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Author Topic: Horizon vs RS1  (Read 4285 times)

slickboobie

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Horizon vs RS1
« on: May 24, 2006, 01:28:12 AM »
Could someone compare the two really looking at both need some help deciding which one would be a better fit for the light oil conditions I see during the summer and upcoming fall season.


Thanks
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Roto-Mat

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Re: Horizon vs RS1
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2006, 09:35:14 AM »
When you say light oil, how light are you talking? What ball(s) are you currently using, and how much are they hooking? Both the Horizon and RS-1 are VERY strong pearl balls, and may not be suitable for exactly what you are looking for. For light oil patterns, I would recommend either the RS-X or Saturn before the other two balls mentioned.
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Mat Henning
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shelley

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Re: Horizon vs RS1
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2006, 11:42:35 AM »
If the RS-1 is not a light-oil ball, how can the RS-X be?  Seems as if that's going in the wrong direction.  For light oil, why not the Mercury or one of the Sonic line balls?

SH
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Roto-Mat

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Re: Horizon vs RS1
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2006, 12:54:18 PM »
quote:
If the RS-1 is not a light-oil ball, how can the RS-X be?


The RS-1 actually hooks *sooner* and *more* than the RS-X. To me, the RS-X is the bridge between the Planet line and the RS/Mid performance line. If the planet balls are a little squirty, but the Mid line balls are too much, the RS-X is the perfect fit. The normal way to attack lighter oil (or short patterns) is to keep your break point as far out as possible. If your ball is hooking early, that would be very difficult. A small caveat of what was said in the original post, "light oil conditions," not dry.
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Mat Henning
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BackToBasics

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Re: Horizon vs RS1
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2006, 01:23:31 PM »
I'd have to disagree with the RSX being a light oil ball.  With the high diff, low RG and strong cover I use mine on all kinds of mediums to medium-heavy...as long as there is a little head oil.  My RS-X is up to about 3-4 stronger than my Saturn, especially as the oil gets heavier because the Saturn just doesn't pick up.  It is much easier to get the Saturn to push than the RSX when the heads and mids start to go.

Depending on how light the oil is (i.e. is it long and thin? or short with good head oil? etc) a Saturn or Mercury may be better.
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shelley

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Re: Horizon vs RS1
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2006, 01:28:35 PM »
quote:
I'd have to disagree with the RSX being a light oil ball.  With the high diff, low RG and strong cover I use mine on all kinds of mediums to medium-heavy...as long as there is a little head oil.  My RS-X is up to about 3-4 stronger than my Saturn, especially as the oil gets heavier because the Saturn just doesn't pick up.  It is much easier to get the Saturn to push than the RSX when the heads and mids start to go.


Thank you.  That's exactly the impression I got from the website and many, many posts on here, and why I was puzzled at the recommendation of the RS-X for lighter oil.  Even the RG website lists the backend for the RS-X as more than the RS-1 and the length as less.

That's not to say that Mat's wrong.  His profile doesn't list how the RS-1 and RS-X are drilled, and it's certainly possible to make the RS-1 both earlier and stronger than the RS-X.  If that's his experience, then I can't argue much with it.  But my impression is the opposite.  Note that I own or have thrown neither.

SH

Edited on 5/24/2006 1:26 PM
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EboHammer4ever

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Re: Horizon vs RS1
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2006, 01:38:26 PM »
I agree with Ryan.  My RS-X is drilled 4 x 3 where my RS-1 is drilled 5 x 3 and the RS-X is smoother throughout the lane and picks up earlier than my RS-1 obviously with the skid/flip drilling and the RS-1 is more angular.  I haven't drilled my Horizon yet, but I'm pretty sure its going to have more backend then my RS-1.
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shelley

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Re: Horizon vs RS1
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2006, 01:44:08 PM »
quote:
I find the RSX to be stronger overall, but smoother on the back end, than the RS1 (I'm assuming this is because the solid cover isnt _quite_ as grippy on the back end.  I remember doing a video a while back were I threw the two balls 1 after eachother and the RSX covered more boards.


I just watched it yesterday, too.  Great vid.

SH
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Roto-Mat

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Re: Horizon vs RS1
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2006, 02:15:23 PM »
http://www.rotogrip.com/reactioncorner_reactionchart.aspx

Check out the "Cranker" column for both the RS-1 and RS-X.

I have gone through three RS-X's and two RS-1's, and had one of each drilled Identical (5.5" pin, MB strong, small X-hole on PAP). I have tried both in a polished and sheen state, and found both surfaces to be advantageous in the right conditions. I will use them in their box (polished) condition for this comparison. The RS-1 was almost always about 3-5 boards stronger and 3-5' earlier than the RS-1.

Granted, the Saturn does get through the heads better than the RS-X, BUT the recovery of the RSX is far better.

To answer slickboobies original question, here is a more precise answer:

If you are playing on a short/light pattern and will be forced playing further outside, drill a Saturn.

If you are playing on a long/thin pattern and will be force playing further inside, drill an RS-X.

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Mat Henning
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Champions Bowling Services


Edited on 5/24/2006 2:13 PM

Edited on 5/24/2006 2:16 PM

Edited on 5/24/2006 2:16 PM
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shelley

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Re: Horizon vs RS1
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2006, 02:25:25 PM »
quote:
Check out the "Cranker" column for both the RS-1 and RS-X.


Point taken.  But I should point out that SB didn't enter a profile, so we don't know whether he'll get something more like the "cranker" result or the "stroker" result.

SH
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charlest

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Re: Horizon vs RS1
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2006, 02:58:15 PM »
quote:
http://www.rotogrip.com/reactioncorner_reactionchart.aspx

Check out the "Cranker" column for both the RS-1 and RS-X.

I have gone through three RS-X's and two RS-1's, and had one of each drilled Identical (5.5" pin, MB strong, small X-hole on PAP). I have tried both in a polished and sheen state, and found both surfaces to be advantageous in the right conditions. I will use them in their box (polished) condition for this comparison. The RS-1 was almost always about 3-5 boards stronger and 3-5' earlier than the RS-1.
--------------------
Mat Henning
Roto-Grip Staffer
Owner/Operator of
Champions Bowling Services


Sorry,Matt, not sure what you got going, using all 5.5" pins, but there's no doubt in my mind that the RS-X being solid version of the RS-1 that it is a stronger ball intended for more oil than the RS-1. The RS-1 will flip harder and more backend ALWAYS makes it look like the ball is hooking more , and well it may be. It just doesn't handle the oil that the solid does.

I think you need to try other drillings for these balls to arrive at a true analysis and comparison. A single drill (no matter how many of them you drill this way) just doesn't provide you with enough data.

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Roto-Mat

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Re: Horizon vs RS1
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2006, 04:14:13 PM »
charlest,

Sorry I wasn't more clear. Whenever I get a new ball, I will usually drill one of them with a 5.5" MB strong drilling (a favorite of mine) so that I can compare one to another. I guess you would consider that my "benchmark" layout.

FYI, my other RS-1 is drilled 4" pin to PAP MB 15 degrees with a small X-hole on axis.

My two other RS-X's are drilled with the following layouts. One is 4.5" pin to PAP, MB strong, small X-hole on axis. The other one is drilled 4" Pin to PAP, MB 15 degrees with a small X-hole on axis.

As you can see I didn't drill all of them 5.5"

Also, just because a ball has a "solid" version of a certain coverstock does not automatically "stronger" nor "earlier" than another pearl version of another coverstock.

One more note, I noticed I messed up in an above post. This line:

"The RS-1 was almost always about 3-5 boards stronger and 3-5' earlier than the RS-1."

Should read:

The RS-1 was almost always about 3-5 boards stronger and 3-5' earlier than the RS-X

DOH!!
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Mat Henning
Roto-Grip Staffer
Owner/Operator of
Champions Bowling Services
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slickboobie

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Re: Horizon vs RS1
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2006, 06:08:32 PM »
I currently use a RSX but by the end of the first game I have to either put it up or move deep inside, I thought both being pearlized balls would allow me to play the same area after the RSX.  I try to do that now with SS Pearl but the ball has been brought back to life to many times and it is time to replace the pearl ball in my arsenal.  I also have Sonic Boom that I play sometimes when it dry but can only get to pocket going up the twig or pointing it directly at the pocket.  Hope this helps, really looking for something to play right below the RSX.

Thanks
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Roto-Mat

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Re: Horizon vs RS1
« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2006, 11:56:47 PM »
Mark,

As I posted earlier, for me the RSX is the bridge between the Entry and Mid line balls. If the Saturn is not reading early enough and anything more than the RS1 is reacting too early the RSX is my go to ball. I am soooo glad to see that I am not the only one in the world who sees this type of ball reactions out of these balls! And BTW. the Horizon is a monster of a pearl ball. I was very surprised to see where it fits into my bag from where I was expecting it to.
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Mat Henning
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Champions Bowling Services
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charlest

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Re: Horizon vs RS1
« Reply #14 on: May 26, 2006, 04:14:29 AM »
Matt,

The problem many of you may be facing with the RS-X is in its factory polish. I'm not sure what they did at the factory, but I believe what I originally saw in mine is what you have seen. I could hardly get mine to handle even medium-light oil and that surprised me. I had told Mark C that in private emails and noted how for such a supposedly strong coverstock I was disappointed. So, as I always recommend, I modified the cover.

(Note that I used one of my favorite drills on this ball also, 5" x 4", pin just below the center of the bridge, CG kicked out with no weight hole.)

At first I just sanded it to 600 grit. Now it hooked at my feet, on the same medium oil on which it had previously skidded about 55 feet, LITERALLY! Now there should not have been that much difference. Gradually I polished it back up to its original gloss finish, with Storm products, mostly Xtra Shine. The reason I kept polishing, insted of staying down around 800 or 1000 grit polsihed, is that it was still going too long. Still its ball reaction was much better than the original's finish.

I strongly suspect that the original finish has some kind of friction inhibitor besides plain polish. My ball is now back to the same level of shine as the original, yet it is much stronger than the original.

As far as I know the RS-X and the RS-1 have the exact same core, but the solid cover on the RS-X, Sure Grip Extreme, is supposed to be able to handle almost any amount of oil, depending on the finish. The RS-1's cover is the same as the original Silver Streak, except pearlized. I'm sure the RS-X's cover is stronger than the Silver Streak's.

If you feel like experimenting, try what I did. If it doesn't work, just polish it back up to the factory's 1500 grit and you should be back where you started. But I think you'll find the ball is now stronger than before, even if you did polish it back up to factory specs.

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