Author Topic: The Rising Drill Sheet (Read 12002 times)

jhutch769 · « **on:** October 23, 2007, 11:38:36 AM »

Hello,

We just got in a few Risings on Monday and before we drill mine, we wanted to take a closer look at the 360 degree drilling technique. Any idea where we can get more information on that? It says to look up trackbowling.com on the drill sheet, but neither my dad nor I were able to find further information.

We feel that the recommended drilling may be a tad too strong for me.

If anyone has any suggestions, it would be greatly appreciated.

I think my speed is 17 mph and RPM is 375-425.. can't quite remember all the numbers are on the other computer.. Have not computed my axis tilt.

Here are some links to some of my videos..

http://putfile.com/jhutch757

Thank you,

Joe

shelley · « **Reply #46 on:** October 26, 2007, 04:35:57 PM »

quote:
Right now there is three layouts you can place on the rising. The suggested layout that comes on the sheet. Then a pin up layout like you see on the layout sheet for the Kinetic. The other is a trick layout, you must know a bowlers pap to use this layout.

The Rising is arguably the most specialest, uniquest ball ever made. MB diff of 0.031, spin time probably under 5s, kind of purple. And you don't even need to know the bowler's PAP to lay it out. 6" PAP like mine? Pin up. 4" PAP? Pin up. You can even put the pin an inch above the grip center without worrying about the fact that for someone with a 6"+ PAP, you'll clip every hole on the ball. This ball is special and won't do that.

No matter your PAP, you can put the pin 1" above grip center. For some it'll be a 6" pin-to-PAP, some it'll be a 3" pin-to-PAP, but everyone will get the same reaction. Talk about high tech bullshti.

SH

Mark T. Trgovac · « **Reply #47 on:** October 26, 2007, 04:45:13 PM »

This was said by Ron, wed at the seminar when PAP for the normal layout was asked. If you have a guy who PAP is outside the wide rang that is the norm. Say a 3 inch over take the pin and move it one inch left so you place it 4" away and fallow the same degree for the mb. This would be the opp for you, 6" go 1 inch right with the pin and then the 45 degrees with the mb. This is me just usign my braing to what he said.
--------------------
Mark "scoot" Trgovac
C-G Pro Shop
Offical "Spokesman"
Youngstown, Ohio

Finishing THS book ave: 200
Finishing PBA Experence ave: 176
Finishing Composit ave: 194

Track HITMAN.

Tag Team Coaching Success Story.

shelley · « **Reply #48 on:** October 26, 2007, 04:51:52 PM »

quote:
Say a 3 inch over take the pin and move it one inch left so you place it 4" away and fallow the same degree for the mb. This would be the opp for you, 6" go 1 inch right with the pin and then the 45 degrees with the mb.

Had we not had one of the Chosen to share that information, we might never have known. It's not in the drill sheet. The drill sheet says "average bowlers" but doesn't say anything about what "average" means. Arguably the worst drill sheet ever puked into existence. Maybe if Ebonite had not been distracted by the inclusion of Actual Full Color Pictures, they might have bothered to take the time to present technical information to the non-Chosen experts instead of treating them like idiots who are lucky to notice that the ball is round.

SH

jls · « **Reply #49 on:** October 26, 2007, 05:01:35 PM »

quote:
quote:
jls,

So finding out for myself so I can give you accurate information was a no no on my part? Rick and I have always been for the bowler and it seems that you guys want to bash us now for doing what we have always done.

Damn, I hate to say it, but I agree with JLS. You can afford to drill several of these balls so that you can know for sure. That's great, someone should do that so that this information is out there. His point is that not all shops can do that and what are those shops supposed to do for their customers? If someone says "follow the drill sheet, this ball is so special that you can't just use standard layouts for strongly asymmetric balls", they are stuck with what's on the drill sheet and can't afford to do anything more creative because they don't know what the result will be.

quote:
It was stated to the pro shops during the trade shows that the shops that sign up for one of our packages would get access to the pro shop side of the site. This was Paul's idea to give the shops that belong to the Legion an edge.

And those that don't have "the edge", they're out of luck. The secrecy, the confusion, it only hurts consumers. How many shops are not part of the Legion and don't get "the edge"? Most? Hardly any? I'd guess that most shops are not part of the Legion, don't have the edge, and run a significant risk of doing stupid stuff with the super-special, super-secret ball. If they have to guess, because they have neither secret stuff nor the money to experiment, if the ball sucks for some customer, they blame Track. The shop doesn't want to deal with the hassle and doesn't carry this brand new hook monster, so they promote other equipment from companies that are actually straightforward with their customers (shops).

quote:
As for one expert saying one thing and us saying another....which of us are tied in with Track?

That's disgusting. You should be ashamed.

I'm all for high tech. New, neat, pushing the envelope. But you can't do good science without the free exchange of information.

I was a Track guy. I loved my Mutant. Whoever has the old list of Track Legion members may take my name off of it. I don't like the runaround, I don't like the secrecy, I don't like the implication that unless you're one of the Chosen, you better just be a good little monkey and follow the included drill sheet.

SH

SHELLEY, REV, hold on here, two guys agreeing with me in the same day.

am i dying? what have you heard?

carl / rick, not bashing anyone, just trying to point out, that there is way too much cOnfusion about this ball. and it could come back and bite track in the butt.

as i pointed out, one dist. told a pro shop, that if the pins are 3-4 out, the ball must be a 2nd. now, you know that is not true, but you don't need this getting out.

now what dist. said this, don't know, don't care, did not even bother to ask the person who told me. the point is, if it was said, and i believe it was, thats not good.

and i agree with rev and shelley, this stuff about joining to get an edge.

give me a break, do you people at track want to sell balls, or play silly secret agent man games???

all shops are paying big bucks for this ball.

release the drill sheets to all pro shops, and maybe tell your tech support people that not everyone can attend a seminar.

as i said before, storm's tech people answer you with respect!!!!

they don't say, " well maybe if you would go to a seminar"

next week, we are going to the "seminar"

will the codes be there?

?

--------------------
jls, proud watcher of womens golf

Edited on 10/27/2007 8:49 AM

Atochabsh · « **Reply #50 on:** October 26, 2007, 07:55:49 PM »

I bought this shop. The prior owner did not carry Track. This shop has not carried Track for maybe as long as its existed.

However the Rising perked my interest and I decided to bring one in. We could not go to the seminar due to it being during the week during business hours. But I bought one at the premium price not associated with the seminar and wanted to drill it up for myself to give Track a go. I personally have never thrown a Track ball, this pro shop has never carried a Track ball. But when I tried to get "the code", I was told the code was not available. And since the web site has no place for "the code" I guess I can believe that. However I was told to just use the recommended drill. I have used that drill personally a few times unsucessfully, so I really didn't want to do it again. I read into that...."just use the basic drill provided and go away".

Does this make me want to carry Track equipment? No.

Erin

C-G ProShop-Carl · « **Reply #51 on:** October 26, 2007, 11:11:17 PM »

I am in no fashion trying to be disrespectful of anyone.

I firmly understand the stance that you all hold in how the advanced layouts are being handled. I agree, if my shop was not a Legion Shop I would want to know as well. I would be frustrated.

I also realize that there are many pro shops that do not get online to read the forums here or ther forums at trackbowling.com. I cannot begin to tell you folks how many emails I have gotten daily since the release of the Rising. Rick and myself are busting our butts to help everyone that we can. We have been around long enough that you folks should know that we are here to help in any way possible. If you have a Rising and are going to get it drilled, please...ask us our opinions and we will continue to answer you honestly and with no bias just as we always have. We have information on a couple of the layouts. If you are asking for a reaction that one of those layouts will give you ofcourse we are going to suggest the layout that is going to make you happy or (for the pro shop guys) we are going to suggest the layout that is going to make your customers happy.

We have been doing this for a long time and we have not steered any of you in the wrong direction that I am aware of. We can only offer information that has been released to us.

Please, if you have questions about a layout ofcourse I am going to help you to the best of my ability. churd@trackbowling.com

-Carl
--------------------
Carl Hurd
C-G Pro Shop (owner/operator)
with locations in:
Youngstown Ohio (West Side Lanes)
and
Boardman Ohio (Camelot Lanes)

Track Intl- Tech Support
The Legion Lives @ www.trackbowling.com

Tag Team Member #1

TAG TEAM COACHING!!!!!!/Co-Founder

revTrex · « **Reply #52 on:** October 27, 2007, 12:56:56 AM »

Thank you, Carl, for offering your services.

However, I must ask -- what you are telling us is that, basically, you can't give us the layouts because, 1) you haven't been given permission to do so, and 2) all the layouts haven't been discussed with you yet? Am I correct in saying this?

We really aren't trying to bash, at least I think not. But this does seem incredibly ridiculous, and even you have somewhat admitted that.

You also mention that if we have a Rising, and want a specific reaction, we can ask you how to achieve that reaction. So, ok, I'll play. I have as many Risings as there are possible reactions. I want each one to have a different reaction, so that all my Risings can show all possible "Rising reactions." Which layouts would you suggest for Risings 1-X?

Thanks (and my apologies on the sarcasm).

jls · « **Reply #53 on:** October 27, 2007, 09:07:56 AM »

CARL / RICK, first i don't believe anyone is blaming you for the codes not being released. i no i am not. i blame track!!!!

second, thanks for your info you gave me on the rising. we are attending the seminar nest week, but since we are drilling some rising's this week, your info helped clear up some confusion.

especially when all of the balls we got had 3-4 or 4-5 pins!!!!

you said they can be drilled, and that they would react just fine. and they did. thanks again!!!

third, as for you drilling multible balls, that is great, so you can indeed pass on the info.

however, please understand, many customers can not really afford to experiment
with different drillings on a $200 ball.

so they expect it right the first time. and if there is certain drillings that
may pertain to this new wieght block, i feel that the pro shops PAYING track big bucks for this ball, deserve that info.

whether or not they join the legion!!!!!

now i was told since we bought the "package", that we are in the "legion"
yet we have no codes!!!!!

when this new guy took over as brand manager, there where more then a few that posted about him. most where not nice. if he is going to play this silly secret agent man stuff. i now can see why!!!

right now there are so many good quality balls on the market. pro shops really
don't need any hassles when it comes to drilling new models. and as you probably well know, that when balls become "non driller friendly" they die!!!

thus the term was born>>>"driller friendly"

maybe this new track brand manager, never heard of that!!!!!!!!!!!!

being a pro shop guy, carl / rick, you probably do know that "MOST" sales made in pro shops, are based on the drillers "recomendations".

there are only a few balls that customers actually come in and ask for.

black widow, black widow pearl, nvs, toxic,

just about all other balls are sold by "recomendation"

this new brand manager keeps playing games with "codes", and more and more shops will ignore this ball.

and that would be a shame>>> cause its a good ball!!!!!!!!!!

tell him to wake up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
stop playing silly code games, release all drilling info to pro shops paying "big bucks" for this ball.

thankyou.

--------------------
jls, proud watcher of womens golf

jls · « **Reply #54 on:** October 27, 2007, 10:02:43 AM »

quote:
Right now there is three layouts you can place on the rising. The suggested layout that comes on the sheet. Then a pin up layout like you see on the layout sheet for the Kinetic. The other is a trick layout, you must know a bowlers pap to use this layout. Pin to pap is 4", Pin to val is 2", mb to pap is 4" mb to val is 1". This is the trick layout. If you want another layout and your proshop isnt a legion member for the proshop side of the website. You can go join the forums and ask rick or carl for help and get a layout for you. Heck if your proshop wants some other layouts they can do the same.
--------------------
Mark "scoot" Trgovac
C-G Pro Shop
Offical "Spokesman"
Youngstown, Ohio

Finishing THS book ave: 200
Finishing PBA Experence ave: 176
Finishing Composit ave: 194

Track HITMAN.

Tag Team Coaching Success Story.

carl, i know its early, and i have not yet had my 3 cups of McDonalds coffee,
but this "trick" layout, pin 4" to pap, pin 2" to val, mb to pap is 4", and mb to val 1">>>> sounds kinda sorta familiar.

let me think, while sipping my "McDonalds" premium raost coffee. yes i got it. why it sounds and looks like something i "believe" i saw on a storm drill sheet>>> for like the last 2 years!!!!!!

and this is what we need a code for?

?

your kidding me right,
here i thought, since pro shops would need a code, that we where really getting something new. "foolio" on us!!!!!!!

its pretty much in just about every storm highend ball box!!!!

now carl, please don't feel that we are bashing you, cause we are not.
i seriously doublt that this was your brain child idea.

and once again, thanks for the pre seminar advise you gave us!!!!!!

like i said, i blame track!!!!

i 'll bet the storm people will be getting a real laugh out of this!!!!

--------------------
jls, proud watcher of womens golf

Edited on 10/27/2007 10:59 AM

Mark T. Trgovac · « **Reply #55 on:** October 27, 2007, 11:03:32 AM »

JLS,

Carl put that layout on the rising I got off him and I kept it. Now on most other stuff this layout will take off on the back when you use it on enough oil. For the rising it wont take off. It rolls strong and is very smooth throughout. I like it for shorter THS, the house shot I normaly bowl on it dont work for because they go 45 feet.

I know what you are saying about this layout, because it has been around for a while. Also when carl says he drilled up a few of these balls dont think he is telling you to have your customers try stuff out. He did what he did with a few of these so he could get a real firm grasp on the balls layout abilitys. This way he could tell us, (even me included seeing how this this is still kinda new to me), how to lay them out if asked and be able to get the reaction the customer is lookign for.
--------------------
Mark "scoot" Trgovac
C-G Pro Shop
Offical "Spokesman"
Youngstown, Ohio

Finishing THS book ave: 200
Finishing PBA Experence ave: 176
Finishing Composit ave: 194

Track HITMAN.

Tag Team Coaching Success Story.

jls · « **Reply #56 on:** October 27, 2007, 11:37:46 AM »

quote:
JLS,

Carl put that layout on the rising I got off him and I kept it. Now on most other stuff this layout will take off on the back when you use it on enough oil. For the rising it wont take off. It rolls strong and is very smooth throughout. I like it for shorter THS, the house shot I normaly bowl on it dont work for because they go 45 feet.

I know what you are saying about this layout, because it has been around for a while. Also when carl says he drilled up a few of these balls dont think he is telling you to have your customers try stuff out. He did what he did with a few of these so he could get a real firm grasp on the balls layout abilitys. This way he could tell us, (even me included seeing how this this is still kinda new to me), how to lay them out if asked and be able to get the reaction the customer is lookign for.
--------------------
Mark "scoot" Trgovac
C-G Pro Shop
Offical "Spokesman"
Youngstown, Ohio

Finishing THS book ave: 200
Finishing PBA Experence ave: 176
Finishing Composit ave: 194

Track HITMAN.

Tag Team Coaching Success Story.

mark, of course we don't think that it what carl is saying. we know a ball tester must try out different layouts.

what we are saying is this.
stop all this code crap, give the pro shops any info on drilling that may help them with their customers!!!!!

one pro shop asked for help and is told " go to a seminar".
another pro shop just posted and said he went to a seminar, NO CODES.

go to the web site and get a code and unlock>>> what???

and then Carl post one of the so called drillings, and its been in Each and every STORM highend ball box for at least 2 years!!!!

are you people at trck enjoying making foolio's out of pro shops?

its not funny mark / carl / rick.
its silly, stupid and irritating.
and its an insult to pro shops.

now once again, carl/rick/mark, we are not bashing you or blaming you for this childish game the new brand manager of track is playing.

and thanks again Carl for your help.

what a shame all this crap is going on.

its a great ball!!!!!!

--------------------
jls, proud watcher of womens golf

Edited on 10/29/2007 9:53 AM

Mark T. Trgovac · « **Reply #57 on:** October 27, 2007, 02:05:45 PM »

Carl didnt post the layout that has been on the storm sheets, I did because that is what carl put on the ball.

Second I dont know who said you get a code for going to the seminar, but when we went the 24th you didnt get a code. You get a code if you buy one of the fast track packages. The price of the package is not going to break the shop. The one package is 3 balls, a Temper, Kinetic, and a Rising for $240. Tell me how this will break a shop to get the code. Now the thing is 95% of the people who bowl can use the layout that is given on the sheet. This layout will do something completly differrent then it would on any other ball. Dont worry about the pin distance. I have the layout on a rising that has a 5" pin. If you have a PAP that is lower then 4 1/2" to the right when you place the pin 1 inch above the midline place it one inch left of the grip line. If you have a PAP that is over 5" place the pin 1" right of the grip line. This was stated at the seminar to a proshop who asked ron. He said that the ideal is to keep the pin 1 inch above the midline but keep the pin around the 4-4 1/2" away from the val area. This will allow for the most overall hook and ball motion. Most ball the leverage are is 3 3/8" but not on this ball.
--------------------
Mark "scoot" Trgovac
C-G Pro Shop
Offical "Spokesman"
Youngstown, Ohio

Finishing THS book ave: 200
Finishing PBA Experence ave: 176
Finishing Composit ave: 194

Track HITMAN.

Tag Team Coaching Success Story.

revTrex · « **Reply #58 on:** October 27, 2007, 03:40:03 PM »

Two things --

1) Why should we have to pay for a package (and, as a result, the ball) to get information related to the ball? Does this make sense?

2) Can someone please explain how leverage on The Rising isn't 3 3/8? How does this work?

Thanks.

stormed1 · « **Reply #59 on:** October 27, 2007, 06:31:35 PM »

Apart from that why should we have to buy "the package" and then have 2 balls sit on the shelf forever?

jhutch769 · « **Reply #60 on:** October 27, 2007, 06:35:22 PM »

Bowled again tonight.. 256-258-256... 770.. not all bad..... Recommended drilling....

By the way, noticed, half way though the first game, the bridge was cracked.. didn't even have 5 games on it yet..

Edited on 10/27/2007 9:35 PM

Author Topic: The Rising Drill Sheet (Read 12002 times)

jhutch769

The Rising Drill Sheet

shelley

Re: The Rising Drill Sheet

Mark T. Trgovac

Re: The Rising Drill Sheet

shelley

Re: The Rising Drill Sheet

jls

Re: The Rising Drill Sheet

Atochabsh

Re: The Rising Drill Sheet

C-G ProShop-Carl

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revTrex

Re: The Rising Drill Sheet

jls

Re: The Rising Drill Sheet

jls

Re: The Rising Drill Sheet

Mark T. Trgovac

Re: The Rising Drill Sheet

jls

Re: The Rising Drill Sheet

Mark T. Trgovac

Re: The Rising Drill Sheet

revTrex

Re: The Rising Drill Sheet

stormed1

Re: The Rising Drill Sheet

jhutch769

Re: The Rising Drill Sheet