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Author Topic: Red Sun Storm  (Read 10150 times)

mike_somd

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Red Sun Storm
« on: January 28, 2013, 04:20:20 PM »
A buddy of mine just drilled up a Red Sun Storm and loves the reaction.  He says it is the best he has had in a while.  He asked me what a similar ball is today, and well I just don't know.

According to Storms website, the numbers are RG 2.49 diff .050.  I didn't see too many balls that have those numbers and the ones that were close were retired storm balls.  Granted I didn't look at too many companies.

One ball that might be close would be the Fast?

Any suggestions.
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J_Mac

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Re: Red Sun Storm
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2013, 04:51:40 PM »
I find it highly unlikely that you will find a modern piece those core dynamics with what is now a weak "reactive" cover.
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mike_somd

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Re: Red Sun Storm
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2013, 04:53:18 PM »
I threw the ball a couple of shots and it hooks quite a bit for being as old as it is.
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J_Mac

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Re: Red Sun Storm
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2013, 05:08:08 PM »
Quote from: mike_somd on January 28, 2013, 04:53:18 PM
I threw the ball a couple of shots and it hooks quite a bit for being as old as it is.

Aren't house shots wonderful? What sort of lanes surface?
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charlest

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Re: Red Sun Storm
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2013, 06:56:52 PM »
Quote from: mike_somd on January 28, 2013, 04:53:18 PM
I threw the ball a couple of shots and it hooks quite a bit for being as old as it is.

Given how old that ball is, the coverstock is insanely weak compared to the weakest available today. In Storm's arsenal, that is the Reactor cover on the Tropical Breeze line. I'd have to guess that 90% of the ball's reaction came from the core. They just don't use such weak covers wrapped around strong cores like that today.
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2handedrook12

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Re: Red Sun Storm
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2013, 07:48:34 PM »
How about an iq tour pearl with a low flare layout?
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BrunsMike

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Re: Red Sun Storm
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2013, 08:51:45 PM »
IQ Pearl is very strong, I'd be more apt to say a tropical breeze would be about the closest in comparision. Natural Pearl is another one that might be worth a look if you can find one that is.
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Mike Zadler

kidlost2000

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Re: Red Sun Storm
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2013, 08:57:16 PM »
Tropical Heat would be a good bet. I would look more to the cover then the core numbers. You can easily increase the diff to be in the ball park of the Sun Storm. Even with a slightly weaker core, todays covers should make up for the difference.

Even with a Tropical Breeze, you can greatly increase the diff just by drilling the ball with the pin above the fingers. If you then add a P3 weight hole your easily in the ball park again with the diff of the ball compared to the Sun Storm.
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2handedrook12

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Re: Red Sun Storm
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2013, 08:59:22 PM »
Wowi went to a pro shop asked a similar question and he said he couldn't do that. He's fired!
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charlest

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Re: Red Sun Storm
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2013, 09:16:39 PM »
Quote from: kidlost2000 on January 28, 2013, 08:57:16 PM
Tropical Heat would be a good bet. I would look more to the cover then the core numbers. You can easily increase the diff to be in the ball park of the Sun Storm. Even with a slightly weaker core, todays covers should make up for the difference.

The minimum RG of the Trop Heat is 2.55. Not close to the 2.49.

Quote
Even with a Tropical Breeze, you can greatly increase the diff just by drilling the ball with the pin above the fingers. If you then add a P3 weight hole your easily in the ball park again with the diff of the ball compared to the Sun Storm.

How would a P3 or even a P4 weight hole raise the .009" differential of a Breeze to that of .050" of a Sun Storm? It might raise it to .015 or a tiny bit more, but that's nowhere even close.

A for effort, though.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2013, 09:19:59 PM by charlest »
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mike_somd

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Re: Red Sun Storm
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2013, 09:21:34 PM »
Lane surface is old Pro Lane that tends to hook a lot.  You have to also take into consideration, is that the majority of houses in Western Washington hook quite a bit.

I would say the Sun Storm would out hook my Avalanche Solid.  I am rev dominant, but my buddy is fairly matched.  He spins it a little.  He asked me for a comparable ball that is recent. 
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J_Mac

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Re: Red Sun Storm
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2013, 11:11:46 PM »
Might be a long shot, but a Black/Purple Tropical Heat with the pin in either of the finger holes and a flare increasing balance hole might give a similar, but stronger overall, look...

Drilling into the top of the core should lower the RG and a flare increasing hole will get it closer to the specs on the Red Sun Storm.

BUT

It's really hard to tell what the ending RG and differential numbers are on a 2 piece ball from back in the day...  Remember, the data on every spec. sheet can be thrown out the window once holes are drilled into the ball.
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kidlost2000

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Re: Red Sun Storm
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2013, 11:35:09 PM »
If you ever get time download the blue print software. You will see how quickly the diff will increase on a ball just by drilling the pin even with or above the fingers. Because of how much you take from the side of the ball it would easily put the diff close to .020 before adding a weight hole. Adding a p3 or p4 hole easily will take it up even more. Same for a weight hole 2.5" down your val from your pap.

After playing with the software and graphing the results the biggest factor in the balls reaction was surface. If I drilled a ball with a 3" pin to pap and a 5" pin to pap and over lapped the results they were almost identical. Change the surface and the results were much greater. The difference between 2.55 and 2.49 isn't what you think. Its a difference of 0.06 hundreths. The cover of either will be a good match to get the bowler in the ball park of his Sun Storm
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…… you can't  add a physics term to a bowling term and expect it to mean something.

charlest

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Re: Red Sun Storm
« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2013, 07:58:34 AM »
Quote from: kidlost2000 on January 28, 2013, 11:35:09 PM
If you ever get time download the blue print software. You will see how quickly the diff will increase on a ball just by drilling the pin even with or above the fingers. Because of how much you take from the side of the ball it would easily put the diff close to .020 before adding a weight hole. Adding a p3 or p4 hole easily will take it up even more. Same for a weight hole 2.5" down your val from your pap.

I know, no, have learned those concepts. I just find it impossible to believe that drilling holes is going to take .009" differential core up to anywhere close to a .050" differential.
If that were true in absolute terms, there wouldd be hardly any need for 90% of these complexly designed cores we have today.

Quote
After playing with the software and graphing the results the biggest factor in the balls reaction was surface. If I drilled a ball with a 3" pin to pap and a 5" pin to pap and over lapped the results they were almost identical. Change the surface and the results were much greater. The difference between 2.55 and 2.49 isn't what you think. Its a difference of 0.06 hundreths. The cover of either will be a good match to get the bowler in the ball park of his Sun Storm

But that's always been true. In practicality, we only have from 2.47" up to 2.60" to deal with. For slower speed bowlers, the difference between 2.49" and 2.55 is or can be large.

Besides this discussion of the core's dynamics, in practical terms, I myself wonder what the difference would be between this red Sun Storm and any current Storm ball. They'd have to be thrown by the same guy on the same lanes, but the results would certainly be interesting from an educational standpoint.
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charlest

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Re: Red Sun Storm
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2013, 08:00:34 AM »
Quote from: J_Mac on January 28, 2013, 11:11:46 PM
Might be a long shot, but a Black/Purple Tropical Heat with the pin in either of the finger holes and a flare increasing balance hole might give a similar, but stronger overall, look...

Drilling into the top of the core should lower the RG and a flare increasing hole will get it closer to the specs on the Red Sun Storm.

BUT

It's really hard to tell what the ending RG and differential numbers are on a 2 piece ball from back in the day...  Remember, the data on every spec. sheet can be thrown out the window once holes are drilled into the ball.

Agreed!!

As I mentioned just above, no matter what, I wonder what the differences would be in practical, ball reaction terms??
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