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Author Topic: Wrecker.. Very bad over/under reaction  (Read 6384 times)

302efi

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Wrecker.. Very bad over/under reaction
« on: October 07, 2013, 11:05:21 PM »
 My specs in my profile.

I had my Wrecker now for about 2 months, Pin under bridge , CG at 45 degrees with a small, but deep X-hole.

When I first got the ball it was very flippy, pretty much recover from anywhere on a broken down THS. On fresh I had to tighten my line and play a little belly.

As of late the ball has been very over under,over hooks sometimes and under hooks others. Never a consistent reaction at all. I've noticed this at 3 different centers. I've adjusted the cover up and down with minimal results.

Any ideas ? My Shatter is acting in a similar way as well, but I don't throw that much. My other gear is a nice predictable reaction (Definat, IQ Solid, IQ Pearl), so its not me I would say.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2013, 11:08:24 PM by 302efi »

 

billdozer

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Re: Wrecker.. Very bad over/under reaction
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2013, 11:20:45 PM »
Idk all of my local centers have been putting out crap shots lately...and the super strong assymeticals have been the only thing working...rolling even with a nice move off the spot.

My wrecker has been great however I only use it on wood lanes...where it seems to really shine.

My reaction has diminished sonewhat but it is still very controllable.
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Matt Fortney

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Re: Wrecker.. Very bad over/under reaction
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2013, 11:24:09 PM »
Have the surface changes that you've tried only involved sanding to a different grit and adding polish? Or have you tried taking the polish off all together?

Also, what's the lowest grit abralon or paper you went down to before adding polish?

302efi

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Re: Wrecker.. Very bad over/under reaction
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2013, 11:58:04 PM »
I've tried 800 + polish....2000 + polish....4000 + polish


I've yet to dry a unpolished surface....hmmm


One center I bowl in is a very high price mens league that can not afford to put out a crappy shot..always spot on there

billdozer

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Re: Wrecker.. Very bad over/under reaction
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2013, 12:02:50 AM »
One guy I know did take the polish off his...smoothed it out big time. 
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302efi

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Re: Wrecker.. Very bad over/under reaction
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2013, 12:34:17 AM »
One guy I know did take the polish off his...smoothed it out big time. 

I have my own spinner, so another surface change is no problem. How smooth are you talking ? I think I'm a try it at 1000 dull tomorrow morning.

From past exp, sanded pearls isnt really that well off my hands..I know the Wrecker is 1/2 & 1/2 though

Rightycomplex

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Re: Wrecker.. Very bad over/under reaction
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2013, 06:17:10 AM »
I've been playing with the surface on mine as well and the best I've found is a green scotch bright, which is equivalent to a 1000. It was older so I'm going to say 1500 maybe closer to 2000. It really smoothed out the Wrecker and made it playable when I had to move deeper. I'm not a huge fan of Pin Down on flippy balls like the Wrecker, it will tend to want to get the ball flaring out of your hand rather than down lane like intended and its murder on the tilt of the ball, especially if you're up the back like Scott is.
My suggestion if you want to smooth out a flippy ball is to go with a "label" drilling, pin at 3" or less for control, pin at 3-4" for more flare and overall reaction but still smoother than pin high or puke out on pin down.
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scotts33

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Re: Wrecker.. Very bad over/under reaction
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2013, 06:26:41 AM »
I've been playing with the surface on mine as well and the best I've found is a green scotch bright, which is equivalent to a 1000. It was older so I'm going to say 1500 maybe closer to 2000. It really smoothed out the Wrecker and made it playable when I had to move deeper. I'm not a huge fan of Pin Down on flippy balls like the Wrecker, it will tend to want to get the ball flaring out of your hand rather than down lane like intended and its murder on the tilt of the ball, especially if you're up the back like Scott is.
My suggestion if you want to smooth out a flippy ball is to go with a "label" drilling, pin at 3" or less for control, pin at 3-4" for more flare and overall reaction but still smoother than pin high or puke out on pin down.

Interesting....I drilled a Motiv Tribal w/ strong Fusion Pearl cover OOB 5" pin to PAP pin under bridge no x hole and love it on house patterns especially after they are broke in some great thru transition and moving in.  Also had a RG Solid Nomad OOB same layout that I shot 800 with.  I guess my stats. match up better than most when using this type of layout. 
Scott

Rightycomplex

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Re: Wrecker.. Very bad over/under reaction
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2013, 06:41:11 AM »
I've been playing with the surface on mine as well and the best I've found is a green scotch bright, which is equivalent to a 1000. It was older so I'm going to say 1500 maybe closer to 2000. It really smoothed out the Wrecker and made it playable when I had to move deeper. I'm not a huge fan of Pin Down on flippy balls like the Wrecker, it will tend to want to get the ball flaring out of your hand rather than down lane like intended and its murder on the tilt of the ball, especially if you're up the back like Scott is.
My suggestion if you want to smooth out a flippy ball is to go with a "label" drilling, pin at 3" or less for control, pin at 3-4" for more flare and overall reaction but still smoother than pin high or puke out on pin down.

Interesting....I drilled a Motiv Tribal w/ strong Fusion Pearl cover OOB 5" pin to PAP pin under bridge no x hole and love it on house patterns especially after they are broke in some great thru transition and moving in.  Also had a RG Solid Nomad OOB same layout that I shot 800 with.  I guess my stats. match up better than most when using this type of layout.

Scott,
Great points. I'm not saying you can't do it, but in a ball like the Wrecker with a weaker cover and Medium RG and diff ball only guys with a lower tilt and higher axis rotation will see maximum success. Balls with a stronger cover, i.e. Crossroad, Rumble, Deranged, etc. will be a better option of pin down. Your Tribal is a lower RG ball (I think) so it's going to want to start up sooner like the Tour Pearl. Balls like the Wrecker want to get downlane (core and cover), pin under gets the ball started, it's kind of an oxymoron. So I don't normally suggest it unless it's for a guys with a low tilt and/or high axis rotation. It's just too inconsistent.
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scotts33

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Re: Wrecker.. Very bad over/under reaction
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2013, 06:51:09 AM »
Quote
Your Tribal is a lower RG ball (I think) so it's going to want to start up sooner like the Tour Pearl.

Nope RC Tribal 14's are 2.56 .038 Fusion Pearl is a very strong cover. 
To the Wrecker 15's are 2.55 .042 with 52ML hybrid not sure how strong that is but the ones I have seen are relatively strong.

My stats are in profile as you can see I have quite a bit of tilt and axis rotation can be varied as I move in I add more.  I tend to stay away from using the Tribal on fresh and go to after some wear.  The 5" pin to PAP allows a weaker layout without the over reaction you see in some Motiv vids of shorter pin to PAP layouts.  Tends to be rolly but not puke. 

I took my Venom Strike same layout and took it to P2000/polish and lower Rg 2.52 .029 and    Atomix Arc Solid Reactive so weaker cover great ball for house shots at it's OOB 3000 it did as you said puked with more surface playing straighter on sport conditions it's fine no over reaction but too much friction on house conditions generally.
Scott

Matt Fortney

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Re: Wrecker.. Very bad over/under reaction
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2013, 06:59:50 AM »
I had a similar problem as you're having with my Wrecker. I tried the same as you did, change the grit that was under the polish. What I ended up trying and had some success with, was after 500+polish I knocked the polish off with 4000 abralon. It smoothed it out just enough to make it more consistent, while still preserving some backend motion. It by no means made it a rolly ball, either. Don't be afraid to throw it dull, with an RG somewhere around 2.55 it should still get down the lane, unless you bring it down to like 500 or less. Good luck!

Matt

charlest

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Re: Wrecker.. Very bad over/under reaction
« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2013, 07:48:03 AM »
One guy I know did take the polish off his...smoothed it out big time. 

I have my own spinner, so another surface change is no problem. How smooth are you talking ? I think I'm a try it at 1000 dull tomorrow morning.

From past exp, sanded pearls isnt really that well off my hands..I know the Wrecker is 1/2 & 1/2 though


Going from the stock surface to 1000 grit dull is extreme. You're going to need a lot more head oil, maybe more than true medium oil. The ball is designed for light-medium to medium.

Why not try some intermediary steps before going to the extreme?
Maybe a plain 4000 grit: use 2000 grit pad to remove the polished version; then use a 4000 grit pad to finis it off.
Normally I'd suggest just taking a grey Scotch-Brite pad to haze the polish, but since you say you're seeing extreme over/under, try 3000 or 4000 grit for the entire ball.
Any duller and you've got another ball on your hands, different from you probably originally wanted.
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Rightycomplex

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Re: Wrecker.. Very bad over/under reaction
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2013, 07:54:21 AM »
Quote
Your Tribal is a lower RG ball (I think) so it's going to want to start up sooner like the Tour Pearl.

Nope RC Tribal 14's are 2.56 .038 Fusion Pearl is a very strong cover. 
To the Wrecker 15's are 2.55 .042 with 52ML hybrid not sure how strong that is but the ones I have seen are relatively strong.

My stats are in profile as you can see I have quite a bit of tilt and axis rotation can be varied as I move in I add more.  I tend to stay away from using the Tribal on fresh and go to after some wear.  The 5" pin to PAP allows a weaker layout without the over reaction you see in some Motiv vids of shorter pin to PAP layouts.  Tends to be rolly but not puke. 

I took my Venom Strike same layout and took it to P2000/polish and lower Rg 2.52 .029 and    Atomix Arc Solid Reactive so weaker cover great ball for house shots at it's OOB 3000 it did as you said puked with more surface playing straighter on sport conditions it's fine no over reaction but too much friction on house conditions generally.

I understand. Maybe you are an exception to my rule of thumb and again, it is my rule of thumb just from what I've seen work for people who have higher axis tilt and/or lower rotation. Other variables play into this as well, rotation, speed, lane conditions, layout specifics (depth of holes, position of weight hole and depth, surfaces, etc.). For me as well, with a Higher Axis rotation/ Lower tilt and High track, The Wrecker is over/under at times with a "label" layout so I can't imagine how over/under it would be with my numbers reversed.
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ImBackInTheGame

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Re: Wrecker.. Very bad over/under reaction
« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2013, 08:55:25 AM »
One guy I know did take the polish off his...smoothed it out big time. 

I have my own spinner, so another surface change is no problem. How smooth are you talking ? I think I'm a try it at 1000 dull tomorrow morning.

From past exp, sanded pearls isnt really that well off my hands..I know the Wrecker is 1/2 & 1/2 though


Going from the stock surface to 1000 grit dull is extreme. You're going to need a lot more head oil, maybe more than true medium oil. The ball is designed for light-medium to medium.

Why not try some intermediary steps before going to the extreme?
Maybe a plain 4000 grit: use 2000 grit pad to remove the polished version; then use a 4000 grit pad to finis it off.
Normally I'd suggest just taking a grey Scotch-Brite pad to haze the polish, but since you say you're seeing extreme over/under, try 3000 or 4000 grit for the entire ball.
Any duller and you've got another ball on your hands, different from you probably originally wanted.

I agree, a change to 3k or 4k should smooth it out.  If not, then try 2k.  I don't think you'll need to go down to 1k.

batbowler

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Re: Wrecker.. Very bad over/under reaction
« Reply #14 on: October 08, 2013, 09:19:46 AM »
I'm more in agreement with Charlest. I do that to most of my equipment with a 4000 pad or as he stated a 2000 then 4000. I try to put a finish on that I know is easy to duplicate. Nothing against box finish, but I don't want a finish that I have to stand on one foot with a full moon and only on Thursday! lol Repeating a box finish is to troublesome and I'd prefer a finish I can put on with ease. Just my $.02, Bruce
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