at some point in history a game called football that you played with your hands was a niche as well. Everyone in here bashes ESPN for their coverage and when I make a comment about mentioning someones sexual preference being inappropriate suddenly they are Gods gift to bowling. I think CSS does a much better job with college bowling than ESPN with the PBA.
ONCE AGAIN I STATE: I have no problem with the kiss! I find it sick but I realize ESPN would be discriminating to have stopped it or edited it. However, they did not have to put him on a pedestal because "he recently came out of the closet" or however they put it. You can call me ignorant, conservative, Christian or what ever you wanna call me but sexual preference should not ever be mentioned in a PBA telecast.
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Ignorant huh? Well just why is bowling a "niche sport"??? Why can't it be more?? Im sure at some point in history a game called football that you played with your hands was a niche as well. Everyone in here bashes ESPN for their coverage and when I make a comment about mentioning someones sexual preference being inappropriate suddenly they are Gods gift to bowling. I think CSS does a much better job with college bowling than ESPN with the PBA.
ONCE AGAIN I STATE: I have no problem with the kiss! I find it sick but I realize ESPN would be discriminating to have stopped it or edited it. However, they did not have to put him on a pedestal because "he recently came out of the closet" or however they put it. You can call me ignorant, conservative, Christian or what ever you wanna call me but sexual preference should not ever be mentioned in a PBA telecast.
Arone, I get exactly where you are coming from, but some people are just to rigid in there beliefs. Its either there way or the highway and no in between.
I will agree if the PBA did this just to get people into talking about bowling or the PBA it sure has worked.
But this is a subject that is always going to bring a lot of different view points, and not just one view point is necessarily correct.
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So when will the rainbow bowling bags go on sale?
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Im not even going to read the entire thread. From what i see, most of you that have a problem with his sexual preference are obviously living under rock somewhere...WHO cares that he is gay...it has nothing to with who he is. Half of the keyboard pounders on here need to get a day job...sheesh...
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Yeah, tool, and there are gay men playing football in the NFL, baseball in the majors, hockey, basketball, EVERY SPORT. Your analogy is found to be lacking.
Ignorant huh? Well just why is bowling a "niche sport"??? Why can't it be more?? Im sure at some point in history a game called football that you played with your hands was a niche as well. Everyone in here bashes ESPN for their coverage and when I make a comment about mentioning someones sexual preference being inappropriate suddenly they are Gods gift to bowling. I think CSS does a much better job with college bowling than ESPN with the PBA.
ONCE AGAIN I STATE: I have no problem with the kiss! I find it sick but I realize ESPN would be discriminating to have stopped it or edited it. However, they did not have to put him on a pedestal because "he recently came out of the closet" or however they put it. You can call me ignorant, conservative, Christian or what ever you wanna call me but sexual preference should not ever be mentioned in a PBA telecast.
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It was a gay show. Who cares, I was too busy watching the NFL. No men kissed but it was still great to see Romo choke.
Keep putting the PBA against the NFL and I will keep watching the NFL.
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This ignorance and intolerance is pervasive thru our entire society, not just bowling. It's just bowlers, or at least the ones I know, never broached the subject as they only cared how a guy acted and bowled on the lanes. None of this other stuff mattered. Guess that's why our society is getting to be more and more of a joke.
It's really kind of surprising to me that here on the last day of 2012,that a gay bowler merits six pages of discussion.I thought we were past this as a society.
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This ignorance and intolerance is pervasive thru our entire society, not just bowling. It's just bowlers, or at least the ones I know, never broached the subject as they only cared how a guy acted and bowled on the lanes. None of this other stuff mattered. Guess that's why our society is getting to be more and more of a joke.
It's really kind of surprising to me that here on the last day of 2012,that a gay bowler merits six pages of discussion.I thought we were past this as a society.
You would think, but the internet is the supreme sounding board for a lot of these bigots to remain shrouded in anonymity.
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This ignorance and intolerance is pervasive thru our entire society, not just bowling. It's just bowlers, or at least the ones I know, never broached the subject as they only cared how a guy acted and bowled on the lanes. None of this other stuff mattered. Guess that's why our society is getting to be more and more of a joke.
It's really kind of surprising to me that here on the last day of 2012,that a gay bowler merits six pages of discussion.I thought we were past this as a society.
AS long as we include the bigots against christian Tim....tebow
.
Cav
You would think, but the internet is the supreme sounding board for a lot of these bigots to remain shrouded in anonymity.
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Doesn't matter if you hated the kiss or liked it, bottom line is the show was 90 minutes long and the kiss lasted a millisecond. There shouldn't be this big a deal made about it. Yes, I admit, I was taken aback for a brief moment when I saw it, but it was quickly forgotten. To the posters that said ESPN is promoting gayness with showing the kiss, you're wrong. If they showed it on Sportscenter 1.5 billion times and Steven A. and Skip Bayless gave us their "opinion", then you have a valid point.
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If Steven A. and Skip Bayless gave us their "opinion", then you have a valid point.
PLEASE don't give these guys any ideas.
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If Steven A. and Skip Bayless gave us their "opinion", then you have a valid point.
PLEASE don't give these guys any ideas.
I just don"t want to hear what Wilbon,Cornheiser,or heaven forbid,Rome's opinion on the subject.
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If you don't want to hear sports talks opinions on something then don't watch or tune in. They get paid to talk sports. That is the only chance that bowling is likely to be brought up on any of those shows because it will not be due to the actual bowling.
Bowlers are bowlings only demographic. No one else in the sports world cares.
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Yeah, tool, and there are gay men playing football in the NFL, baseball in the majors, hockey, basketball, EVERY SPORT. Your analogy is found to be lacking.
Ignorant huh? Well just why is bowling a "niche sport"??? Why can't it be more?? Im sure at some point in history a game called football that you played with your hands was a niche as well. Everyone in here bashes ESPN for their coverage and when I make a comment about mentioning someones sexual preference being inappropriate suddenly they are Gods gift to bowling. I think CSS does a much better job with college bowling than ESPN with the PBA.
ONCE AGAIN I STATE: I have no problem with the kiss! I find it sick but I realize ESPN would be discriminating to have stopped it or edited it. However, they did not have to put him on a pedestal because "he recently came out of the closet" or however they put it. You can call me ignorant, conservative, Christian or what ever you wanna call me but sexual preference should not ever be mentioned in a PBA telecast.
My analogy is that you don't hear ESPN going and interviewing NFL MLB NBA players on the sidelines about being gay! Can you not read? For the FORTH and final time the issue is not Scott being gay or even him kissing his "husband!" the issue I have is that ESPN treated his coming out the same way they treated Belmo's televised 300! Go back and watch the recording. They went into the two interviews the same way. They treated his coming out the way they treat everyone else's milestones of their career! Why not go back 2010 title or some of his other accomplishments instead of coming out of the closet?
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Please, your pathetic backtracking is nauseating. Now you don't have a problem with them kissing (even though it's sick in your words), you just have a problem with ESPN. No, bigot, no. YOU go back and watch. In your mind they are doing that because that is what you want to see because that is how you think. Newsflash, Scott Norton is the first man in a relatively popular sport and regulary televised to come out in a long time. Last one to do it was Greg Louganis in Olympic diving. So they ask him about it because it takes GUTS knowing that he'll face the howls and indignation of bigots like you.
Yeah, tool, and there are gay men playing football in the NFL, baseball in the majors, hockey, basketball, EVERY SPORT. Your analogy is found to be lacking.
Ignorant huh? Well just why is bowling a "niche sport"??? Why can't it be more?? Im sure at some point in history a game called football that you played with your hands was a niche as well. Everyone in here bashes ESPN for their coverage and when I make a comment about mentioning someones sexual preference being inappropriate suddenly they are Gods gift to bowling. I think CSS does a much better job with college bowling than ESPN with the PBA.
ONCE AGAIN I STATE: I have no problem with the kiss! I find it sick but I realize ESPN would be discriminating to have stopped it or edited it. However, they did not have to put him on a pedestal because "he recently came out of the closet" or however they put it. You can call me ignorant, conservative, Christian or what ever you wanna call me but sexual preference should not ever be mentioned in a PBA telecast.
My analogy is that you don't hear ESPN going and interviewing NFL MLB NBA players on the sidelines about being gay! Can you not read? For the FORTH and final time the issue is not Scott being gay or even him kissing his "husband!" the issue I have is that ESPN treated his coming out the same way they treated Belmo's televised 300! Go back and watch the recording. They went into the two interviews the same way. They treated his coming out the way they treat everyone else's milestones of their career! Why not go back 2010 title or some of his other accomplishments instead of coming out of the closet?
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Please, your pathetic backtracking is nauseating. Now you don't have a problem with them kissing (even though it's sick in your words), you just have a problem with ESPN. No, bigot, no. YOU go back and watch. In your mind they are doing that because that is what you want to see because that is how you think. Newsflash, Scott Norton is the first man in a relatively popular sport and regulary televised to come out in a long time. Last one to do it was Greg Louganis in Olympic diving. So they ask him about it because it takes GUTS knowing that he'll face the howls and indignation of bigots like you.
Yeah, tool, and there are gay men playing football in the NFL, baseball in the majors, hockey, basketball, EVERY SPORT. Your analogy is found to be lacking.
Ignorant huh? Well just why is bowling a "niche sport"??? Why can't it be more?? Im sure at some point in history a game called football that you played with your hands was a niche as well. Everyone in here bashes ESPN for their coverage and when I make a comment about mentioning someones sexual preference being inappropriate suddenly they are Gods gift to bowling. I think CSS does a much better job with college bowling than ESPN with the PBA.
ONCE AGAIN I STATE: I have no problem with the kiss! I find it sick but I realize ESPN would be discriminating to have stopped it or edited it. However, they did not have to put him on a pedestal because "he recently came out of the closet" or however they put it. You can call me ignorant, conservative, Christian or what ever you wanna call me but sexual preference should not ever be mentioned in a PBA telecast.
My analogy is that you don't hear ESPN going and interviewing NFL MLB NBA players on the sidelines about being gay! Can you not read? For the FORTH and final time the issue is not Scott being gay or even him kissing his "husband!" the issue I have is that ESPN treated his coming out the same way they treated Belmo's televised 300! Go back and watch the recording. They went into the two interviews the same way. They treated his coming out the way they treat everyone else's milestones of their career! Why not go back 2010 title or some of his other accomplishments instead of coming out of the closet?
Had ESPN not addressed the issue it would have been to ignore the 5 ton elephant in the room. If Norton makes another telecast and they treat it the same way I would agree it now becomes cheap exploitation. Hopefully moving forward they focus on his bowling and his lifestyle becomes a non-factor.
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Backtracking? No I still find the kiss disgusting and morally wrong as well but I won't go there. However, that is just my opinion. Guts? Guts is bowling with gout! Everyone on tour knew he was gay. You'd have to be blind and deaf around him to think otherwise. Now it takes "guts" to state the obvious?
So let me guess you think his "gutsy" coming out is a milestone in his bowling career? Equivalent of Belmo's televised 300?? Both of those notables were presented in the same fashion.
Heck let's go ahead and put him in the Bowling Hall of Fame for his Gutsy coming out. Bottom line: The guy bowled his tail off. Let's talk about his winning strategy or his practice routine or why he used storm products all through qualifying before going with C300 on the show instead of his sexual preference. I am done with this topic. We could argue about right or wrong until 2014 and our opinions and convictions would still differ.
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The guy bowled his tail off. Let's talk about his winning strategy or his practice routine or why he used storm products all through qualifying before going with C300
Yeah, let's bigot. You are one of the ones who chimed in about everything but the above. Bowling with GOUT? Really? Would that be you? Who the hell cares about you? You're not on television bowling. You're right about this topic being done. I've wasted more time than I can believe on somebody like you I wouldn't normally give the time of day.
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The guy bowled his tail off. Let's talk about his winning strategy or his practice routine or why he used storm products all through qualifying before going with C300
Yeah, let's bigot. You are one of the ones who chimed in about everything but the above. Bowling with GOUT? Really? Would that be you? Who the hell cares about you? You're not on television bowling. You're right about this topic being done. I've wasted more time than I can believe on somebody like you I wouldn't normally give the time of day.
The reason Scott was throwing C300 and Hammer is because he signed a 4 brand contract with EBI right before the show. He left Motiv and had been throwing whatever he wanted (Storm) through qualifying.
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The guy bowled his tail off. Let's talk about his winning strategy or his practice routine or why he used storm products all through qualifying before going with C300
Yeah, let's bigot. You are one of the ones who chimed in about everything but the above. Bowling with GOUT? Really? Would that be you? Who the hell cares about you? You're not on television bowling. You're right about this topic being done. I've wasted more time than I can believe on somebody like you I wouldn't normally give the time of day.
Haha are you kidding me???? Really?!?? You wasting your time? Evidently I'm the one wasting my time arguing about something that happened on a telecast with a person who hasn't even seen it! If you had seen it you wouldve known that Fawaz Abdulla (who Scott bowled against in the first match) showed up on crutches because of a severe Gout outbreak in his right foot! The interview in question also took place during THIS match.
So, next time before you jump to conclusions and call me a bigot I ask that you please at least know the facts.
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Thanks Tommy Boy I figured it was something like that.
So, really why didn't ESPN even discuss that? I would think that would be more pertinent to bowling than his sexual orientation. I guess signing a contract with a major manufacturer isn't that important. I'm sure there are other things like that they could've hit on as well but ESPN chose his coming out over it all. That's my complaint and has been from the get go. Why skip details like that and then report things in his personal life.
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I do agree that they went above and beyond what they do with other bowlers on their spouse and ect.
That is ESPNs choice and the PBA on how they want to handle their niche sport no one else watches. He is gay, and lets just let them(ESPN/PBA) focus on that. Bowling is second to everything else.
If he makes another show this season or wins another tournament we will see how that trend continues.
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I guess I am in the minority here. I don't have a problem with ESPN interviewing him on his coming out of the closet. Was it obvious to everyone on tour before he "came out"? Of course. But today's sports environment is different than the past. Long gone are the days of sports only telecasts irregardless of sport. Part of what makes sports telecasts so popular is the drama and humanization of the athletes. People want more than robots playing their favorite sports. We love feel good stories and like to cheer on the underdog. We also love to hate people for doing fans wrong. Scott's story of coming out was a way the PBA humanized the sport's athletes. Believe it or not, there a lot of gay/lesbian bowlers. If ESPN had ignored Scott's personal lifestyle, this thread would have been about how ESPN is full of bigots and tried to ignore his "lifestyle". Instead, they showed an interview (that had been prerecorded and was planned to be shown) about his being gay. I would have been more surprised if they didn't talk about it.
And if you still don't want non-sports talk during your sporting events, you may as well sell your TV. Chuck Pagano's leukemia was all the talk for the last 4 weeks in football. R.A. Dickey and his childhood molestation has been discussed tons. Tiger Woods and his libido. Lebron James and "the Decision". You cannot escape the off the field/court drama in sports today. Just accept it and move on.
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Well said spmcgivern.
The problem I have with the interview is that it's like they are equating his coming out with these hardships like leukemia, child molestation, or bowling with a gout outbreak. I think if someone is gay/ lesbian / bi that's fine. Show their spouse, show them together after a win, etc but I feel like it is reverse discrimination to make them into a hero for being themselves. I feel like it is putting the idea that "I will receive more recognition for my accomplishments if I'm gay" into our young viewers heads. I'm sorry I don't see being gay as being a handicap.
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I saw some of the shots by Norton (practice bowling for upcoming City....center had bowling on a few TV's imagine that :) )........all I can say is great arm swing. Very loose and lets it go without yacking on it. Could care less about the social implications.
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I guess I am in the minority here. I don't have a problem with ESPN interviewing him on his coming out of the closet. Was it obvious to everyone on tour before he "came out"? Of course. But today's sports environment is different than the past. Long gone are the days of sports only telecasts irregardless of sport. Part of what makes sports telecasts so popular is the drama and humanization of the athletes. People want more than robots playing their favorite sports. We love feel good stories and like to cheer on the underdog. We also love to hate people for doing fans wrong. Scott's story of coming out was a way the PBA humanized the sport's athletes. Believe it or not, there a lot of gay/lesbian bowlers. If ESPN had ignored Scott's personal lifestyle, this thread would have been about how ESPN is full of bigots and tried to ignore his "lifestyle". Instead, they showed an interview (that had been prerecorded and was planned to be shown) about his being gay. I would have been more surprised if they didn't talk about it.
And if you still don't want non-sports talk during your sporting events, you may as well sell your TV. Chuck Pagano's leukemia was all the talk for the last 4 weeks in football. R.A. Dickey and his childhood molestation has been discussed tons. Tiger Woods and his libido. Lebron James and "the Decision". You cannot escape the off the field/court drama in sports today. Just accept it and move on.
If you check the history on BR, there was a thread for when Norton won last time and a couple of users here made an issue about it. They were upset that ESPN didn't mention his partner, or the fact that Scott is gay.
And just for the record, I watched a rebroadcast of the 2012 TOC over the weekend again. For all you folks with a problem with ESPN for showing Norton's family, there were multiple camera shots of Rash's wife and even (god forbid!) a kiss when he won.
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I just exercised my right to not watch.
Luckily as I started watching the DVR recording of the show and started to grasp the not-so-subtle (to me) emphasis of Norton's lifestyle I checked BR and saw a bit of this discussion which led me to realize where the show was going...I'm sure he threw incredible shots but again................."nah im' good, i'll do something else" took over. Which is my right.
I just chose to turn the TV off, and it was a good choice.
I'll watch next week or something.
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Well said spmcgivern.
The problem I have with the interview is that it's like they are equating his coming out with these hardships like leukemia, child molestation, or bowling with a gout outbreak. I think if someone is gay/ lesbian / bi that's fine. Show their spouse, show them together after a win, etc but I feel like it is reverse discrimination to make them into a hero for being themselves. I feel like it is putting the idea that "I will receive more recognition for my accomplishments if I'm gay" into our young viewers heads. I'm sorry I don't see being gay as being a handicap.
I didn't see the interview and him being gay shown as a disability. Because of views we are seeing in this thread, people are surprised to hear when someone is gay performing in a heterosexual dominated environment. The media will continue to showcase these instances until it no longer generates controversy or viewership. The media made a big deal about Greg Louganis, Martina Navratilova, Billie Jean King, and even Renee Richards (though a slightly different case).
But as in those cases, the media no longer makes mention of the sexual lifestyle of the athletes any longer. It would be a big deal for an NFL player to come out, but not a male figure skater. No one cares if a WNBA player is a lesbian either. Even the LPBT/PWBA was known to have openly lesbian players. Once the novelty is over, it becomes about the sport.
In time, this won't be an issue. It is an issue now because Scott is the first (that I know of) PBA player to come out as gay. Once the media feels they can't get a shock or headline to draw viewship, it will return to the sport. At least until something else becomes the first.
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Showing his partner is one thing. Applauding him for coming out of the closet or being gay is totally different.
Just the message that ESPN should be sending the youth watching the show. OK boys and girls, young boys, its ok for you to kiss and date other young boys and by the way, be open about it.
Young girls, if you like your young female best freind, explore it, see where it takes you. Love her, kiss her, marry her if you choose. It's perfectly fine. ;)
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I've stayed completely out of this conversation, as I knew that SOMEWHERE Norton, his win, and his preferences would come up. I wanted to avoid it... until now.
Disclaimer: I am Black/American Indian.
I'm actually disgusted with a lot of the comments I have seen here slamming Norton, especially regarding him being gay. And I guess I am also in the minority (well, when haven't I been in the minority?!?) in saying that I do not, nor have ever had a problem with it. Why? 4 words: George Brenham III, and Curtis Odom. Two other guys who were firsts in this sport, let alone in the HoF. Two minorities in a predominately all-white sport. I'll even throw in Monacelli as well to add more of a minority. All of these did well in a sport where they could have received (and probably did receive) ridicule and threats for encroaching in and upsetting the status quo. Yet everyone learned to accept them for who they are.
Now you guys are upset about Norton for being who he is? Would you rather have him live and be a lie just to placate your machismo? If so, then I really think a lot of people here have some soul searching to do because making someone or thinking someone should do that to placate the masses says a lot about the lack of humanity people have. Just like Blacks and Latinos are not less of a human than whites, neither is anyone who is gay/lesbian/bi. So they need to not be treated as such.
As far as Norton's spouse, I don't need to note how many times Stayrook's or Mazza's wives were shown and ogled about when they made the finals, let alone when they picked up their 7-10s. So let's not even get started on that, otherwise those jumping on the media about it would be hypocrites.
Norton's win was a great win. Nearly bottom of the ladder all the way up (though I will say that Belmo's and Abdulla's performances were great). And if you noticed, not a single bowler on the telecast nor in that entire tournament gave a damn about Norton being gay. If you thought anyone had a problem with it, they would refuse to bowl in the tournament. That would cause more of a furor than anything played in the media, as there would be no tournament to bowl.
In short, there are a lot more moments for the highlight reel than the grandstanding about Norton being gay, and if those here only want to harp on that, like I said, some serious soul searching needs to be done.
BL.
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Showing his partner is one thing. Applauding him for coming out of the closet or being gay is totally different.
Just the message that ESPN should be sending the youth watching the show. OK boys and girls, young boys, its ok for you to kiss and date other young boys and by the way, be open about it.
Young girls, if you like your young female best freind, explore it, see where it takes you. Love her, kiss her, marry her if you choose. It's perfectly fine. ;)
Maybe you need to get out more, young people as a group do not have issues with someone being gay. They already understand that it is "OK" to be gay or not.
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Negative. I get out enough, and actually work with neighborhood teens. They do not think it is ok to be gay.
Brad, you are missing the point totally. It is not about his choice. It is about ESPN patronizing his homo lifestyle choice during the show.
If they had shown his wusband, even them kissing, and let that be that, I would not have a problem with ESPN. Just part of the show and what the winners did and do after each match. But to say that this guy should be applauded for coming out of the freakin closet is way different---its taking a position about the morality of being gay, and also saying that it is a positive thing for gays to be open about their lifestyle.
I did not turn to the bowling show to hear this type of propaganda.
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Again, that is purely a case of bigotry blinding you to what ESPN's intent was. It is patently ridiculous to think that anybody is equating being gay with having a disease or holding them up on a pedestal. Do gay people who come out face discrimination? Yep. Does it make them heroes? Only to the people that do the discriminating against them. Anybody that watched the shw thought that the guy bowling with gout put on a gutty display. You, on the other hand, are the only one who thinks the story about Norton being gay was done in the same light.
Well said spmcgivern.
The problem I have with the interview is that it's like they are equating his coming out with these hardships like leukemia, child molestation, or bowling with a gout outbreak. I think if someone is gay/ lesbian / bi that's fine. Show their spouse, show them together after a win, etc but I feel like it is reverse discrimination to make them into a hero for being themselves. I feel like it is putting the idea that "I will receive more recognition for my accomplishments if I'm gay" into our young viewers heads. I'm sorry I don't see being gay as being a handicap.
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Negative. I get out enough, and actually work with neighborhood teens. They do not think it is ok to be gay.
Brad, you are missing the point totally. It is not about his choice. It is about ESPN patronizing his homo lifestyle choice during the show.
If they had shown his wusband, even them kissing, and let that be that, I would not have a problem with ESPN. Just part of the show and what the winners did and do after each match. But to say that this guy should be applauded for coming out of the freakin closet is way different---its taking a position about the morality of being gay, and also saying that it is a positive thing for gays to be open about their lifestyle.
I did not turn to the bowling show to hear this type of propaganda.
CC, do you think the way ESPN handled the show made you feel like they were trying to make you into a gay person? Do you think ESPN had an agenda to turn as many "straight" people into gay people based on their actions?
Your disdain towards the LGBTI societies is obvious by your name calling and is unnecessary. Just as all heterosexual people have roll models, so do homosexuals. Role models who are successful and are not afraid to be "themselves". By your comments, you would rather they just cower in fright and pretend to be something they are not. How dare they be themselves. The reason for the way ESPN handled the situation is to showcase a gay athlete other gay/lesbian athletes can look to as a role model. A successful professional and successful athlete. I would hope you would want the same type of role model for your kids irregardless of their sexual preference.
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You're so totally off base on this it isn't funny. Kids in high school and college don't make one tenth the deal that so called "adults" like you do about somebody being gay or lesbian. They don't have time for the bigotry that you live your life by. Do you mean to say that if your best buddy for twenty years, the guy who stood up at your wedding told you he was gay you wouldn't have anything to do with him anymore?
The fact that there is still a closet for people who are different to even come out of is an indication of how immature some members of our society are.
Negative. I get out enough, and actually work with neighborhood teens. They do not think it is ok to be gay.
Brad, you are missing the point totally. It is not about his choice. It is about ESPN patronizing his homo lifestyle choice during the show.
If they had shown his wusband, even them kissing, and let that be that, I would not have a problem with ESPN. Just part of the show and what the winners did and do after each match. But to say that this guy should be applauded for coming out of the freakin closet is way different---its taking a position about the morality of being gay, and also saying that it is a positive thing for gays to be open about their lifestyle.
I did not turn to the bowling show to hear this type of propaganda.
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ESPN is getting exactly what 'they' want from this...exposure...it is now on the Huffington post report....however you look at, it is creating talk, no differently than the hype of when Ballard threw it in the gutter or Blanchard ended up in the gutter...you've had the alleged bottle-gate and Belmo vs the wrestler...the bottom line is E X P O S U R E....it matters zero who or why they are exploiting someone only that it creates A T T E N T I O N
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Negative. I get out enough, and actually work with neighborhood teens. They do not think it is ok to be gay.
Brad, you are missing the point totally. It is not about his choice. It is about ESPN patronizing his homo lifestyle choice during the show.
If they had shown his wusband, even them kissing, and let that be that, I would not have a problem with ESPN. Just part of the show and what the winners did and do after each match. But to say that this guy should be applauded for coming out of the freakin closet is way different---its taking a position about the morality of being gay, and also saying that it is a positive thing for gays to be open about their lifestyle.
I did not turn to the bowling show to hear this type of propaganda.
CC, do you think the way ESPN handled the show made you feel like they were trying to make you into a gay person? Do you think ESPN had an agenda to turn as many "straight" people into gay people based on their actions?
Your disdain towards the LGBTI societies is obvious by your name calling and is unnecessary. Just as all heterosexual people have roll models, so do homosexuals. Role models who are successful and are not afraid to be "themselves". By your comments, you would rather they just cower in fright and pretend to be something they are not. How dare they be themselves. The reason for the way ESPN handled the situation is to showcase a gay athlete other gay/lesbian athletes can look to as a role model. A successful professional and successful athlete. I would hope you would want the same type of role model for your kids irregardless of their sexual preference.
Exactly, and thank you for posting this. For the record, I don't know where I would be in my bowling career if it weren't for Odom and Brenham, as while everyone admired Earl, Roth, Salvino, and others, there was not much to barrack for who was not of WASP heritage. How would that make one who is in the minority feel about that sport? I can guarantee you that they wouldn't have that warm fuzzy in knowing that they could make it work, outside of drive and determination to prove everyone else wrong. That's what Brenham, Odom, and Monacelli gave minorities by going out and being the pioneers to get it done on the tour. I believe Billy Oakes made reference to that in the early-mid 2000s.
So we have a bunch of heteros making it, and that's the status quo. What about those who are LGBT? They deserve their shot as well. They deserve to be just as emotional in a win as Weber was when he passed his father at the US Open, or Jurek won his first in 15 years, or as Loschetter will be when he wins his first, or Hess or Smallwood.
Everyone thinks that it is about their way of life; it is not. I say again: It. Is. NOT. It is about the obstacles they have had to overcome, especially the fight in themselves about what is right and reconciling that fact, and how it applies to what they are doing on the lanes, in the finals and on TV. For them to come out, to themselves, say "hey, it's okay", and do what everyone else is doing and still staying true to themselves means a hell of a lot more than the complaints about "propaganda" or morality.
For those who still are grandstanding about it, I simply say "walk a mile".
BL.
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Long Gone Daddy you lost my attention when you showed us you never even saw the interview or the first match.
As for gays facing "discrimination," there is no such thing as discrimination these days....unless you're a straight white male. Companies will hire equally or lesser qualified minority, female, and gay candidate over a white male just to keep from "discriminating" or offending anyone but you don't hear any those screaming discrimination do you? Everyone is allowed to drink out of the same water fountains and ride the same seats on buses now days.
Everyone "discriminates" (in the meaning you are giving) in some way shape or form. I don't care to be around people smoking. Some people don't like to be around people who drink. Whats next? Hey let's just have an interview with a bowler who admits he smokes behind closed doors. If ESPN treated all straight and gay players truly as EQUALS there would have been no interview. Sexual orientation would have not even been mentioned.
Someone said it perfect. It's all about EXPOSURE and I feel using that interview as exposure is wrong and sent the message that "it's cool to be gay and you'll get extra attention for coming out."
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I feel using that interview as exposure is wrong and sent the message that "it's cool to be gay and you'll get extra attention for coming out."
I wouldn't say the intention was, "It's cool to be gay." More along the lines of it's okay to be yourself in a world where others feel you are somehow inferior to them.
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Oh, wow, there it is. Some poor discriminated against white man is now going to tell us how poorly he has been mistreated in life. Sir, you are a total cliche. And I saw the whole thing so I have no idea what you're talking about because I don't see the world thru you your sad, hurt, discriminated against eyes.
What you seem to not get is the fact that ESPN does treat straight and gays exactly the same. Holy shit, there was a five minute "story" a couple of years ago on how Sean Rash met his wife. They followed that with the story of Bill O'Neill and his wife. They do human interest stories on every pro about big things in their life. Only difference this time, you can't tolerate gays and all your shields and biases went on full red alert and you saw what you wanted to see.
Just freaking admit that you're a homophobe. It's your right as an American to admit. Quit dancing around it and trying to justify this total line of b.s. you're trying to hand everybody here. JUST SAY IT! You're nothing but an internet ghost on here just like the rest of us, why can't you just admit it?
The Long Gone Daddy you lost my attention when you showed us you never even saw the interview or the first match.
As for gays facing "discrimination," there is no such thing as discrimination these days....unless you're a straight white male. Companies will hire equally or lesser qualified minority, female, and gay candidate over a white male just to keep from "discriminating" or offending anyone but you don't hear any those screaming discrimination do you? Everyone is allowed to drink out of the same water fountains and ride the same seats on buses now days.
Everyone "discriminates" (in the meaning you are giving) in some way shape or form. I don't care to be around people smoking. Some people don't like to be around people who drink. Whats next? Hey let's just have an interview with a bowler who admits he smokes behind closed doors. If ESPN treated all straight and gay players truly as EQUALS there would have been no interview. Sexual orientation would have not even been mentioned.
Someone said it perfect. It's all about EXPOSURE and I feel using that interview as exposure is wrong and sent the message that "it's cool to be gay and you'll get extra attention for coming out."
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Still equating being gay with being a slave or being discriminated against and treated worse than animals. So far outside of what I can conceive as rational thinking that I can not further respond.
LGD,
Can you stay on topic? Where have I said that ESPN was trying to make me anything? When did this get to be about role models? Why focus on what I think ESPN was thinking. A waste of time and exercise in futility. I know what ESPN's reporters said during the show. Let's talk about that instead.
The guy can do or be whatever he wants. I never saw him stop between frames to tell the bowling audience that he was gay or that he was coming out of the closet. Would not have expected him to do so during a bowling show. Maybe on Jerry Springer, but not on a bowling show.
In the same light, I did not expect ESPN to do it either. But to take it a step further and say he should be applauded for being gay and coming out of the closet; that's way across the line for a bowling show.
And those of you that claim to be in touch with the youth of today, no homo.
Negative. I get out enough, and actually work with neighborhood teens. They do not think it is ok to be gay.
Brad, you are missing the point totally. It is not about his choice. It is about ESPN patronizing his homo lifestyle choice during the show.
If they had shown his wusband, even them kissing, and let that be that, I would not have a problem with ESPN. Just part of the show and what the winners did and do after each match. But to say that this guy should be applauded for coming out of the freakin closet is way different---its taking a position about the morality of being gay, and also saying that it is a positive thing for gays to be open about their lifestyle.
I did not turn to the bowling show to hear this type of propaganda.
CC, do you think the way ESPN handled the show made you feel like they were trying to make you into a gay person? Do you think ESPN had an agenda to turn as many "straight" people into gay people based on their actions?
Your disdain towards the LGBTI societies is obvious by your name calling and is unnecessary. Just as all heterosexual people have roll models, so do homosexuals. Role models who are successful and are not afraid to be "themselves". By your comments, you would rather they just cower in fright and pretend to be something they are not. How dare they be themselves. The reason for the way ESPN handled the situation is to showcase a gay athlete other gay/lesbian athletes can look to as a role model. A successful professional and successful athlete. I would hope you would want the same type of role model for your kids irregardless of their sexual preference.
Exactly, and thank you for posting this. For the record, I don't know where I would be in my bowling career if it weren't for Odom and Brenham, as while everyone admired Earl, Roth, Salvino, and others, there was not much to barrack for who was not of WASP heritage. How would that make one who is in the minority feel about that sport? I can guarantee you that they wouldn't have that warm fuzzy in knowing that they could make it work, outside of drive and determination to prove everyone else wrong. That's what Brenham, Odom, and Monacelli gave minorities by going out and being the pioneers to get it done on the tour. I believe Billy Oakes made reference to that in the early-mid 2000s.
So we have a bunch of heteros making it, and that's the status quo. What about those who are LGBT? They deserve their shot as well. They deserve to be just as emotional in a win as Weber was when he passed his father at the US Open, or Jurek won his first in 15 years, or as Loschetter will be when he wins his first, or Hess or Smallwood.
Everyone thinks that it is about their way of life; it is not. I say again: It. Is. NOT. It is about the obstacles they have had to overcome, especially the fight in themselves about what is right and reconciling that fact, and how it applies to what they are doing on the lanes, in the finals and on TV. For them to come out, to themselves, say "hey, it's okay", and do what everyone else is doing and still staying true to themselves means a hell of a lot more than the complaints about "propaganda" or morality.
For those who still are grandstanding about it, I simply say "walk a mile".
BL.
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What a bunch of gibberish. I can show you story after story of kids embracing and protecting gay kids from bullies and making sure they were mainstreamed in the school community.
That's your buddy Arone talking about discrimination, not me. But I'll stand by what I said about gays feeling discriminated against just for being gay. Matthew Shepherd ring a bell? How is what happened to him any different from what happened to blacks who dared look at a white woman in the 50's? How would you like it if you were chastised and threatened because you like to bowl?
Again, you're as sad as Arone. YOU SAW WHAT YOU WANTED TO SEE DUE TO YOUR BIASES AND BIGOTRY.
As far as this gem? And those of you that claim to be in touch with the youth of today, no homo. Come back after learning how the English language goes together in a sentence.
Still equating being gay with being a slave or being discriminated against and treated worse than animals. So far outside of what I can conceive as rational thinking that I can not further respond.
LGD,
Can you stay on topic? Where have I said that ESPN was trying to make me anything? When did this get to be about role models? Why focus on what I think ESPN was thinking. A waste of time and exercise in futility. I know what ESPN's reporters said during the show. Let's talk about that instead.
The guy can do or be whatever he wants. I never saw him stop between frames to tell the bowling audience that he was gay or that he was coming out of the closet. Would not have expected him to do so during a bowling show. Maybe on Jerry Springer, but not on a bowling show.
In the same light, I did not expect ESPN to do it either. But to take it a step further and say he should be applauded for being gay and coming out of the closet; that's way across the line for a bowling show.
And those of you that claim to be in touch with the youth of today, no homo.
Negative. I get out enough, and actually work with neighborhood teens. They do not think it is ok to be gay.
Brad, you are missing the point totally. It is not about his choice. It is about ESPN patronizing his homo lifestyle choice during the show.
If they had shown his wusband, even them kissing, and let that be that, I would not have a problem with ESPN. Just part of the show and what the winners did and do after each match. But to say that this guy should be applauded for coming out of the freakin closet is way different---its taking a position about the morality of being gay, and also saying that it is a positive thing for gays to be open about their lifestyle.
I did not turn to the bowling show to hear this type of propaganda.
CC, do you think the way ESPN handled the show made you feel like they were trying to make you into a gay person? Do you think ESPN had an agenda to turn as many "straight" people into gay people based on their actions?
Your disdain towards the LGBTI societies is obvious by your name calling and is unnecessary. Just as all heterosexual people have roll models, so do homosexuals. Role models who are successful and are not afraid to be "themselves". By your comments, you would rather they just cower in fright and pretend to be something they are not. How dare they be themselves. The reason for the way ESPN handled the situation is to showcase a gay athlete other gay/lesbian athletes can look to as a role model. A successful professional and successful athlete. I would hope you would want the same type of role model for your kids irregardless of their sexual preference.
Exactly, and thank you for posting this. For the record, I don't know where I would be in my bowling career if it weren't for Odom and Brenham, as while everyone admired Earl, Roth, Salvino, and others, there was not much to barrack for who was not of WASP heritage. How would that make one who is in the minority feel about that sport? I can guarantee you that they wouldn't have that warm fuzzy in knowing that they could make it work, outside of drive and determination to prove everyone else wrong. That's what Brenham, Odom, and Monacelli gave minorities by going out and being the pioneers to get it done on the tour. I believe Billy Oakes made reference to that in the early-mid 2000s.
So we have a bunch of heteros making it, and that's the status quo. What about those who are LGBT? They deserve their shot as well. They deserve to be just as emotional in a win as Weber was when he passed his father at the US Open, or Jurek won his first in 15 years, or as Loschetter will be when he wins his first, or Hess or Smallwood.
Everyone thinks that it is about their way of life; it is not. I say again: It. Is. NOT. It is about the obstacles they have had to overcome, especially the fight in themselves about what is right and reconciling that fact, and how it applies to what they are doing on the lanes, in the finals and on TV. For them to come out, to themselves, say "hey, it's okay", and do what everyone else is doing and still staying true to themselves means a hell of a lot more than the complaints about "propaganda" or morality.
For those who still are grandstanding about it, I simply say "walk a mile".
BL.
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There are some youth who have issues with homosexuality, but I think they are in the minority. The younger generations have a much better grasp on diversity than us older folks.
You can accept that...or not. It doesn't change the truth.
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Oh, wow, there it is. Some poor discriminated against white man is now going to tell us how poorly he has been mistreated in life. Sir, you are a total cliche. And I saw the whole thing so I have no idea what you're talking about because I don't see the world thru you your sad, hurt, discriminated against eyes.
What you seem to not get is the fact that ESPN does treat straight and gays exactly the same. Holy shit, there was a five minute "story" a couple of years ago on how Sean Rash met his wife. They followed that with the story of Bill O'Neill and his wife. They do human interest stories on every pro about big things in their life. Only difference this time, you can't tolerate gays and all your shields and biases went on full red alert and you saw what you wanted to see.
Just freaking admit that you're a homophobe. It's your right as an American to admit. Quit dancing around it and trying to justify this total line of b.s. you're trying to hand everybody here. JUST SAY IT! You're nothing but an internet ghost on here just like the rest of us, why can't you just admit it?
The Long Gone Daddy you lost my attention when you showed us you never even saw the interview or the first match.
As for gays facing "discrimination," there is no such thing as discrimination these days....unless you're a straight white male. Companies will hire equally or lesser qualified minority, female, and gay candidate over a white male just to keep from "discriminating" or offending anyone but you don't hear any those screaming discrimination do you? Everyone is allowed to drink out of the same water fountains and ride the same seats on buses now days.
Everyone "discriminates" (in the meaning you are giving) in some way shape or form. I don't care to be around people smoking. Some people don't like to be around people who drink. Whats next? Hey let's just have an interview with a bowler who admits he smokes behind closed doors. If ESPN treated all straight and gay players truly as EQUALS there would have been no interview. Sexual orientation would have not even been mentioned.
Someone said it perfect. It's all about EXPOSURE and I feel using that interview as exposure is wrong and sent the message that "it's cool to be gay and you'll get extra attention for coming out."
LGD it sure is odd for a homophobe such as myself to be very close to two lesbian relatives. They want to be treated like everyone else. Making a big deal out of them coming out like ESPN did is not them being treated as equals. I don't agree with their lifestyles but that doesn't stop me from caring about them or wanting to be a part of their lives.
LGD it also sure is odd that you had no freakin clue as to what I was talking about when I mentioned bowling with Gout hmmmmm I never even got a lame excuse for that. Maybe now you have watched it, but you will never convince me you watched it before this topic started. I've already had 2 members message me telling me that you will argue with anyone who will bother paying you any attention. So, you are now being ignored.
My point was not to cry discrimination. It was to say the type "discrimination" you are referring to happens to everyone these days not just gays, minorities, females, and any others.
Not that I want to see it but If they wanna do a 5 minute interview on how he met his spouse fine, but don't do an interview like they did trying to make him a hero for being gay and coming out. Kids won't look at "how they met" as getting rewarded for being gay and coming out like they would that interview Sunday.
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Wow, you really are a cliche aren't you? Now you have relatives that are gay.
You'll have to forgive me but in your meandering posting style I thought you were talking about you having gout. Yes, cliche, I saw the whole show. I saw Abdullah in the wheelchair and everything.
Tell you what? Show the tape to your now coming out of the woodwork gay relatives. Let them type their take on what ESPN showed.
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Lmao. Two days and that's the best excuse you can come up with?? Wish I had a buck for everytime you typed the word "cliche"! Is That the vocabulary word of the week? How about a new word: LIFE. Maybe you should try getting one. I'm going to get back to mine before I waste anymore of it trying to have an intelligent conversation with you.
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Still equating being gay with being a slave or being discriminated against and treated worse than animals. So far outside of what I can conceive as rational thinking that I can not further respond.
Where did slavery come into this? You do realize that for the most, there were less times of slavery in this country than there was of free minorities being held down by Jim Crow, and even then people were still being treated as second-class citizens.
In short, YOU brought up slavery, not us. YOU brought up being treated worse than animals, not us. Those words and thoughts came out of your head, so don't you dare try pinning your irrational reasoning for those on anything I have said.
The whole point of my posts, which you completely missed the point on, was the additional struggle Norton had to go through in addition to the physical and mental game in the sport. He had to fight the demons in his head that warred with what he thought may be right or wrong in his life, as well as competing at the highest level. That is something most people (and all straight people) have never had to deal with. I brought up Odom, Monacelli, and Brenham, because they had similar struggles, in being minorities, just like Norton has in being a minority. After that, their struggles were different, but on top, each one was a minority in this sport, and now look at where we are:
Billy Oakes.
Clara Guerrero.
Sara Vargas.
Andreas Gomes.
Ildemaro Ruiz.
Fawaz Abdulla.
All because 3 guys decided to defy adversity and compete. And now that someone is coming in with a new set of adversity all his own, you slag it into something irrational, based out of your own thinking.
So you may want to re-read my post again, let alone revisit your thoughts. I'll also leave you with a homework assignment: Outside of the 3 people I have mentioned, Please name me any non-WASP who competed in the PBA or any previous entities of it between, say, 1960 and 1982.
BL.
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http://www.usatoday.com/story/gameon/2013/01/02/bowler-kisses-husband-after-winning-tournament-on-espn/1804347/ (http://www.usatoday.com/story/gameon/2013/01/02/bowler-kisses-husband-after-winning-tournament-on-espn/1804347/)
This story has now made USA Today and they said something about it was not a big deal except for some bowlers so maybe they are reading this topic. :)
Quote:
"...and few people outside the bowling world seemed to care or notice."
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Priceless...Billie Jean King becomes team owner of Pete Weber's team...which coincidently also has Scott Norton on it...
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If the shoe fits, clown, if the shote fits.
Lmao. Two days and that's the best excuse you can come up with?? Wish I had a buck for everytime you typed the word "cliche"! Is That the vocabulary word of the week? How about a new word: LIFE. Maybe you should try getting one. I'm going to get back to mine before I waste anymore of it trying to have an intelligent conversation with you.
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If the shoe fits, clown, if the shote fits.
Lmao. Two days and that's the best excuse you can come up with?? Wish I had a buck for everytime you typed the word "cliche"! Is That the vocabulary word of the week? How about a new word: LIFE. Maybe you should try getting one. I'm going to get back to mine before I waste anymore of it trying to have an intelligent conversation with you.
Wait a minute! Were you not just giving advice on forming a sentence??? That last post appears to consist of a prepositional phrase, a subject, and another prepositional phrase. You seemed to have forgotten a verb. I'm sorry! HaHa This is just too much fun!
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die thread, die!!
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"Why don't you have your "two lesbian relatives" comment here instead of desperately trying to change the subject like you've been doing the last two times you've posted? Shouldn't be hard to get a hold of them, let them watch your tape, and then have them comment on here. Either that or just come out and say you're a homophobe. What in the world are you afraid of? You are what you are, don't try to hide it. It will just cause you stress. Admit it and set yourself free.
If the shoe fits, clown, if the shote fits.
Lmao. Two days and that's the best excuse you can come up with?? Wish I had a buck for everytime you typed the word "cliche"! Is That the vocabulary word of the week? How about a new word: LIFE. Maybe you should try getting one. I'm going to get back to mine before I waste anymore of it trying to have an intelligent conversation with you.
Wait a minute! Were you not just giving advice on forming a sentence??? That last post appears to consist of a prepositional phrase, a subject, and another prepositional phrase. You seemed to have forgotten a verb. I'm sorry! HaHa This is just too much fun!
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There's no point. You're just like any other liberal. I could tell you the sky is blue and you would argue otherwise. I'm really not posting again as ruffling your feathers has become a bore to me.
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I personally was proud of the PBA/ESPN for doing this. no I am not gay but I am for 100% equality. Why is it okay for a woman and a man to kiss and not a gay couple?
You people sound like Westboro Baptist Church on here. BOWLERS HATE FAGS!!!!!
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Yeah, baby! Pull all the stops out now!
Let's see, what other card can you play? You've played the "poor discriminated against white man" card. You've played the "I can't be bigoted, some of my best friends/relatives are gay". Now you've just played your trump card of "You're a liberal". No, I'm just a guy that loves watching and helping bigots like you paint themselves into a corner. Well done, sir, well done.
quote author=Arone24 link=topic=291425.msg2369496#msg2369496 date=1357184084]
There's no point. You're just like any other liberal. I could tell you the sky is blue and you would argue otherwise. I'm really not posting again as ruffling your feathers has become a bore to me.
[/quote]
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die thread, die!!
I'm kind of surprised this thread is still going.I did see that Scott Norton was one of the headlines on MSN's sport section yesterday.
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That makes two of us STC. ESPN is definitely accomplishing their goal. They are getting the exposure.
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I can't believe I read the whole thread.
Arone, you are a tool. Nobody cares what you think. And that is giving you too much credit, to say that you can think. LGD read you like a book and gave you the rope. I think that you should use it to hang yourself.
Ccrider, you are an ass too. You can can go drink a few cold ones with the other bigots here and remember the old times. You know, before them fags were on the ESPN.
I am surprised that no one said why Scott cried. The win was for his friend, Tony Reyes. The TR patch wasn't some secret gay sign.
LGD, you are a class act.
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That makes two of us STC. ESPN is definitely accomplishing their goal. They are getting the exposure.
I stopped by my friends pro shop yesterday, and five people were discussing the show.So I guess if the goal was to get people talking,mission accomplished.
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Ch,
Teach your children that it is ok for boys to kiss, date, have sex with and marry boys. Same for girls.
I will continue to be the ass, bigoted and intolerant of these particular lifestyle choices. No homo. Have a good day.
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I think I've read a couple of times now where someone has mentioned the word 'choice'. Is it not more of a person being 'wired' to lean that way, like in DNA?
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I think I've read a couple of times now where someone has mentioned the word 'choice'. Is it not more of a person being 'wired' to lean that way, like in DNA?
generally speaking, that would be correct...
Would also explain why same-sex conduct is also seen in other species...but why let science get in the way of some good ol' boy bigotry.
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Exactly what other species are you referring to? Does that particular species have the ability to think and reason? Not that having this ability seems to matter much as is evidenced by some of the responses in this thread.
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I watched the show more or less start to finish while back home for the holidays with my parents, which is to say it was on in the background while we shot the ****. I rooted for Norton because I don't particularly care for WRW and Belmo and had never heard of the other guy.
Fast forward to the end of the match and Norton's celebration. Mom sees the kiss and casually comments, "could have gone without seeing that1". My Dad and I could have cared less about both the kiss and the fact that Mom wasn't necessarily a big fan. Why, you ask? Well, because it's a free country and we have infinitely more important things to attend to. Bottom line: My mother is not a bigot, nor does she require any soul-searching.
Who might possibly require soul-searching, however, are those of you who have totally lost your gourd over this thread and have replied roughly 250,000 times because someone else on the Internet doesn't agree 100% with you. Define "irrational".
1Author's Note: My Mother did not, at that point, load up her trunk with explosives and bomb a gay pride parade, go taunt the patrons at the local gay bar, or any other sort of thing, which I know some of you might find hard to believe. Also note that when she used to take bowling semi-seriously a decade or so ago, her coach was a local gay man who also happened to be a good friend of her and our family. Again, I know you guys crying bigotry will automatically assume I made that up, too.
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I watched the show more or less start to finish while back home for the holidays with my parents, which is to say it was on in the background while we shot the ****. I rooted for Norton because I don't particularly care for WRW and Belmo and had never heard of the other guy.
Fast forward to the end of the match and Norton's celebration. Mom sees the kiss and casually comments, "could have gone without seeing that1". My Dad and I could have cared less about both the kiss and the fact that Mom wasn't necessarily a big fan. Why, you ask? Well, because it's a free country and we have infinitely more important things to attend to. Bottom line: My mother is not a bigot, nor does she require any soul-searching.
Who might possibly require soul-searching, however, are those of you who have totally lost your gourd over this thread and have replied roughly 250,000 times because someone else on the Internet doesn't agree 100% with you. Define "irrational".
1Author's Note: My Mother did not, at that point, load up her trunk with explosives and bomb a gay pride parade, go taunt the patrons at the local gay bar, or any other sort of thing, which I know some of you might find hard to believe. Also note that when she used to take bowling semi-seriously a decade or so ago, her coach was a local gay man who also happened to be a good friend of her and our family. Again, I know you guys crying bigotry will automatically assume I made that up, too.
I couldn't agree more.
The best post on this subject matter.
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ccrider is one of those good ol' boys that think all gay men are there to hit on him. He gets upset because he doesn't know how he'd react. The fact that he might like it is what scares him the most. My two sons have had a couple of their buddies come out to them. I am thankful that they listened to me when I taught them to be tolerant of everything but ignorance and bigotry as nothing changed in their friendship.
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Can we finally lock this thread after 10 pages??
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LMAO. LGD, you got jokes.
ccrider is one of those good ol' boys that think all gay men are there to hit on him. He gets upset because he doesn't know how he'd react. The fact that he might like it is what scares him the most. My two sons have had a couple of their buddies come out to them. I am thankful that they listened to me when I taught them to be tolerant of everything but ignorance and bigotry as nothing changed in their friendship.
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I just know what makes ignorant bigots tick. Truth hurts, doesn't it?
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Can we finally lock this thread after 10 pages??
+1000000000000000
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In reading through this thread, I find it hard to believe we are living in 2013. The attitudes of some posters on here is more like 1953. I didn't see this show, we don't get the PBA in Canada anymore, but the hatred displayed by some of you is disgraceful. You are worried about explaining Scott's kiss with his partner to your kids, I would be more worried about how you explain your own bigotry to your kids. I find it amazing that you can actually function and be a productive part of society with these type of thoughts....well I guess West Baptist Church always needs new members.
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ccrider is one of those good ol' boys that think all gay men are there to hit on him. He gets upset because he doesn't know how he'd react. The fact that he might like it is what scares him the most.
LGD, are you saying that you do speculate that ccrider MAY, in fact, have a preference for weiner and balls that he is internally in denial of? ???
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Jorge, all I can say is amazing, but thank you.
You remind me of how limited (mentally) and irrational some of the responses have been in this thread.
There is a great difference between believing something is morally wrong or socially wrong, and hating. Bigotry is yet a different thing.
Yet, in the stroke of the keyboard, you easily clump them all together and treat them as one.
Tell me, if disapproving (socially or religiously) of the gay lifestyle, or objecting to being force-fed this propaganda during a bowling show is equated to being a bigot, then what does that make you? A bigot of those you consider to be bigots by your definition, or just a plain old hypocrite?
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I can't believe I read the whole thread.
Arone, you are a tool. Nobody cares what you think. And that is giving you too much credit, to say that you can think. LGD read you like a book and gave you the rope. I think that you should use it to hang yourself.
Ccrider, you are an ass too. You can can go drink a few cold ones with the other bigots here and remember the old times. You know, before them fags were on the ESPN.
I am surprised that no one said why Scott cried. The win was for his friend, Tony Reyes. The TR patch wasn't some secret gay sign.
LGD, you are a class act.
It seems that I missed all these replies.
Read me like a book? If anyone was read it was Long Gone Daddy having to go home and actually watch the telecast after I called him out for not knowing what I was talking about when I mentioned bowling with a gout inflammation. I'm done arguing with him. I'm sure he's one who voted for Obama and is now mad that his paycheck is now short $100 a pay period.
As for me being a tool: if that is your definition of recognizing special treatment when I see it, fine. That's all it is. Until you hear an interview every week on being a heterosexual in bowling, I'm sorry it's special treatment or promotion.
You people are very right. It's 2013. They have the right to kiss on TV just as I have the right to say i find it disgusting. We are all different. Gay, straight, Caucasian, African American, oriental, skinny, fat, tall, short and many other kinds of people. If it was the "equal" treatment as you say ESPN would not have made it a big deal. Show their spouse, let em hug, kiss, and cry all they want, but don't announce it in the same manner as you show Belmos televised 300 game. I understand ESPN did it to get exposure through controversy and not to promote homosexuality but that in no way makes it right.
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ccrider,
I didn't mention any names, but I guess you feel the shoe fits so you are wearing it by replying.
The fact that you think you were "force-fed this propaganda" says all that needs to be said. If you weren't a bigot, you wouldn't think that way. Enjoy it. It's your right to be backwards and stuck in the past. As I stated, it will be much harder for your children to understand why their Dad thinks the way he does, then about two men kissing on TV. And just for you, here is the definition of bigot: a person who is intolerant of any ideas other than his or her own. You are intolerant of seeing this on TV, feeling you are being forced to accept it. That in turn makes you a bigot, plain and simple. If you can't admit it, than it goes to show just how much of one you are. Your kids must cringe and hide when they are "forced" to go out in public with you and you display this kind of attitude.
Please show me where I am intolerant of your beliefs? I find it hard to believe that such backwards beliefs still exist in 2013, but it is your right to hold them. Just don't be surprised when intelligent people ridicule you for not evolving like the rest of mankind....maybe you are the infamous missing link?
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Jorge, since you claim to be "intelligent," why not give the complete and accurate definition, rather than your mis-stated watered down version: Merriam-Websters bigot- "a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices.
You fail to realize that using your misstated watered down version of the definition, you trap yourself. Applying your standard, surely you can see how you are being "intolerant of any ideas other than your own."
Of course, intolerant is another key term that you do not have a true grasp on.
Lets look at Webster's Definition of INTOLERANT
1: unable or unwilling to endure
2a : unwilling to grant equal freedom of expression especially in religious matters b : unwilling to grant or share social, political, or professional rights : bigoted
Again, some of us prefer not to be subjected to what we believe is immoral gay conduct while watching a bowling show. I stated early on, I place no more value on a persons right to be gay, than I do on my right to believe that it is wrong. My right to choose what I watch on T.V. is again, my right. ESPN has a right to televise whatever they choose. I am fine with that too. Maybe they gained attention, maybe they loose watchers in the end.
We all have rights. The fact that I am not persuaded to accept your opinions, beliefs or values over my own does not make me bigoted, or intolerant. It simply means that we disagree. The only difference is, I can address the issue rationally without diverting to non-productive name calling (unless I choose to just to get a rise out of some of you whose brain short circuited simply because you do not agree with my beliefs). You seem unable to give a rational response to support the statements that you are making, or the position that you are taking.
Tell me this, what percentage of the population do you believe, actually maintains that being gay is morally o.k? I say morally, because this is a moral, not a legal issue. Does that mean that everyone that does not agree with those of you that think that it is hunky dory, is a bigot or intolerant?
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"Tell me this, what percentage of the population do you believe, actually maintains that being gay is morally o.k? I say morally, because this is a moral, not a legal issue. Does that mean that everyone that does not agree with those of you that think that it is hunky dory, is a bigot or intolerant?"
I couldn't have said this better myself! Well spoken ccrider. What's next? I don't like to be in the same room with someone who is smoking. Does that make me a bigot? If I choose not to hang around people because they are crack heads does that make me a bigot?
This whole conversation is just another example of why our country is in the shape it is in. We have taken The very faith our nation was founded over out of everything including schools. We have these shootings and then Wonder where God was when it happened. We forced him out. Our kids can't pray in school but ESPN can promote the ideas it did. We have a president who refuses to solute our flag, says he wants gun control to keep anymore of our kids from being harmed yet is one of the biggest supporters of partial birth abortions in history, tells us "no tax increase for the middle class" and raises out taxes on 80% of the nation month later. Our country is stuck believing whatever the media tells us. They are telling us homosexuality is okay and is morally right. If that's the case, why can't two males or two females have a child?
Until we all take a stand for what our parents taught us and stop believing everything the media tries to shove down our throats, this country's demise will continue.
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Jorge, since you claim to be "intelligent," why not give the complete and accurate definition, rather than your mis-stated watered down version: Merriam-Websters bigot- "a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices.
You fail to realize that using your misstated watered down version of the definition, you trap yourself. Applying your standard, surely you can see how you are being "intolerant of any ideas other than your own."
Of course, intolerant is another key term that you do not have a true grasp on.
Lets look at Webster's Definition of INTOLERANT
1: unable or unwilling to endure
2a : unwilling to grant equal freedom of expression especially in religious matters b : unwilling to grant or share social, political, or professional rights : bigoted
Again, some of us prefer not to be subjected to what we believe is immoral gay conduct while watching a bowling show. I stated early on, I place no more value on a persons right to be gay, than I do on my right to believe that it is wrong. My right to choose what I watch on T.V. is again, my right. ESPN has a right to televise whatever they choose. I am fine with that too. Maybe they gained attention, maybe they loose watchers in the end.
We all have rights. The fact that I am not persuaded to accept your opinions, beliefs or values over my own does not make me bigoted, or intolerant. It simply means that we disagree. The only difference is, I can address the issue rationally without diverting to non-productive name calling (unless I choose to just to get a rise out of some of you whose brain short circuited simply because you do not agree with my beliefs). You seem unable to give a rational response to support the statements that you are making, or the position that you are taking.
Tell me this, what percentage of the population do you believe, actually maintains that being gay is morally o.k? I say morally, because this is a moral, not a legal issue. Does that mean that everyone that does not agree with those of you that think that it is hunky dory, is a bigot or intolerant?
Well done!
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"Tell me this, what percentage of the population do you believe, actually maintains that being gay is morally o.k? I say morally, because this is a moral, not a legal issue. Does that mean that everyone that does not agree with those of you that think that it is hunky dory, is a bigot or intolerant?"
I couldn't have said this better myself! Well spoken ccrider. What's next? I don't like to be in the same room with someone who is smoking. Does that make me a bigot? If I choose not to hang around people because they are crack heads does that make me a bigot?
This whole conversation is just another example of why our country is in the shape it is in. We have taken The very faith our nation was founded over out of everything including schools. We have these shootings and then Wonder where God was when it happened. We forced him out. Our kids can't pray in school but ESPN can promote the ideas it did. We have a president who refuses to solute our flag, says he wants gun control to keep anymore of our kids from being harmed yet is one of the biggest supporters of partial birth abortions in history, tells us "no tax increase for the middle class" and raises out taxes on 80% of the nation month later. Our country is stuck believing whatever the media tells us. They are telling us homosexuality is okay and is morally right. If that's the case, why can't two males or two females have a child?
Until we all take a stand for what our parents taught us and stop believing everything the media tries to shove down our throats, this country's demise will continue.
Anything else, Jethro Bodine?
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Jethro Bodine? Haha thanks??? I guess! Seriously, read a history book. Increased spending, rising tax rates, public healthcare, a divided country, more people relying on the government than contributing, pending gun control, a biased media, and now there's a bill in the works to end presidential term limitb see for yourself: http://www.examiner.com/article/president-obama-could-get-3-terms-if-h-j-res-15-abolishes-term-limits
Does none of this ring a bell from a country in Europe?
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"Tell me this, what percentage of the population do you believe, actually maintains that being gay is morally o.k? I say morally, because this is a moral, not a legal issue. Does that mean that everyone that does not agree with those of you that think that it is hunky dory, is a bigot or intolerant?"
I couldn't have said this better myself! Well spoken ccrider. What's next? I don't like to be in the same room with someone who is smoking. Does that make me a bigot? If I choose not to hang around people because they are crack heads does that make me a bigot?
This whole conversation is just another example of why our country is in the shape it is in. We have taken The very faith our nation was founded over out of everything including schools. We have these shootings and then Wonder where God was when it happened. We forced him out. Our kids can't pray in school but ESPN can promote the ideas it did. We have a president who refuses to solute our flag, says he wants gun control to keep anymore of our kids from being harmed yet is one of the biggest supporters of partial birth abortions in history, tells us "no tax increase for the middle class" and raises out taxes on 80% of the nation month later. Our country is stuck believing whatever the media tells us. They are telling us homosexuality is okay and is morally right. If that's the case, why can't two males or two females have a child?
Until we all take a stand for what our parents taught us and stop believing everything the media tries to shove down our throats, this country's demise will continue.
http://www.news-medical.net/news/2006/10/23/20718.aspx (http://www.news-medical.net/news/2006/10/23/20718.aspx)
More than 1,500 species in nature practice some kind of homosexuality, and yet most humans, influenced by an imaginary man in the sky, believe that being gay or lesbian is immoral. Morality is learned, I suggest that you get a new teacher.
Scott is a personal friend of mine here in So Cal. He is a stand-up guy and wouldn't dare begrudge someone for who they are or what they did.
The smoking analogy doesn't hold up because smoking has been proven to kill people and second-hand smoke has been proven to be harmful to others, even causing death. Being gay doesn't harm anyone.
In the history of the USA, the intolerance of people based on race, gender, etc. has been steadily removed from our society. A person's sexual preference is a trait that will be defended by law very soon, I suggest you get used to it.
The very "faith" you describe is the same faith that is teaching you to be intolerant. The "faith" that's based on 2000 year old teachings. I suggest you grow a mind of your own and reconsider your ancient way of thinking. It's more moral to accept people for who they are than to default to a book written 2000 years ago when women were owned as slaves and everyone thought the world was flat.
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Fantastic reply to Arone, CCrider, and cav. Have tried to explain to them that their bigotry is making them see preferential treatment where none existed. Of course they are just too bigoted to admit it. So which of these apply to you Three Stooges? Which of these categories are you too weak of mind to not be able to conquer. Whic of these do you see yourselves in?
WHAT ARE THE CAUSES OF HOMOPHOBIA?
Personal (internalized)homophobia (prejudice) is primarily caused by misinformation.
o As with racism and sexism, people are taught to be homophobic.
o Myths about LGBTQ people are perpetuated in our society despite the availability of
accurate information.
Few children are given any unbiased information about LGBTQ people;
many adults continue to believe the stereotypes they learned as children; and
some religious and conservative organizations promote lies about lesbian, gay, and
bisexual people.
Interpersonal homophobia (harassment and individual discrimination) can be explained by considering psychological factors in conjunction with prejudice.
o People who are not comfortable with their own sexuality, or who feel threatened by samesex sexuality, tend to be more rigid about what is sexually "right" and may try to punish or force their beliefs on LGBTQ people.
Institutional homophobia is caused in part by competition for power. Societies such as our create scapegoats to maintain the status quo and the positions of those in power.
o During this century, groups such as Jews, African Americans, Asian Americans, Latin Americans, American Indians, women and LGBTQ people have all been blamed for a variety of social and economic problems.
o When scapegoating is successful, dominant groups don't need to take responsibility for injustice or give up privilege.
Cultural homophobia is largely caused by social norms which dictate "correct" sexuality.
o Sexual contact between women, and between men, has been practiced in all societies throughout history and is openly accepted in many cultures.
o But Western civilization is generally repressive of sexuality in any form, other than
intercourse necessary for procreation or sexual activity in the context of heterosexual
marriage. Therefore, same‐sex sexuality will certainly be feared or damned.
"Tell me this, what percentage of the population do you believe, actually maintains that being gay is morally o.k? I say morally, because this is a moral, not a legal issue. Does that mean that everyone that does not agree with those of you that think that it is hunky dory, is a bigot or intolerant?"
I couldn't have said this better myself! Well spoken ccrider. What's next? I don't like to be in the same room with someone who is smoking. Does that make me a bigot? If I choose not to hang around people because they are crack heads does that make me a bigot?
This whole conversation is just another example of why our country is in the shape it is in. We have taken The very faith our nation was founded over out of everything including schools. We have these shootings and then Wonder where God was when it happened. We forced him out. Our kids can't pray in school but ESPN can promote the ideas it did. We have a president who refuses to solute our flag, says he wants gun control to keep anymore of our kids from being harmed yet is one of the biggest supporters of partial birth abortions in history, tells us "no tax increase for the middle class" and raises out taxes on 80% of the nation month later. Our country is stuck believing whatever the media tells us. They are telling us homosexuality is okay and is morally right. If that's the case, why can't two males or two females have a child?
Until we all take a stand for what our parents taught us and stop believing everything the media tries to shove down our throats, this country's demise will continue.
http://www.news-medical.net/news/2006/10/23/20718.aspx (http://www.news-medical.net/news/2006/10/23/20718.aspx)
More than 1,500 species in nature practice some kind of homosexuality, and yet most humans, influenced by an imaginary man in the sky, believe that being gay or lesbian is immoral. Morality is learned, I suggest that you get a new teacher.
Scott is a personal friend of mine here in So Cal. He is a stand-up guy and wouldn't dare begrudge someone for who they are or what they did.
The smoking analogy doesn't hold up because smoking has been proven to kill people and second-hand smoke has been proven to be harmful to others, even causing death. Being gay doesn't harm anyone.
In the history of the USA, the intolerance of people based on race, gender, etc. has been steadily removed from our society. A person's sexual preference is a trait that will be defended by law very soon, I suggest you get used to it.
The very "faith" you describe is the same faith that is teaching you to be intolerant. The "faith" that's based on 2000 year old teachings. I suggest you grow a mind of your own and reconsider your ancient way of thinking. It's more moral to accept people for who they are than to default to a book written 2000 years ago when women were owned as slaves and everyone thought the world was flat.
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Your responses are no responsive. Please slowly read my last response, focus really hard and try to respond to answer my questions. Or, continue to ramble if that is all that you are able to mentally handle.
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Please lock this thread. There is no rhyme or reason to have this discussion on a BOWLING forum.
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Please lock this thread. There is no rhyme or reason to have this discussion on a BOWLING forum.
+100000000000000000000
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Agreed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Those of you who want to duck your head in the sand and avoid the discussion private message OP to lock the thread so you can stop whining about it being here instead of just choosing to pass the thread by. :o
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Or maybe the mods could easily delete the thread. Sounds like someone needs to step in and take control of some dumb shit going on.
There's a difference in an educated debate, where both sides offer points and counterpoints, and a pissing match between people who have an agenda.
I'll say it again: PLEASE LOCK THIS THREAD!!!
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Showing his partner is one thing. Applauding him for coming out of the closet or being gay is totally different.
Just the message that ESPN should be sending the youth watching the show. OK boys and girls, young boys, its ok for you to kiss and date other young boys and by the way, be open about it.
Young girls, if you like your young female best freind, explore it, see where it takes you. Love her, kiss her, marry her if you choose. It's perfectly fine. ;)
I know you're being sarcastic, but hell, I would applaud that message being sent out. It's a shame people are still so closed-minded and pathetically hateful and judgmental.
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For some people that is perfectly fine. End of story. Doesn't hurt you so keep your mouth shut about it. Not too hard to solve.
Showing his partner is one thing. Applauding him for coming out of the closet or being gay is totally different.
Just the message that ESPN should be sending the youth watching the show. OK boys and girls, young boys, its ok for you to kiss and date other young boys and by the way, be open about it.
Young girls, if you like your young female best freind, explore it, see where it takes you. Love her, kiss her, marry her if you choose. It's perfectly fine. ;)
I know you're being sarcastic, but hell, I would applaud that message being sent out. It's a shame people are still so closed-minded and pathetically hateful and judgmental.
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He man vs Iron man...who wins?
Cav