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Author Topic: walter ray williams, jr.  (Read 12530 times)

DON DRAPER

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walter ray williams, jr.
« on: August 30, 2008, 12:58:09 PM »
if there were any doubts about who the greatest bowler is i'd say they were answered this week at the world tenpin bowling association men's world championships. not only has walter ray won 44 pba national titles and been pba player of the year 6 times now he has also won the singles title and the masters title at the world tenpin bowling championships. the only major tournament he hasn't won is the pba's tournament of champions......even at the age of 48 i wouldn't count him out.

 

Nbgiant25

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Re: walter ray williams, jr.
« Reply #31 on: September 13, 2008, 03:28:03 PM »
quote:
dude
  crawl back under your rock.. the game today is ten times easier then it was back then.. I would take all the them there old generation bowlers(as you put it) against any and all the newer guys coming out today... anytime sir!!!


prove that it was 10 times easier... you can't.  i can, however, prove that it was SIMPLER.  there wasnt as much to deal with in the beginnings of bowling as a sport as there is today.

you have your opinion, and i have mine, don't start getting personal with it, you just sound silly...

BowlingWolf

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Re: walter ray williams, jr.
« Reply #32 on: September 13, 2008, 04:33:16 PM »
Nbgiant25:

While it is true that today's technology is superior to yesteryear's (a natural evolution), and that today there is a heavy emphasis on coaching (across all sports and other involvements of life), as well as specialized training, these facts alone do not serve to underscore that the bowlers from past generations were less able/talented than today's.

In fact, what you assert may very well be used to affirm that older time bowlers were more exceptional given the fact that they didn't have the resources readily available today.

Your claim that Earl Anthony's competition was inferior to today's doesn't hold any water whatsoever.  Earl bowled during an era when bowling popularity was at an all-time high, there were hundreds of bowlers that entered the weekly professional tour stops (unlike the meager amount of "exempt" bowlers that now enter), and his contemporaries are some of the greatest bowlers ever to lace 'em up (most of the bowlers in the PBA hall fame were his weekly competition).

Thinking that everything from today is superior than yesterday's is backward logic.

I don't even want to get into your baseball analysis (bashing Babe Ruth???)—I could go on forever on that one—suffice it to say that I think it' a bunch of hogwash.

What ever rocks your boat.

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BowlingWolf

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Re: walter ray williams, jr.
« Reply #33 on: September 13, 2008, 07:53:30 PM »
it's difficult to compare era's from any sport. Were the bowlers of the 70's, 80's, better than the bowlers of today?  I'm not sure anyone can say that.  I consider Earl Anthony and WRW and Norm Duke the best bowlers the game has ever seen.  WRW and DUKE both played part of there careers during the same time Earl Anthony did.  There's some very talented bowlers playing today that would of giving many of the bowlers back in the day a run for there money.

Jayemm

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Re: walter ray williams, jr.
« Reply #34 on: September 13, 2008, 08:02:21 PM »
quote:
Earl Anthony was comparable to Babe Ruth.
(No competition within spitting distance)

WRW is comparable to Hank Aaron.
(He outlasted everyone, while still performing better.)


if your going to use those guidelines to compare bowlers then PDW can be compared to Ken Griffey Jr.  Tremendous god given talent, but injuries (in Petey's case, suspension and poor personal choices [ i.e. : the drugs and alcohol]) prevented him from being the best their ever was.
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Maine Man

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Re: walter ray williams, jr.
« Reply #35 on: September 13, 2008, 08:05:36 PM »
Earl Anthony:  41 titles in 13 seasons

Walter Ray:  41 titles in 25 seasons (he now has 44 in 28 seasons)

No doubt about it, Earl is the best.  No one will ever win that amount of titles in that short of a span ever again.  Even though I feel Earl is the best of all time, I do feel that Walter Ray is not only the second best, but THE greatest right handed bowler ever.



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dw23

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Re: walter ray williams, jr.
« Reply #36 on: September 13, 2008, 08:53:12 PM »
Walter is the best in my opinion. He has had to compete with more competition. The mediocre bowlers that have been made very good or even great by the reactive equipment give Walter more competition week in and week out.

As great as Earl was I don't agree that it is a given that he would have been as great with the reactive equipment. Many bowlers from the plastic and urethane days have had trouble adjusting to reactive equipment. It ran some out of the game completely.

Bottom line for me is we know that Walter can win eras and we will never know if Earl could have done it but it doesn't take away from his greatness. Walter first Earl second and insert one of many from third on.
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86camaroman

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Re: walter ray williams, jr.
« Reply #37 on: September 13, 2008, 09:29:49 PM »
didnt want to chime in but after reading the post above mine I realize how stupid some comments are. Saying that a mediocre bowler is great with resin making it hard for walter to win but  then contradicting and saying that earl may not have been able to use resin. So a great bowler cant use resin but a mediocre bowler is awesome with it um yeah okay

slashrr69

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Re: walter ray williams, jr.
« Reply #38 on: September 14, 2008, 01:34:08 AM »
bowlingwolf
        you hit it right on the head big dog.. you can hoooooooowwwwwllllll anytime you want too... and mainepba keep them stats coming in 41 in 13 years and 41 in 25 years, do the math NO QUESTION!!!  GO EARL!!!     slashrr69

dw23

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Re: walter ray williams, jr.
« Reply #39 on: September 14, 2008, 03:16:14 AM »
quote:
didn't want to chime in but after reading the post above mine I realize how stupid some comments are. Saying that a mediocre bowler is great with resin making it hard for walter to win but  then contradicting and saying that earl may not have been able to use resin. So a great bowler cant use resin but a mediocre bowler is awesome with it um yeah okay


It's not a contradiction. Bowlers that were not very accurate have had an easier time since resin. Bowlers that were accurate but couldn't generate speed to carry or control the newfound hook of resin have had a very hard time. Not a stupid comment but an observation. You can have one too without being stupid. However calling an educated opinion stupid is stupid.
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EdKramarcak

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Re: walter ray williams, jr.
« Reply #40 on: September 14, 2008, 10:18:25 AM »
And 86 is the king of stupid

86camaroman

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Re: walter ray williams, jr.
« Reply #41 on: September 14, 2008, 10:28:15 AM »
Yep I am stupid accurate bowlers cant use resin just bowlers that arent accurate can Im the idiot.

KennyRambo

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Re: walter ray williams, jr.
« Reply #42 on: September 14, 2008, 11:15:42 AM »
It gave the weaker handed players the power of the stronger handed players without the hand. It did not help high rev players, it hurt them.

DON DRAPER

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Re: walter ray williams, jr.
« Reply #43 on: September 14, 2008, 05:11:05 PM »
you know it's amazing how everyone seems to bring up the fact that it took walter ray longer to get 41 titles than earl anthony. is everyone aware that it took pete rose more at bats to reach 4,191 hits than it took ty cobb ? didn't hank aaron need more at bats to pass 714 home runs ? unless i'm mistaken, the record books only show the accomplishment achieved......not the length of the persons career.

iowalefty

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Re: walter ray williams, jr.
« Reply #44 on: September 14, 2008, 07:56:17 PM »
i doubt that all that many people think hank aaron is greater than babe ruth.  i don't and I'm a huge hank aaron fan.  babe ruth was revolutionary, hank aaron evolutionary.  if ya want more, look up the king of baseball stats, bill james. (yes i am a huge baseball stat/history nutjob)

anyway, neither earl anthony nor WRW were revolutionary, mark roth was the closest to that.  i grew up on earl anthony, and am a huge fan of his.  i watched a fair amount of earl when i was a kid, he was my idol etc, but i haven't watched as many other bowlers tho i have tried from youtube.  ok earl won his titles in fewer seasons.  didn't they bowl more tourneys per year then? that sorta cancels out the discrepancy in seasons, maybe shaves that in half.

the technology has accelerated since WRW came on tour, different formats etc further decreases the difference between the 2.  if pushed i would still choose earl but if WRW pushes for another POY i could very well change my mind.

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DP3

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Re: walter ray williams, jr.
« Reply #45 on: September 14, 2008, 08:47:15 PM »
I for one think it's harder for Walter Ray to win in this day in age than it was for Earl at his peak for these reasons.

There were far few players in Earl's era that could even come close to his greatness.  Earl was more accurate than anyone in his day, mentally tougher, and could optimize his reaction greater than anyone.  There was everyone else, and Earl.  Now with the exempt tour, open fields, and the wealth of knowledge that's easily attainable, you have 40+ players that are as good as Walter Ray in execution, optimizing reaction, and reading a pattern.  

With matching up being a large percentage of today's modern game, and the fact that Walter Ray carries less equipment than anyone on tour, week by week it's a crapshoot of who can match up the quickest and stay the hottest.  How many weeks have we seen a guy come out of nowhere and had the week of a lifetime due to throwing certain equipment drilled up by a rep who modified the set of balls for that week to give that player a look for the week that puts them way above everyone else?  I could name at least 12 times in the past 2 seasons alone.   The fact that "matchup or go home" plays such a pivotal role in today's success over yesteryear's where is was "execute the best or go home", it's amazing that Walter Ray can still be as dominant as he is.  That's not to say that Walter Ray isn't just matching up everyweek, yes he is, but he is doing it with far less balls than anyone on tour by a huge margin.  I believe there was a 6 week stretch last season where Walter only used 2 different N'Sane LevRG balls and was in the top 12 or 16 or so every week.  That's amazing considering that you have guys drilling nearly a dozen new balls week to week to get the matchup part of the game down.

Walter Ray's ability to outexecute the guy with "the best look" due to an equipment matchup and just win matches based on outscoring someone in a matchplay dominant setting is just amazing.  With this format in place and the simplicity of Walter's game, he could bowl another strong 10 seasons easily, especially since he's in such good physical shape.  

Yes Earl did it in an era with more tournaments and fewer seasons, but outside of about 8-10 guys of his era, who really stood a chance week in and week out while Earl was hot?  With today's tour, the guy with a good look and the right rep can destroy someone executing better shots on the lane since the equipment now plays such a large part in who is in contention.  

This is an argument that cannot be won, and a score that cannot be settled.  The fact that people have a hard time seeing Earl's record "go away" really shows how much of a lack of forward progression that bowlers are really trying to make to further the sport.  Sure it's fun to debate about topics like these but that "The present sucks, back in ____ was real bowling" attitude isn't rekindling any kind of new spirit into a game that desperately needs it.  

I still think Walter Ray's accomplishments at the end of his retirement will solidify him as the best ever.
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