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Author Topic: Secret Agent.  (Read 6532 times)

BBock727

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Secret Agent.
« on: October 01, 2007, 08:00:59 AM »
I am about to buy the Storm Secret Agent from but I am not sure which Top Weight and Pin Position i should order.  I have bowled for quite a long time but I am not technically savy.  I am a lefty and throw the ball about 16-17mph with mid revs.  My left foot starts just right of the middle dot on the approach and i swing my ball out to the  8-10 board.  I average about 195-205 depending on the league, but I am always using old equipment and only use 1 ball.

I'll be using the ball in a new winter league at AMF Strathmore Lanes in Aberdeen NJ.  While I am not sure of the pattern, this league does not have fresh oil (there is a league right before this one), its a pretty typical house shot.  

I have a few questions:

1) I'm bowling on a lane w/out fresh oil, will the Secret Agent be able to handle this or will it burn up way too fast w/out oil.  

2) What top weight and pin position should I order for my style?  The proshop i buy from usually has 5 or less of each ball at 16lbs, so I am assuming if I dont ask for a proper topweight and pin position, they will just give me the worst combo.

3) Any ideas on what drill I should use?  I havn't seen the drill chart yet and I really need to tell him EXACTLY what i want or I will mostlikely get a bad drill.

 

toomanytenpins

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Re: Secret Agent.
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2007, 07:52:31 PM »
imho you dont want a secret.No recovery,very sensitive to speed and condition. More for straighter players with revs.
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my style, the art of bowling without bowling

riggs

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Re: Secret Agent.
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2007, 08:00:01 PM »
You can make a Secret Agent do a lot - take it down to 500 or 1,000 and drill it strong and it will handle a lot of oil, shine it up and drill it weak and you can use it on a fairly hooking condition. I have used my strong one on Shark and my weak one on Cheetah.

The one thing it will NOT do is make a super strong move at the breakpoint - that's not it's nature as the light particle road smoothes out the reaction from what you see in a Special.

I would ask someone (your pro shop guy) with direct knowledge of your game and conditions for specific drilling and prep advice.

BBock727

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Re: Secret Agent.
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2007, 08:40:40 PM »
So  toomanypins, what do you think i should get ?  A special agent?

Madrox

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Re: Secret Agent.
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2007, 11:10:43 PM »
I'd suggest either a t-road pearl, a surefire or an agent.  You're pretty safe going with a 3" pin and 2.5-3oz of top weight

scotts33

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Re: Secret Agent.
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2007, 11:20:01 PM »
quote:
So toomanypins, what do you think i should get ? A special agent?


Do what riggs said "I would ask someone (your pro shop guy) with direct knowledge of your game and conditions for specific drilling and prep advice."

He/she can measure your PAP set up the ball correctly and know what lane condition you face generally.

Get some good help from your pro shop guy.......otherwise it's a shot in the dark.
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Scott

Fluff E Bunnie

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Re: Secret Agent.
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2007, 08:01:02 AM »
quote:
imho you dont want a secret.No recovery,very sensitive to speed and condition. More for straighter players with revs.
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my style, the art of bowling without bowling


Hmm, I don't know about that.  Me and my friend each have one of these and while I would say we both prefer to play straighter, I don't think either of us have a lot of revs.

Now I say prefer to play straighter, but it the ball seems versatile enough to me.  This ball I can play straight when the oil is fresh and then it is powerful enough to swing it.  When you say no recovery, that confuses me because I get a ton of recovery.  At the same time I realize this is a pretty smooth ball and someone may be looking for real snappy reaction and this isn't it.  I don't know, maybe I am trying to play a different part of the lane or something but this one has been pretty wicked so far.

So far I have seen my friend destroy two different house shots with it and even used it on the Cheetah pattern (on synthetics) one week and got a really good series with it.  So condition specific, I don't know because I have seen it used on several conditions.  I also saw someone else using it on the Shark pattern.  I'll get to try it on all the PBA shots throughout the year.

If you want a ball that goes long and snaps, this is not the one.

Now that said, to the original poster I would definitely ask the pro shop about it because they are going to know the kind of oil conditions you are playing on and what your style is.  I haven't had problems with this one burning out yet and I am using it at 4000.  Now that being said, who knows how my style or lane surface and oil patterns compare to yours.


Edited on 10/2/2007 8:01 AM

BBock727

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Re: Secret Agent.
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2007, 09:57:35 AM »
My biggest issue will be that the lanes are not freshly oiled.  I have never bowled in a league where the lanes were not oiled right before bowling.  I feel if I grab a ball w/ dull surface (low #) then it will use up all its energy early on the dry lanes.  

Let me know what you think.  

Someone has to describe the reaction of this ball for me because the STORM charts are obviously deceiving.

Dan Belcher

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Re: Secret Agent.
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2007, 10:41:35 AM »
If you are bowling on a shot where the lanes have already had quite a bit of use, there won't be enough head oil left most likely to throw anything terribly aggressive.  You most likely will be better served with a pearl or pearl particle.  Without seeing how you throw a ball and what kind of lanes these are, it's hard to make a suggestion really.  However, if you aren't going to have fresh oil, I would strongly recommend avoiding something like the Secret Agent, Special Agent, or T-Road Solid.  All of those balls are going to want to roll too early if they find dry and they will roll out.  Other options might include the T-Road Pearl, the original Agent, Pyro, or maybe the Rotogrip Mystic.

But once again, talk to your pro shop.  Explain what kind of ball reaction you want.  Top weight and pin will probably be fairly irrelevant unless you need a very specialized drill layout -- the balls they have in-stock at pro shops usually have a very moderate 3oz or so top weight and moderate 3 or so inch pin, which leaves you a ton of options on how to drill the ball.

riggs

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Re: Secret Agent.
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2007, 10:51:12 AM »
What I posted a while ago:


UPDATE ON THE SECRET AGENT – After using my Secret Agents in several PBA regionals I can provide some additional information. First, this is NOT a ball that will give you a strong change of direction at the break point. I think this is a good thing because Storm has several balls that do that (SPECIAL AGENT, SHIFT, T-ROAD PEARL, FIRED UP, etc.) and having a ball that makes a smoother move provides another look.
Scuffed up to 1,000 Abralon (or duller) the Secret can handle the heaviest oil, including the 44-foot Shark pattern. I had success with my pin in my grip center Secret on the Shark pattern on the fresh at a recent regional where my Special agents were a little too sharp at the break point to easily control.
Left at 4,000 (or shined) it can be used on the short wet-dry Cheetah pattern. I was pretty much dead and buried at a regional on the Cheetah pattern this summer before switching to my Secret with the pin in my track and putting on a huge rally that left me 4 pins shy of the cut only because of a flush 9-pin and a flush 7-pin on strings in the 10th frame and 11th frame, respectively, of the last two games. While everything else I tried was just going through the pins too hard or blowing up and hitting weakly, that Secret gave me basically the entire lane right of 10-board with fairly good carry. The Secret's smooth move off the break point with that weak pin gave me control with power on that very wet-dry Cheetah pattern.
One other point I need to make is that the pin in my grip center 45-degree drilling DOES work good on house shots. In fact, I have that drilling in a shined up SPECIAL AGENT and it is a monster on house conditions – rolls in the oil and whips back when I swing it. In my T-ROAD PEARL it was too weak for heavy oil in the middle, but in the SPECIAL it works great.



From Storm regional staffer Jeff Richgels:

Storm's latest releases are modified versions of two of their most popular balls featuring the R2S cover that debuted in the Special Agent.

SECRET AGENT - The Secret Agent features the fast-revving EMC core and the new R2S LT Hybrid coverstock. LT stands for "light traction" – it's a light load particle - and Hybrid is for it being part solid and part pearl. It is designed to provide a heavy midlane roll for heavy oil while still making a strong move through the pocket – in other words, control and power for heavy oil conditions. It comes with a smooth 4,000-grit Abralon cover but should be easily tweakable.

I drilled two Secret Agents.

One is with the pin in my track, above and to the left of my middle finger with the CG in my grip center. I have a Vertigo drilled this way that I use quite frequently in PBA regionals on the difficult PBA conditions. The weak pin reduces flare and allows me to get the ball down the lane with relative ease and no sharp change of direction yet the 45 degree drilling still gives me good hit. I rarely can use that Vertigo on fresh oil, though, as it goes too long, so my hope is that a Secret with that drilling will be something I can use on fresh oil that gives me a similar look.

The other is with the pin in my grip center and a 45-degree drilling. This is another good drilling for tough conditions that isn’t much use on house conditions with a huge puddle of oil in the middle of the lane. The look of this drilling is similar to the pin in the track drilling but with an earlier pick-up and a sharper break point. I have a T-Road Pearl (usually hit with 1,000 or 2,000 Abralon) with this drilling that I use a lot in regionals when the lanes transition and am again hoping the Secret will give me a similar look that I can use on fresh oil.

I have only thrown my two Secrets on a fresh house pattern (with a very thin oil) that hooks quite a bit so whether they will work as I hope on PBA patterns will have to wait until my next regionals later in July. But they definitely gave me an earlier hook on the house pattern than the Vertigo and T-Road Pearl. The Secret with the pin in my track allowed me to go fairly straight down the oil/dry line since it made a very controlled move off the end of the oil. The weak pin actually gave a little too much skid when I pulled it into the oil, resulting in 2-pin combo hits. The smooth finish allowed it to retain more power than I expected for a light load particle on the hooking condition. I would bet this will be a great ball for playing an outside shot that isn't hooking too much. The pin in my grip center made a stronger move, as expected, forcing me to move deeper into the oil. It definitely made a stronger move on the fresh than the T-Road Pearl and went through the pins very strong.

I also would predict that with a strong drilling the Secret would be a monster on a heavy oil easy condition.

As far as where the Secret fits in Storm's line, I would put it between the Special Agent and the Double Agent.

I will post more information after I get to use my Secrets on PBA conditions and heavier oil. But it seems clear to me that the Secret is as advertised – a ball unafraid of oil that makes a strong but controlled move at the break point and through the pins. The one thing I have struggled with in PBA regionals this year is the fresh conditions to start and I am really excited to see if these Secrets will help me on the fresh as it looks like they will.

T-ROAD SOLID – The T-Road Solid uses the same core as the popular T-Road Pearl but features a solid R2S cover finished with 1000-grit Abralon. It is designed to cut through heavy oil, with the cover easily tweakable to a smoother finish for medium conditions.

I drilled my T-Road Solid with the pin over my bridge (about 5 inches to my PAP) with a 60 to 75 degree drilling. (I'm not big on measuring to the exact degree.)

Again, I have only bowled on the hooking house pattern noted above. Have to say I was amazed by the reaction I got out of the T-Road Solid. It rolled heavy, but not too early, read the midlane perfectly and made a strong controlled move to the pocket that I would describe as a forward rolling straight line angle with no discernible snap change of direction point. (It reminded me of some of the Charge line balls.) I could miss wide and it came back and mostly retained enough energy to strike. I could get it in and it held easily. I would estimate I threw 12 strikes in about 15 shots and almost all were high flush. To give some perspective, my 1,000 Abralon Special Agent with a similar drilling was blowing up at the break point on this hooking house shot and generally giving me way too much reaction to be usable..

I see the T-Road Solid as being an awesome ball for the wet-dry conditions most bowlers see most of the time, and that I see in a lot of the non-PBA tournaments I bowl in. In fact, I have a feeling it might turn into my benchmark ball for non-PBA competition. And it might be a real good ball for the softer PBA conditions that transition into oil left and dry right.

Again, I will post more information after I get to use my T-Road Solid on PBA conditions later in July.

Edited on 7/4/2007 10:49 AM

Edited on 7/5/2007 8:50 AM

Edited on 8/27/2007 6:47 PM

Fluff E Bunnie

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Re: Secret Agent.
« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2007, 10:53:43 AM »
quote:
My biggest issue will be that the lanes are not freshly oiled.  I have never bowled in a league where the lanes were not oiled right before bowling.  I feel if I grab a ball w/ dull surface (low #) then it will use up all its energy early on the dry lanes.  

Let me know what you think.  

Someone has to describe the reaction of this ball for me because the STORM charts are obviously deceiving.


Um, ignore those charts

I believe the Secret has a 2/3 particle pearl to 1/3 solid ratio.  I could be wrong on that but that's what I have heard.  

Like Dan said, you may not want something terribly aggressive on a late shift league.  This is where that pro shop guy can help out because they can see you throw the ball and they will know the conditions you are going to be facing also.

BBock727

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Re: Secret Agent.
« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2007, 12:32:55 PM »
Thanks for all the replies.  The proshop guys around my area are not much help at all, trust me.  Also, to make matters worse, I actually had my bowling ball stolen, so he wont be able to watch me throw the ball or even check my PAP.  I still have a Hammer MAXXX that i got like 7 years ago or so, but im sure my PAP has changed and I definately do not throw the ball anywhere near how I threw my normal ball (the MAXXX really doesnt fit me, is soaked w/ oil and doesnt hook).  

So, I am going to kinda work off your opinions.  My brother just got a SECRET.  He throws probably 14mph and puts very few revs on it and is very inconsistant w/ it, although he threw a 640 i believe last week.  I believe i should be able to control the ball a lot more than he can, but I do throw a decent amount faster and put more revs on it, so i cant really compare the reaction.  (i wish he was lefty so i could just try his!)

Anyway, im looking at the SECRET AGENT, T-ROAD SOLID, and SPECIAL AGENT in that order.  That might narrow things down for you guys to help me.   Again,  I am a lefty and throw the ball about 16-17mph with medium revs. My left foot starts just right of the middle dot on the approach and i swing my ball out to the 8-10 board. I average about 195-205 depending on the league, but I am always using old equipment and only use 1 ball.

The lanes are freshly oiled at 7pm and a league plays 3 games before we get to use them.  They are usually wet-dry with hardly any oil on the outside.

Thanks again for all the comments!  The league is Wednesday, so it seems ill be using a combination of my old ball which i have to keep my thumb out b/c the span is too small, and a lane ball.  (Ive used this combo for the past 2 wks and im avging 195, go figure!)

Dan Belcher

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Re: Secret Agent.
« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2007, 02:28:28 PM »
quote:
Anyway, im looking at the SECRET AGENT, T-ROAD SOLID, and SPECIAL AGENT in that order.

Fair warning here...

You said before you're going to be on a second shift league.  Second shift leagues never have a lot of head oil left.  And if you do not have a LOT of oil on the front part of the lane, you are getting yourself into a world of trouble by trying to throw any of those balls!

The Secret is basically a slightly longer version of the Special Agent and the T-Road Solid has the same coverstock as the Special Agent, just a different core.  All three of these balls need a lot of head oil to work.  Otherwise, no matter how you drill them, they don't want to get through the heads cleanly and will burn up their energy before getting to the pins.  Polishing them isn't necessarily the best route to getting a good reaction on that kind of shot either usually.

I strongly recommend sticking with something that naturally gets through the heads cleaner.  This would mean to me a pearl (T-Road Pearl, Agent, Thunderstruck Pearl, Jolt Pearl, Spit Fire) or possibly even a pearl particle that doesn't roll too early might work with your ball speed (Pyro, Shift).  I've tried using the Special Agent on my second shift league shot -- it was a waste of time, it rolled too early and left nothing but corner pins.  I needed a pearl surface to get through the heads and retain some energy for the backend.  (and I actually use a MoRich Awesome Revs, which is a pearl particle similar to the Shift, on my second shift league, works great for me personally!)

You might also consider driving somewhere else and finding a ball driller you feel like you trust better.  And let him see you throw that ball that doesn't fit you well and doesn't hook -- he can still get a sense for how you throw a ball and at least get close to determining your PAP (PAP doesn't depend at all on how the ball moves down the lane, it's where the ball is rotating when it comes off your hand).

riggs

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Re: Secret Agent.
« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2007, 07:53:51 PM »
Very good thoughts, Belcher.

Dan Belcher

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Re: Secret Agent.
« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2007, 07:22:59 AM »
quote:
Very good thoughts, Belcher.
Thanks.  It happens every once in awhile (what's the old saying... even a blind squirrel finds a nut sometimes)