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Author Topic: not saying this is good or bad but every roto ball I've thrown.......  (Read 10213 times)

pchee2

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......does NOT come close to its intended reactions on their given lane conditions.  Balls I've thrown are silver streak solid and pearl, global assault, assault pearl, sonic x and retro blue.

Everyone knows what I think of the SSP and the Retro blue, but recently I threw 3 sonics all drilled differently and on med-dry it does not get an 8 for length and a 6 for backend like the web site says.  Its actually more aggressive than many of my other balls.  Will roll up early and hard on med-dry.  On this condition I give it 3 for length and an 8 for backend.


I like Roto stuff but I am in the dark if I were to guess what their reactions would be prior to throwing them.  The ball that has been closest to what they rate is the Assault Pearl but other than that all the other have been way off.  Good or bad?  I dunno.  They are good balls so maybe they are just "misstated."


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pchee2<~~~strokin the ball with cranker revs and spraying the lanes for an average of a buck 62.  This guy is full of STUFF!

Edited on 4/23/2003 9:01 PM

 

Jeffrevs

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Re: not saying this is good or bad but every roto ball I've thrown.......
« Reply #16 on: April 25, 2003, 10:06:51 AM »
I love Roto stuff, and Roger does one hell of a job over there!

Are the ratings a little off.....ok, sure, I'd agree there. However, they error to the strong....could be WAY worse...right ?

The Sonic X description on the RG website DOES say medium to drylanes, that's a big window ,..... so maybe it's not that far off?!?

Roger, ...that may work.....maybe testing can be done on new releases with different style bowlers, and maybe average the results....
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Jeff

Badger856

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Re: not saying this is good or bad but every roto ball I've thrown.......
« Reply #17 on: April 25, 2003, 10:20:33 AM »
Are the ratings off?  Well take a look at the fact that there is no standard for any company to base any rating.  Why is it one company rates go as high as 35 and another only goes up to 20.  Peach, can you explain a standard rating?

Mustang Guy

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Re: not saying this is good or bad but every roto ball I've thrown.......
« Reply #18 on: April 25, 2003, 10:27:49 AM »
I definitely agree Jeff, Sherm, KoMike.  Komike atleast you said it how it is, but with some respect.  Thanks for the information and I will make sure to work on that area of the bowling balls we come out with.

Thanks for all the information!
--------------------
Roger Noordhoek
Technical & Customer
Services Manager
Roto Grip, Inc.
Roger Noordhoek
Director of Marketing
Storm Products, Inc.
800-369-4402
RogerN@stormbowling.com

www.stormbowling.com
www.rotogrip.com


For all your Roto Grip Logo Merchandise please visit www.rotogear.com

pchee2

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Re: not saying this is good or bad but every roto ball I've thrown.......
« Reply #19 on: April 25, 2003, 12:42:33 PM »
Maybe you just don't get it.  If you read the title and my posts more closely you will notice that I said many times that Roto makes good balls despite the charts being off.  And I said it neutrally.  It doesn't seem like you can take criticism when there is no "good boy" to go along with it.  Just because I don't put a lolipop or a piece of candy with my posts doesn't mean that I am bashing.  You will definitely know when I am bashing.  You seem to be on the defensive/sensitive side.  And you say I have nothing to back it up??? What planet are you on?  So far Doc and komike have said the exact same things that I have and they have seen me throw the ball.  When Nicanor gets back he'll say the same.  So much for not having any back up.  You need to read and comprehend a little better without getting your underwear all bunched up.  I've said numerous times that I love the SSP and the Retro Blue so that means I am very satisified with Roto.  

Ok, I just went back and reread this whole post and I don't see how you drew your conclusions.  All I said was that roto makes good balls but the charts are off.  And I have continued to say that neutrally.  It seems like you are the one with a problem.  

For a long time BTM used to give ratings for their balls without references to specific styles.  However, now they have the styles stroker, tweener and cranker.  One would think that an informative chart would incorporate such styles.  Now when you incorporate these things into your charts and people rave about your information being great, then you can look back and thank me for all my so called "bashing."

And one other thing, please do no say the 'D' word (as in Hoover Dam) because its againt the ballreviews rules.  This is a clean bowling website and no such profanity is tolerated.  Scott and/or Leftside could ban you or, at a minimum, issue you a warning.

And Jeff, stop kissing so much butt.  I can say that a Super Freak will make a great dry to heavy oil ball and still be correct.  That's not the point.

Bucky I am not concerned with the ratings.  They can be any number for all I care.  I am soley speaking of the accuracy.

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pchee2<~~~strokin the ball with cranker revs and spraying the lanes for an average of a buck 62.  This guy is full of STUFF!

Edited on 4/25/2003 12:49 PM

Jeffrevs

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Re: not saying this is good or bad but every roto ball I've thrown.......
« Reply #20 on: April 25, 2003, 12:50:49 PM »
quote:

And Jeff, stop kissing so much butt.  I can say that a Super Freak will make a great dry to heavy oil ball and still be correct.  That's not the point.



How am I kissing butt, I agreed that they were off too !! How is that kissing butt ??

The window for the Sonic says med to dry.....based upon ALL of the reviews I've seen,...including yours......it meets that window.  Is the window large though, maybe too large...YES, it is.  Is that a butt kiss too ? NO...I'm actually agreeing with you to a good percent.

And by the way, Mr. "I pay attention to rules" there's no bashing people anymore either.............
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Jeff

tburky

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Re: not saying this is good or bad but every roto ball I've thrown.......
« Reply #21 on: April 25, 2003, 10:43:31 PM »
I have seen what has been posted on this ball so I will give you my read on the ball. My axis is 5-1/8" x 1/2" up with ball speed 17-18 mph. The ball has about a 2-7/8" pin from cg.  The layout I did was pin 4" from axis and cg was 4-1/2" from axis and slightly down. No weight hole needed. This ball got lots of length for me and did not jerk out of the dry. Pretty much smooth reaction. I would say that I got approximately 1-3/4" to 2" of flare(did not measure). I read this ball reaction very well as it goes down the lane and the reaction is very predictable. I certainly enjoyed banking it off the dry right and not have over reaction.  This is my first roto ball and it is very close as to what was advertised. I roll the ball very smoothly down the lane and I don't grab the ball at the bottom of my swing.  The thing for everyone to remember is that everyone is not going to match up to a particular ball and probably the ball will not react identically to the advertisements. Most of the times there are differences.  Not to put anyones game down, if this ball is early off your hand then chances are you are grabbing the ball at the bottom of your swing or the heads are burned up.

Nicanor

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Re: not saying this is good or bad but every roto ball I've thrown.......
« Reply #22 on: April 27, 2003, 08:36:40 AM »
I just got back from Fremont where Pchee2 and I both threw our Sonic X and the Sliver Streak Pearl.  The Silver Streal Pearl only flipped strong on short oil.  On a Christmas tree oil pattern the SSP didn't jump til the end of the oil pattern but did not jump.  It won't jump over the oil but followed it.  With Pchee2's rev rate, he could get the SSP to make a left hand turn in the short oil or fairly dry lane conditions.  I didn't have the ball speed or the revs to use the ball on short oil but on a regular league shot with no carry down the ball worked well for me.  Not flippy at all.

The Sonic X is not a dry lane ball.  Maybe better for dry lane conditions then other reactives, but no way is the Sonic X a dry lane ball.  Now maybe the Sonic which was an overseas ball was good for dry lanes, but the Sonic X was a souped up Sonic and too strong for dry lanes especially if the heads are dry.  It is a good short oil ball or light oil ball, but even with Roger's recommended drilling, too strong for dsry lanes IMHO.

V/R,
Nicanor
Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)

JOE FALCO

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Re: not saying this is good or bad but every roto ball I've thrown.......
« Reply #23 on: April 27, 2003, 10:09:19 AM »
MR PCHEE2 .. Like all of us who post in this site .. YOU ARE ENTITLED TO AN OPINION! I, for one, am glad you tell it as you see it! I hope you see that there was some fruit to what you brought forth .. apparently there are plans to MAKE CHANGES IN FUTURE RATINGS.

Please continue what you are doing .. your comments are being HEARD! Thanks!

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Hit them light and watch them fight
      J O E  F A L C O
RIP Thongprincess/Sawbones!

omega

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Re: not saying this is good or bad but every roto ball I've thrown.......
« Reply #24 on: April 28, 2003, 07:36:00 AM »
I own the  15 lb Sonic X and drilled 5 x 4 1/2. I have med revs and med speed. with this drilling i'm able to get a nice roll break about ten boards into the pocket. I let my coworker try out my ball when he threw this ball out to the twenty board and out to the fifth boad and came back into the pocket. Well my point if a company has a certain drilling chart recommendation that does not mean that every bowler is going to get the same reaction from that same drilling pattern. So to  Mustang Guy i would not worry about coming out with drilling recommendations to fit everybody, that would be difficult task. I think to many bowler all they wan to do is rip the cover of bowling balls and not learn to be a versatile type player. I will leave you with this. Different strokes for different folks.

pchee2

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Re: not saying this is good or bad but every roto ball I've thrown.......
« Reply #25 on: April 29, 2003, 01:09:42 AM »
I got the sonic for when the heads start to go, not totally go, but just begin to go and its still too much ball.  And no I don't grab it at the bottom my hand is completely open and I push it.  So don't pretend to know how I tested this ball.  Its also very easy to create a chart for the 3 mainstream categories of stroker, tweener and cranker.  

In fact, this weekend I bowled in a tourney and I was placed on a team where I didn't know 2 other people.  One of the guys is a Storm/Roto fan and he had the sonic x in his bag.  He's an all around medium type of player.  I asked him how he liked his sonic and he said it was way more aggressive than he thought it would be and he was greatly disappointed in it being too strong.  He said that he hated the sonic x and that the Hot Rod is a much better ball.  And no I am not slamming Roto I am only stating what this guy said and I don't even know him.   He even asked me if I wanted to buy his Sonic.  Then I reached in my bag and showed him mine.  He quickly told me to sell it.

I got the chance to throw the overseas sonic and do a side by side comparison with the sonic x later that day and I found that the overseas sonic is a ball that fits the sonic x charts.  It was much easier through the heads and less oil hungry than the sonic x.  So yes Nicanor I do agree that the overseas sonic is more of a dry lane ball.

I like the shape of the sonic x's backend and I like its hitting and carrying power I just wish it was not so oil hungry up front.   Today the heads started to go so after playing with it for a while I got a better reaction from it when I dropped my track to 3 inches off the thumb and finger holes while putting no more than 45 degrees of rotation on it.  Once I raised my track up to a normal semi roller it was way too aggressive and too early.  If I kept the low track and put more than 45 degrees on it the ball was too over/under and very unpredictable on the backend.  Ball was very release specific.

Joe, I was actually trying to be informative and helpful to Roto since I like their stuff but it seems like their leader and loyalists are too quick on the defensive to comprehend what they read even if it was for Roto's benefit.  I throw mostly Lane 1 and Storm, but I do have a few Roto balls that I throw often.  

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pchee2<~~~strokin the ball with cranker revs and spraying the lanes for an average of a buck 62.  This guy is full of STUFF!

charlest

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Re: not saying this is good or bad but every roto ball I've thrown.......
« Reply #26 on: April 29, 2003, 05:24:17 AM »
pchee2,

The "overseas" Sonic IS the Storm Blue Hot Flame (except RG made it green). I saw it for sale about a year ago on Ebay with full details. For me the BHF is the premier DRY lane (virtually) 2-piece resin ball ever made. I'd strongly suggest you pick one up; they are still available, even though they are no longer made.
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

Mustang Guy

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Re: not saying this is good or bad but every roto ball I've thrown.......
« Reply #27 on: April 29, 2003, 07:28:57 AM »
The Sonic II is what you are referring to charlest...and yes it was an overseas ball (basic 4 piece construction).  The ORIGINAL sonic X that went overseas on a 1 time deal were much weaker (same core design with slight differences, but didn't have enough DIFF.) and for a modified 2 piece core design it was NOT strong enough.  Not enough ball for that price point.  I have nothing more to say on this thread but thank you to the people who made there comments and concerns about what they thought the ball was going to do and what it actually did for you.  As for Patrick (pchee2) you keep saying how this was all to benefit Roto Grip and to inform us and to help us...I still believe you are full of it because all you have done is stirred up a lot of trouble and made a scene.  If you really wanted to be of any help you would have had the respect to call me or email me and voice your questions and concerns in the manner you did.  If you HONESTLY wanted to help as you so put it you would have done what I just said and not continued on in making this a BIG ISSUE on BALLREVIEWS.  But from what everyone has told me about you...these kind of actions don't surprise me one bit.  

Thanks,
--------------------
Roger Noordhoek
Technical & Customer
Services Manager
Roto Grip, Inc.
Roger Noordhoek
Director of Marketing
Storm Products, Inc.
800-369-4402
RogerN@stormbowling.com

www.stormbowling.com
www.rotogrip.com


For all your Roto Grip Logo Merchandise please visit www.rotogear.com

pchee2

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Re: not saying this is good or bad but every roto ball I've thrown.......
« Reply #28 on: April 29, 2003, 11:42:35 PM »
Charlest, thanks I'll have to look into getting a Blue Hot or maybe the overseas Sonic.  I used to have a blue hot a long time ago but I let someone else have it.  

Roger, not only am I full of "it", read my signature line, I am full of STUFF!  I realize that you are rather young and may not see the big picture yet, but lets say that you and I had a conversation about how I think Roto charts are off.  All you would do is say "ok thanks" and nothing would be done.  Why?  Because its only 1 voice and everyone else's praise of the equipment would cloud your judgment into dismissing my opinion of the charts.  

Instead, I voice my opinion in public giving you a free survey and so far the majority of posters agree with me.  And this grabs your attention to the point where you now state that you will rework the charts.  Do you see it yet?  In case you don't, which I must assume because so far your reading comprehension has been less than stellar, my publicity has given you opinions of people who would have not ordinarily given you their opinions.  So in effect, I have brought out people's thoughts regarding the charts and these people would have not said a thing if it wasn't for my public voice.  See it now?   Me contacting you gets you 1 voice, whereas me publicly voicing my opinion gets you many voices and even voices of people who you talk to on a regular basis thereby giving you a survey.  If you don't get it you are hopeless.  

So far many, and I mean MANY, people have told me that I am just wasting my time with you because you just can't see further than your own nose.  I find it rather funny that some people have pacified you by telling you about me.  But if these people know me well enough they will also tell you that I am not bashing because they can tell the difference when I bash and when I don't.  

I don't know, maybe you are still mad that your girlfriend left you and mad that I made fun of you for turning to a bowling website and publically asking these people with great desparation to help you hook up with chicks.   If you're still mad about that you need to get over it.  

Oh, by the way, when have you ever seen posts in Roto's section get so many views and replies with various opinions in such a short amount of time?  Yeah I didn't think so.

And thanks for entertaining the thought of me working at Roto, however, I would decline any such offer.  But one thing is for sure, if I did work at Roto I'd make sure you do more than get me my coffee, fax my paperwork and book my appointments.  I may even let you operate the copy machine.  

Like I said before, you may hate me now but you will thank me later when you finally open your eyes and see the big picture.  So after Roto reworks the charts and people praise them I will take each of those praises as an inherent thank you pchee2.


 




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pchee2<~~~strokin the ball with cranker revs and spraying the lanes for an average of a buck 62.  This guy is full of STUFF!


Edited on 4/29/2003 11:55 PM

SrKegler

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Re: not saying this is good or bad but every roto ball I've thrown.......
« Reply #29 on: April 30, 2003, 02:29:53 AM »
Since winter leagues are over I think the only way to settle this debate is for an impartial observer to try out the entire RG line and make the determination on how close the charts are.

Roger, please e-mail for the address to ship the balls too.

On a serious note, this is exactly the reason most of us stick to one ball company.  Once we find out the reaction we get out of a certain core or coverstock, we can then make an opinion on what equipment we need to fill the holes in an arsenal.

What I find amusing is the fact that MAYBE Rotogrip is underestimating the agressiveness of their equipment.  The typical league bowler wouldn't be caught dead buying a mild ball.  

One thing I have noticed from all ball lines though is that the charts are accurate once you have thrown one ball in the line to establish a base line figure.  Not sure where you would drop down to from a SonicX though.

Have Balls - Will Travel


RIP Thongprincess/Sawbones

Mustang Guy

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Re: not saying this is good or bad but every roto ball I've thrown.......
« Reply #30 on: April 30, 2003, 07:54:05 AM »
Are you done going back and forth yet?  Can we end this already?  This is really getting stupid and as far as a Roto Grip topic never getting this much talk or views ever...I would rather have some productive discussions with 5-10 replies than this.  The only reason why this has so many is because when people go back and forth like we have they see fight and they want to know what is going on.  Nothing more, nothing less.  You think you are some higher power who should get praise?  GET OVER IT ALREADY!  Do you like have to have the last word or something?  Is your ego getting offended?  You know what don't bother answering any of those questions.  We all know your stupid comments trying to put me down are nothing but you trying to make your self feel better for whatever issues you have with yourself.  I am allowed to be defensive because your being rude.  I come on here to offer advise and give people the inside track on new products and questions about current ones.  Not to argue with you.  By the way I never offered you a job and wouldn't ever offer you one.  You are talking about MY comprehension skills...I was being sarcastic seeing as how you seem to know it all.  One last thing about the top of your last post.  In regards to what I said about instead of trying to stir up all this trouble why didn't you just call me and talk to me over the phone instead of MAKING THIS A BIG DEAL.  Why...because of respect!  Because anyone in customer service will tell you that when dealing with customers who are nice, calm, and considerate we handle and react a lot better to that.  If you call me up screaming or approach the situation THE WAY YOU DID...then guess what I have and won't do anything based on what you say.  Maybe from what I have been told by from other people but your comments mean nothing.  I have read and listend and evaluated everything said in this topic EXCEPT yours.  Because it always follows with some more rude comments.  END THIS ALREADY....

Thanks,
--------------------
Roger Noordhoek
Technical & Customer
Services Manager
Roto Grip, Inc.
Roger Noordhoek
Director of Marketing
Storm Products, Inc.
800-369-4402
RogerN@stormbowling.com

www.stormbowling.com
www.rotogrip.com


For all your Roto Grip Logo Merchandise please visit www.rotogear.com