Author Topic: 2nd 607A too early (Read 4872 times)

Neptune66 · « **on:** December 24, 2010, 06:52:15 AM »

Loved my 607A so much, I bought another with the main reason being to have one in the wings in case anything ever happened to the first one. But I made [what I now think was] a mistake in asking the driller to make it a smidgen stronger than the first ball.

It could be "operator error" (i.e. my fault) or different lane conditions, but so far the second ball makes it's move too early. The pin on all my other equipment is over the ring finger, but is to the right of that finger on the second (newer) one.

I don't blame the driller, but is there a way I can have the second ball adjusted to be more like the first without complete redrill? Would a well placed weight hole be enough to delay the reaction? I always thought the main purpose of a weight hole was for an earlier roll, but someone recently told me it depends where its put. That it could be used to delay the reaction too.

I am not unhappy with the shape or strength of the reaction. I love the flip this ball makes. But it's still at OOB surface (i.e. polished) and although i can use it earlier in league (on heavier oil), that wasn't what I was after with this particular purchase.

Thanks for any info suggestions.

Doug Sterner · « **Reply #1 on:** December 24, 2010, 03:02:17 PM »

Placing a weighthole in the thumb quadrant should help if your static weights allow for hole placement there.

You can also alter the coverstock with a finer grit under the polish. I would personally try a product like Valentino's UFO before I did anything else. Adding UFO is easily undone whereas a weight hole requires more significant work to "undo" it's effects.
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Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY
http://dougsproshop@aol.com
www.dougsproshop.net
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JustRico · « **Reply #2 on:** December 24, 2010, 03:26:47 PM »

Placing a weight hole in it, especially in the lower quadrant will make it be even earlier. This type of weight hole makes the ball read the mids earlier and be less responsive to friction.
Surface is what dictates length....so smooth the cover up. Not ALL balls come from the manufacturer with the same finish. There is the possibility of inconsistency with the surface prep.
I would take it back down to 500, then 1000 and the longer with 2000, then applying factory finish polish. Then see how close it is to the other.
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Formerly BrunsRico

67tbird · « **Reply #3 on:** December 24, 2010, 03:40:11 PM »

I know you're getting somewhat conflicting answers to your question... but here goes.
Both the guys are correct about changing the surface, thats your first move.
If that just doesn't do it for you, please direct your pro shop guy to http://www.morichbowling.com/Drilling/GradientLineBalanceHole/GradientLineBalanceHole.htm and tell him you're looking for a P1 balance hole.

Neptune66 · « **Reply #4 on:** December 24, 2010, 03:44:59 PM »

Thank you.

I suppose the surface could be different between the two, but both balls were bought from the same driller and both are OOB, and both APPEAR to be identical----except for the placement of the pin.

Main thing is it sounds like there are ways to delay/adjust the reaction without complete redrill. If it were a dull-finish ball, I would have tried polish already, but since it's already rather glossy (even though I am aware that underneath the grit can still be different), I was pessimistic that this would make a substantial difference in ball movement.

This driller is very knowledgeable and will probably be aware of the methods mentioned so far, and maybe others. I just didn't want to approach him and ask for a redrill, and I do want just a MINOR delay in reaction or increase in length.

I don't hate the new ball. But if I was talking to it I would be asking it why ot couldn't "control" itself and delay it's flip more like it's "older brother" does.

JustRico · « **Reply #5 on:** December 24, 2010, 03:48:50 PM »

The only type of weight hole that will delay or decrease reaction is a flare reducing weight hole....and is placed 2 1/2" inside the PAP towards the pin.
Manufacturers are KNOWN for having inconsistencies in surface finish. Appearance means nothing if there is grit or cut underneath the polish and generally cannot be seen. This will allow or make the ball react sooner on the lane.
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The views and opinions expressed by myself are solely those of mine and NO one else, nor are they affiliated with anyone else.

Neptune66 · « **Reply #6 on:** December 24, 2010, 03:49:13 PM »

And thank you "67tbird".

I haven't had a chance to fully absorb the Morich article, but will ook into that, and didnt see your post till after the one I just sent.

Neptune66 · « **Reply #7 on:** December 24, 2010, 03:54:21 PM »

And "JustRico" too.

I never really considered there might be any actual substantial difference in the surface. Although until posting here, I was thinking that if I logged some more games on the new ball, that it might settle down and go longer as a result of that. In other words go out of my way to use it and "age" it somewhat. Is that stupid, or could it work?

In fact... I dont think it's a huge number of games as I only had ball number 1 for anout 3 weeks before this one. But It was used more heavily and this ball is only 1 1/2 weeks old.

Maybe about 25 games on #2 versus 50 games on # 1. Could that matter?

kidlost2000 · « **Reply #8 on:** December 24, 2010, 03:55:35 PM »

I would try surface changes first. They are the easiest to adjust and don't require any plugging or redrilling.

You can easily go over it with 4000 then some polish to try for more length and the same kind of snap on the backend.
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Be good, or be good at it.

Neptune66 · « **Reply #9 on:** December 24, 2010, 03:57:56 PM »

Okay.

But will I need to maintain a heavy polish level? Or as the ball gets more use, maybe not?

notsohotshot · « **Reply #10 on:** December 24, 2010, 04:31:13 PM »

NO one has mentioned the possiblity of using a polish like Delayed reaction and I know there is another one but can't remember the name.

charlest · « **Reply #11 on:** December 24, 2010, 04:34:55 PM »

quote:
And "JustRico" too.

I never really considered there might be any actual substantial difference in the surface. Although until posting here, I was thinking that if I logged some more games on the new ball, that it might settle down and go longer as a result of that. In other words go out of my way to use it and "age" it somewhat. Is that stupid, or could it work?

In fact... I dont think it's a huge number of games as I only had ball number 1 for anout 3 weeks before this one. But It was used more heavily and this ball is only 1 1/2 weeks old.

Maybe about 25 games on #2 versus 50 games on # 1. Could that matter?

As Rico said, this is a possible place for inconsistencies. Making sure it is the stock 2000 grit Abralon + polish should not be a major problem.

I view the sequences for changes as, first, surfaces, second, weight holes, and third, redrillings, in order of complexity and ability to modify.

So, once you've established the surface stock basleline is true and the ball is still early ...

(ASIDE: I must assume you know that when you asked your driller to make the ball stronger, he made it earlier and hook more.)

First take the surface to 4000 grit Abralon and add the polish back on.This should make it longer and backend slightly less.
(NOTE: because the pin position is different, the ball reaction will always be different, no matter the surface.)

Next, if this is not enough, and IF you can get a white Trizact pad, this will take the surface to the 6000 - 8000 grit range. Then, again, add the polish.

If still not enough, or you cannot get the Trizact pad
(http://www.granitecitytool.com/node/17382),
http://wwhardware.com/catalog.cfm/ProductID/3M5XNHH2T%20A00M)
try the flare reducing weight hole, 2-3"inside the PAP, as recommended by RICO.

Worse comes to worse, put it aside (save for when the current ball wears out) or redrill it weaker.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
BowlingChat.net

River700 · « **Reply #12 on:** December 24, 2010, 04:52:37 PM »

quote:
The only type of weight hole that will delay or decrease reaction is a flare reducing weight hole....and is placed 2 1/2" inside the PAP towards the pin.
Manufacturers are KNOWN for having inconsistencies in surface finish. Appearance means nothing if there is grit or cut underneath the polish and generally cannot be seen. This will allow or make the ball react sooner on the lane.
--------------------
The views and opinions expressed by myself are solely those of mine and NO one else, nor are they affiliated with anyone else.

Have you looked at the morich article about the gradient line balance hole technique? Because I have a ball that has a weight hole drilled just inside my pap by about 1 inch and up some from the midline and it doesn't make it go longer but actually reads the midlane a little bit. You do realize that placing any weight hole closer to the center line above the midline is going to make it read sooner right?? The illusion is the hole appears to make it go longer but actually is making it read sooner having less reaction to the dry coming out of the oil. So just as Charlest said, doing the surface, then weight hole and then redrill if needed in sequence. You can make a ball go longer by putting a weight close to and straight over from thumb as it will raise the rg some and actually increase backend depending on size and depth. Also for the record, putting a weight hole on the pap is better for reducing flare and backend. If you disagree, go read the articles on the morich site and see for yourself.
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Bowling is fun, enjoy it, don't hate it

River700 · « **Reply #13 on:** December 24, 2010, 04:54:28 PM »

Another thing, is that anytime you have a decreased val angle the ball is going to read the friction sooner and harder based on the dual angle layout method on the morich bowling site.
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Bowling is fun, enjoy it, don't hate it

JustRico · « **Reply #14 on:** December 24, 2010, 05:05:32 PM »

River700
How many bowling balls have you drilled?
I need not read Mo's article....I know what does what thank you.
Placing a weight hole inside the PAP towards the pin decreases flare and increases overall length, due to flare or oil rings becoming tighter or more on top of themselves, which makes the oil stay on the surface longer, delaying or slow it's response to friction.
The path of the PAP, as it migrates while the bowling ball is traveling down the lane, generally is along a line that is either on or just above the thumbhole. Thus placing a weight hole in the lower quadrant or down the VAL, will indeed allow the ball to react earlier and read the midlanes sooner, as well as generally increasing the overall reaction.
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The views and opinions expressed by myself are solely those of mine and NO one else, nor are they affiliated with anyone else.

Author Topic: 2nd 607A too early (Read 4872 times)

Neptune66

2nd 607A too early

Doug Sterner

Re: 2nd 607A too early

JustRico

Re: 2nd 607A too early

67tbird

Re: 2nd 607A too early

Neptune66

Re: 2nd 607A too early

JustRico

Re: 2nd 607A too early

Neptune66

Re: 2nd 607A too early

Neptune66

Re: 2nd 607A too early

kidlost2000

Re: 2nd 607A too early

Neptune66

Re: 2nd 607A too early

notsohotshot

Re: 2nd 607A too early

charlest

Re: 2nd 607A too early

River700

Re: 2nd 607A too early

River700

Re: 2nd 607A too early

JustRico

Re: 2nd 607A too early