BallReviews

Equipment Boards => Storm => Topic started by: charlest on January 06, 2017, 02:53:14 PM

Title: Help me understand Marketing 101: Timeless.
Post by: charlest on January 06, 2017, 02:53:14 PM
R2S hybrid over a medium-high RG, high differential core = Hy-Road.
Add Belmonte's name, change the name of the ball to Timeless and you can add $50 to the price?
Hy-Road - $119.95, Timeless - $169.95

Do I have the right picture?
If so, I've been in the wrong business.
Title: Re: Help me understand Marketing 101: Timeless.
Post by: Gunso on January 06, 2017, 03:16:58 PM
I'm loving this signature line as I love urethane and can't wait for their signature line with Jesper Svensson. Hopefully it will be a much more dynamic core then the urethane offerings of today. Somewhere along the lines of the sword u or rotogrip fame u would be awesome
Title: Re: Help me understand Marketing 101: Timeless.
Post by: BowlingforSoup on January 06, 2017, 03:20:44 PM
Hy-Road bowlerx.com 112.95.Even cheaper timeless.Its all a scam want one wait 6 months 89.95.Can't believe people buy into this scam.Ball manufacturers need to be running the USBC they seem to know how to make money.Bowling alleys are closing left and right But ball companies are booming.Pretty dang amazing.
Title: Re: Help me understand Marketing 101: Timeless.
Post by: jman76 on January 06, 2017, 03:26:24 PM
I'm not going to disagree with all of the marketing hype, but I'll guarantee you that you won't be able to find a Timeless 6 months from now for $89.95 online. The Hy-Road is still over a $100 and it came out in 2008. Both the Phaze and Fight are still over that amount as well and they are a year old.
Title: Re: Help me understand Marketing 101: Timeless.
Post by: xrayjay on January 06, 2017, 03:27:21 PM
I'm waiting for the Signature "S" (senior) line

The PDW "suck it" with the crotch chop logo.

The Duke "hazard" with a smiley face.

on a serious note.... lol the $169 and knowing they're going off the hyroad platform just turned me off... I'll just stock up on hyroads..
Title: Re: Help me understand Marketing 101: Timeless.
Post by: CoorZero on January 06, 2017, 03:27:29 PM
As someone who believes that core numbers are what really matters and not necessarily the shape or individual cores themselves, I'm really not seeing the value in a Timeless over the Hy-Road. Like charlest said same cover, very similar core numbers, but adding Belmonte's logo/name to it makes it that much better? Meh. This one screams marketing ploy to me. Even more so than the usual stuff that comes with every new ball release.

Don't get me wrong, it will be a good or even great ball. I mean just look at the Hy-Road.  ;D
Title: Re: Help me understand Marketing 101: Timeless.
Post by: jman76 on January 06, 2017, 03:33:57 PM
I'm waiting for the Signature "S" (senior) line

The PDW "suck it" with the crotch chop logo.

The Duke "hazard" with a smiley face.

on a serious note.... lol the $169 and knowing they're going off the hyroad platform just turned me off... I'll just stock up on hyroads..

Do you think they could fit "Who do you think you are? I am!" on the ball? LOL
Title: Re: Help me understand Marketing 101: Timeless.
Post by: pears on January 06, 2017, 03:50:51 PM
To touch on the op's comment. I think it is unrealistic to think that a sporting goods company, especially one that users rely on preformance, can "one up" their previous tech year after year. I see it in softball equipment every year also. I mean, you can put any core with any cover stock and call it"new"right. People want different

Title: Re: Help me understand Marketing 101: Timeless.
Post by: itsallaboutme on January 06, 2017, 04:52:55 PM
I'm wondering where all the balls are being sold, since these ball companies are "booming".  I have contacts all over the country and the one thing that is consistent is that sales are down, even the internet guys.
Title: Re: Help me understand Marketing 101: Timeless.
Post by: charlest on January 06, 2017, 05:01:37 PM
I'm wondering where all the balls are being sold, since these ball companies are "booming".  I have contacts all over the country and the one thing that is consistent is that sales are down, even the internet guys.

Overseas?
Is their market on more level ground than here in the USA??

2nd question:
It seems like there are a LOT more balls beings marketed this year than ever before. I used to be able to keep track of them all, but now I am totally lost. Could it be there they're marketing more to hopefully catch some buyers unawares? Kind of like throwing a handful of darts at the target, hoping one will stick.
Title: Re: Help me understand Marketing 101: Timeless.
Post by: billdozer on January 06, 2017, 05:11:11 PM
I'm wondering where all the balls are being sold, since these ball companies are "booming".  I have contacts all over the country and the one thing that is consistent is that sales are down, even the internet guys.

Yeah idk what soups talking about. More product seems to be a sign of stuff is not selling. Like a shorter life span, the devour and hectic for roto went to clearance rather quickly...I suspect others will too. 

I also see that storm isn't performing as well on TV, or not as dominant.  I wonder if that has anything to do with their efforts on marketing. 

I hear more positive stuff on the scandals and motiv product than I do storm. And I'm a pretty happy guy with my storm stuff.

Can't beat that code black!
Title: Re: Help me understand Marketing 101: Timeless.
Post by: BowlingforSoup on January 06, 2017, 05:15:11 PM
If sales are down why keep pumping out balls every 3 months.The definition of doing something over and over is Insanity.You can't convince me they aren't making money.And as far as the Hyroad still being over 100$ is because they still make it .Lets see if 8 years from now the Timeless is.My money says six months its on clearance.Like a Phaze and fight what a dud.If sales are down makes no sense to keep making more.Guess all these staffers need payed.
Title: Re: Help me understand Marketing 101: Timeless.
Post by: itsallaboutme on January 06, 2017, 05:24:10 PM
Most are probably making a little money, that's the goal when you are in business.  You don't have millions of dollars invested in manufacturing facilities to not get some return on your investment.  I don't know of any that are charities just so their employees have a paycheck and you have a bowling ball to use. 

But I can assure you just as bowler participation decreases every year so do ball sales.
Title: Re: Help me understand Marketing 101: Timeless.
Post by: ignitebowling on January 06, 2017, 06:22:01 PM
Each performance category has a release cycle. Just pick any line and the balls released in that line and check their USBC approval date. You will see a pattern. It rarely changes it seems.
Title: Re: Help me understand Marketing 101: Timeless.
Post by: northface28 on January 06, 2017, 09:50:18 PM
I'm waiting for the Signature "S" (senior) line

The PDW "suck it" with the crotch chop logo.

The Duke "hazard" with a smiley face.

on a serious note.... lol the $169 and knowing they're going off the hyroad platform just turned me off... I'll just stock up on hyroads..


That's great and all, the real Hyroads, the good pours, are NOT EASY to find. People in the know, know. The good batches are fetching serious coin, not $100.
Title: Re: Help me understand Marketing 101: Timeless.
Post by: AlonzoHarris on January 06, 2017, 09:53:12 PM
More Diff and the cover did change to 2 parts pearl/1 part solid. I think what the real point behind the ball was that Belmonte isn't on fire lately like he was because the Hy-road isn't getting it done for him so he tried to modernize it. In all honesty, the ball probably rolls nicely but we'll see.
Title: Re: Help me understand Marketing 101: Timeless.
Post by: billdozer on January 06, 2017, 09:55:45 PM
I'm waiting for the Signature "S" (senior) line

The PDW "suck it" with the crotch chop logo.

The Duke "hazard" with a smiley face.

on a serious note.... lol the $169 and knowing they're going off the hyroad platform just turned me off... I'll just stock up on hyroads..


That's great and all, the real Hyroads, the good pours, are NOT EASY to find. People in the know, know. The good batches are fetching serious coin, not $100.

I got a newer pour, 2015....It's pretty damn good.  Idk if I got an above average one or what...But it exactly what my 09 is and was....Lucky me :)
Title: Re: Help me understand Marketing 101: Timeless.
Post by: 2handedrook12 on January 07, 2017, 08:17:31 AM
The 2014 and 15 Hy-Roads were pretty good from my observation. No experience with a 16.
Title: Re: Help me understand Marketing 101: Timeless.
Post by: Juggernaut on January 07, 2017, 09:35:13 AM
 Jeff, Jeff, Jeff, you poor man. How can you not see how much greater the ball will be after they change the name and the logo on it.  I mean, won't that nake ALL the difference?

 You ask a question.  You wanted to know if, since bowling is dying, why are they pumping out more and more balls?

 Answer: If most people had money invested in a cow, and knew it would soon die, would they hold on to it, or sell it as fast as possible?

 That question has a similar answer to yours........................................

 The ballcos dont care about bowlers, nor do they care about bowling.

 
Title: Re: Help me understand Marketing 101: Timeless.
Post by: charlest on January 07, 2017, 12:03:13 PM
Jeff, Jeff, Jeff, you poor man. How can you not see how much greater the ball will be after they change the name and the logo on it.  I mean, won't that nake ALL the difference?

 You ask a question.  You wanted to know if, since bowling is dying, why are they pumping out more and more balls?

 Answer: If most people had money invested in a cow, and knew it would soon die, would they hold on to it, or sell it as fast as possible?

 That question has a similar answer to yours........................................

 The ballcos dont care about bowlers, nor do they care about bowling.


They better care; without bowling or significant numbers of league bowlers (open bowlers don't buy $150 - $250 balls!), they die or go the way of Lane#1.
Title: Re: Help me understand Marketing 101: Timeless.
Post by: Juggernaut on January 08, 2017, 01:15:32 AM
They know its in steep decline, they just don't care. Not as long as the sales numbers get made.

 As long as they do, it is status quo.

They aren't spending their money to build it up, they're just trying to milk it until it does die.

 Like Columbia300, Track, Dynothane, and..........................Lane#1?

 Or until they sell it out.

 Like Brunswick is trying to. Getting out while the gettings good.

 Either way, they get the money, somebody gets screwed, and the cow gets dead eventually.

 Moo Moo Buckaroo.


 
Title: Re: Help me understand Marketing 101: Timeless.
Post by: itsallaboutme on January 08, 2017, 07:32:45 AM
Juggernaut,

As a consumer how are you getting screwed and why does it matter how many balls are released?  As far as I know you don't own or are involved with a pro shop or a distributorship.  No one is forcing you to buy anything.  When you are ready to purchase do your research and buy the best available product to fit your needs.  Just like buying a television.  Does it matter how many different models of a 65" TV Sony or Samsung makes or how many Best Buy carries?  No, you figure out how much you want to spend and buy one with the features you want.

And if you are going to blame the decline on competitive bowling on ball manufacturers, stop now.  We both no they aren't the problem.  If you think people like Bill and Barb Chrisman don't care about bowling then this isn't even worth a discussion.
Title: Re: Help me understand Marketing 101: Timeless.
Post by: HankScorpio on January 08, 2017, 10:07:54 AM
Lost in the conversation about how it's overpriced marketing (which I'm not disagreeing with):

It will probably be a pretty darn good ball. R2S is gold.

I won't be an early adopter, but if it lives up to it's hype I'll definitely get one. Why not? Not buying useful things because of marketing is just as foolish as buying things because of the marketing.
Title: Re: Help me understand Marketing 101: Timeless.
Post by: GlobalDestruction on January 08, 2017, 11:24:37 AM
There is no pride in ownership anymore, we all are looking for the next ball before the holes are punched in the ball we just bought.  It's like cell phones, you buy one and two months later a new one comes out and we can't wait until we can upgrade lol.  The manufacturers are taking advantage of consumer behavior nowadays.  PSO's have it tough as they have the classic devil & angel on their shoulders, one saying "oh this is the ball for you" and the other "you really don't need this ball" while trying to run a business. 
Title: Re: Help me understand Marketing 101: Timeless.
Post by: Medichal on January 08, 2017, 12:55:44 PM
nothing to do with this topic just plain disgusted had to vent my frustration espn go to hell they took off bowling today for basketball
Title: Re: Help me understand Marketing 101: Timeless.
Post by: tkkshop on January 08, 2017, 01:15:42 PM
So a taped bowling match vs a live basketball? You know they are going to air the one that will have 4 times as many viewers, right?
Title: Re: Help me understand Marketing 101: Timeless.
Post by: Medichal on January 08, 2017, 01:28:54 PM
many viewers will still watch bowling over hoops grew up watching bowling in the 70's and 80's had millions of viewers  watching saturday shows on abc with bo and chris
Title: Re: Help me understand Marketing 101: Timeless.
Post by: tkkshop on January 08, 2017, 02:04:04 PM
many viewers will still watch bowling over hoops grew up watching bowling in the 70's and 80's had millions of viewers  watching saturday shows on abc with bo and chris
if every usbc member watches bowling, which they don't, we'd have about a 1.5 million viewers.  I bet the basketball game cleared that with ease in just the local market.
Title: Re: Help me understand Marketing 101: Timeless.
Post by: northface28 on January 08, 2017, 02:21:53 PM
many viewers will still watch bowling over hoops grew up watching bowling in the 70's and 80's had millions of viewers  watching saturday shows on abc with bo and chris

You have no idea what you're talking about.
Title: Re: Help me understand Marketing 101: Timeless.
Post by: xrayjay on January 08, 2017, 03:30:37 PM
medichal marijuana
Title: Re: Help me understand Marketing 101: Timeless.
Post by: northface28 on January 08, 2017, 04:09:45 PM
There is no pride in ownership anymore, we all are looking for the next ball before the holes are punched in the ball we just bought.  It's like cell phones, you buy one and two months later a new one comes out and we can't wait until we can upgrade lol.  The manufacturers are taking advantage of consumer behavior nowadays.  PSO's have it tough as they have the classic devil & angel on their shoulders, one saying "oh this is the ball for you" and the other "you really don't need this ball" while trying to run a business. 

Nope, it's the American way to blame the companies, not the consumers. Yet on this very website, you have the usual suspects, 1 day after the No Rules is released, guys want a No Rules Pearl. Guess what? The day after the No Rules Pearl drops, guys will be calling for the Hybrid No Rules.

There's a thread here with someone saying the Gauntlet, which isn't out is stronger than the No Rules. Ball isn't out, yet guys can definitively say it's stronger than another ball we have lots of feed back on? Ok.

You baby boomers just don't get it. Clamoring for the glory days and the "back in the 70s and 80s". GIVE. UP. THE. GHOST.
Title: Re: Help me understand Marketing 101: Timeless.
Post by: djgook on January 09, 2017, 07:42:20 AM
As a Hammer head I will try the Timeless as I am a two hander(since it was influenced by a two hander) and this will be my first ball out of the Hammer line. They say Storm balls smells good LMAO (now that is a gimmick). Aiways wondered why people went to the pro shop to smell Storm balls.
Title: Re: Help me understand Marketing 101: Timeless.
Post by: Bowlaholic on January 09, 2017, 07:52:46 AM
Bowling slogan for 2017.........Join bowling, become a bowler and you to can have the experience of smelling balls! lol
Title: Re: Help me understand Marketing 101: Timeless.
Post by: MI 2 AZ on January 09, 2017, 02:49:13 PM
Bowling slogan for 2017.........Join bowling, become a bowler and you to can have the experience of smelling balls! lol

Well, that's better than the experience of having smelly balls.
Title: Re: Help me understand Marketing 101: Timeless.
Post by: spmcgivern on January 09, 2017, 03:34:06 PM
This method of marketing isn't any different than the Johnny Petraglia LT-48 (all renditions).  Ebonite had Earl Anthony balls.  Brunswick had an Aulby ball also.  If the ball performs well, it may not matter whose name or image is on the ball. 

However, I am guessing regardless of the performance, haters of the two-handed style will not be getting the ball.
Title: Re: Help me understand Marketing 101: Timeless.
Post by: millertime0299 on January 12, 2017, 08:49:25 AM
I'm loving this signature line as I love urethane and can't wait for their signature line with Jesper Svensson. Hopefully it will be a much more dynamic core then the urethane offerings of today. Somewhere along the lines of the sword u or rotogrip fame u would be awesome
If you want a urethane with a dynamic core, give the Visionary "The Crow" a look.  I just ordered one for that very reason.
Title: Re: Help me understand Marketing 101: Timeless.
Post by: charlest on January 12, 2017, 11:54:11 AM
This method of marketing isn't any different than the Johnny Petraglia LT-48 (all renditions).  Ebonite had Earl Anthony balls.  Brunswick had an Aulby ball also.  If the ball performs well, it may not matter whose name or image is on the ball. 

However, I am guessing regardless of the performance, haters of the two-handed style will not be getting the ball.

Sure they did but they also didn't add $50 to the price of a Danger Zone to set the new price for the "Name" balls!