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Author Topic: Xception hooking off the lane???  (Read 1940 times)

charlest

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Xception hooking off the lane???
« on: August 30, 2005, 11:14:45 PM »
Used my first Track Asymmetric last night, on medium-light-to-medium oil with some carydown. Well, "used" is relative term. Couldn't keep it on the right side of the headpin without adding speed AND flattening out my release a bit. Even then it was too much trouble to continue that all night long (4 game league; not as young as I used to be.).

It hit great, but what's with this 40 board hook??
I have the pin over the ring finger and the MB just to the left of the thumb (I'm right handed). That's kind of a 4-4 1/2" x 5 1/2-6" x 3 1/2" (height above the midline) for me.
I had to resort to a still large hooking Messenger Ti B/S/P pearl.

Guess it really is for medium oil. Hope my winter leagues have more oil or I'll be selling my undrilled Rule and 5.0 for some symmetric cored Tracks.
--------------------
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BackToBasics

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Re: Xception hooking off the lane???
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2005, 07:31:27 AM »
charlest....it really is a strong ball.  That's why I'm suprised sometimes when I see people recommend it for light oil.   Although there are Track balls that may hook more, for me, there isn't one that covers the amount of boards downlane that the Xception does.

If the amount of oil you see continues to be that light,  you really should consider a Heat if you haven't all ready.
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SteveAustin2808

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Re: Xception hooking off the lane???
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2005, 10:51:44 AM »
achappy,

I have to agree with you buddy, but I have nothing but great things to say about the X-Ception simply because it is the most versatile Track ball I have in the bag. I have been able to use it on the slick stuff to the medium conditions. Just because I shot 300/800 with the X-Ception isn't why it is my favorite ball either. The X-Ception is just that, one of the most versatile pieces in Track history, I would even have to go one up and say it is more versatile than my Phenom Unleashed! If I could find two or three more to have stored away to drill later, don't think for one minute that I would not!

charlest,

buddy, as I was saying above, while it is a versatile piece, if thrown on certain conditions you would think this is a particle hook monster! Just keep searching and using it on different conditions and let us know what you think of it. I'm sure you are going to find the niche and will know what condition and lanes to use this wonderful piece from Track on!

--Michael--
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clintdaley

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Re: Xception hooking off the lane???
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2005, 11:39:20 AM »
From the asymmetric line, it is the weakest ball (longest), but compared to all of Track's arsenal, it is a stronger ball. I have had success on lighter oil, but I have a higher speed, track high, have low axis tilt, and have both drilled with the mass bias left of the thumb...

Clint
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FBM357

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Re: Xception hooking off the lane???
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2005, 11:59:49 AM »
quote:
From the asymmetric line, it is the weakest ball (longest), but compared to all of Track's arsenal, it is a stronger ball. I have had success on lighter oil, but I have a higher speed, track high, have low axis tilt, and have both drilled with the mass bias left of the thumb...

Clint
--------------------
Clint Daley-Owner
Lets Go Bowling Daley
Inside Hunt Club Lanes
Salem, Ohio 44460
TRACK ADVISORY PRO SHOP STAFF

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Wouldn't mass bias left of thumb (if you're a righty) further weaken the ball?  If the ball is made to 'go long' in what case would you place a "weak" layout on it?  If lanes are toast, another ball would suffice, no?
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clintdaley

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Re: Xception hooking off the lane???
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2005, 01:09:34 PM »
FMB...

You are correct, mass bias left of thumb does weaken the mass bias...however, I have the most success in this position, and due to my forward roll and low amount of tilt, I need backend. By putting the mass bias left of thumb, it makes the ball backend more....check it out on buddiesproshop.com asymmetrical layouts. Additionally, the drill I described is my favorite drill, and I drill at least 1 if not 2 of every single ball that comes out like that, changing the surface on the 2nd one just to see how it reacts to the changing of the surface.

I am one who also believes if you find a reaction/drill you like, drill other balls identical with different covers/finishes to complete an arsenal. By changing covers/cores...you know if you put the same drill on both balls, it gives you a logical step to step....

While I do 100% believe in this for me, I talk to my customers and see how they feel. Some agree, some do not. Those that do not, we drill how they feel and I feel will best fit in for them.

Clint
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Clint Daley-Owner
Lets Go Bowling Daley
Inside Hunt Club Lanes
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SteveAustin2808

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Re: Xception hooking off the lane???
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2005, 02:22:57 PM »
Clint,

I had a similar experience with that. It just so happened to be my X-Ception! You see, the first time it was drilled, this was before the guy that always drills my balls was hired back into the pro shop business. I had bought the X-Ception and was asked how I wanted the ball drilled. I have always had success with 3 3/8" Pin Stacked Leverage and told him that is what I wanted. He did just this, but the only negative thing about it is that the Mass Bias was at 7 o'clock just to the left of the thumb! The ball never hooked for me at all and I was very disappointed that I had spent a buttload of money for a ball not to hook. Finally, the guy that used to always drilled my stuff opened the owner's 7th pro shop location and I had him plug and redrill it with a stacked leverage layout same as before except kick the Mass Bias to 5 o'clock, right of the thumb. 300/800 a few months after plugging and redrilling and it has become my most versatile ball as I have spoke about before! So to those who think the Mass Bias doesn't have a direct effect, consider your style and talk to your pro shop guru and get the right drilling to prevent stuff like this from happening!

--Michael--
--------------------
What Are You Waiting For? Get on the FASTTrack to success!!

Track -- Building success stories, one bowler at a time!

Track Amateur Staff Wanna-Be!
Michael Price - Office Manager
McCorvey's Bowling World Staff - Phone: (256) 539-1560
Hammer Amateur Staff
michaelp@mccorveysproshop.com

clintdaley

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Re: Xception hooking off the lane???
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2005, 02:48:34 PM »
You are exactly correct my friend! Anyone (ok...most anyone) can drill symmetrical stuff all day.....asymmetrical, you need someone who is experienced!

Clint
--------------------
Clint Daley-Owner
Lets Go Bowling Daley
Inside Hunt Club Lanes
Salem, Ohio 44460
TRACK ADVISORY PRO SHOP STAFF

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charlest

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Re: Xception hooking off the lane???
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2005, 03:44:28 PM »
quote:
charlest....it really is a strong ball.  That's why I'm suprised sometimes when I see people recommend it for light oil.   Although there are Track balls that may hook more, for me, there isn't one that covers the amount of boards downlane that the Xception does.

If the amount of oil you see continues to be that light,  you really should consider a Heat if you haven't all ready.
--------------------
Anthony Chapman


It was the last night of a Summer league and they used mostly a medium-light oil pattern. I had already figured it wouldn't last much past the 1st or 2nd game of 4; but I did need to try it. I thought the ocassional carrydown would help deter it some. Still I wasn't expecting the really large hook. Often the 99% case, when reviews tell you how much more a ball hooks, it winds up being a couple more boards, not 8-10 more.

In any case, my winter league center has a new oil machine and all practice sessions there indicate a lot more oil. I mean I've had to use my normal heavy oil ball, a Legend New Standard, where, previously, only a strong pearl was needed for their heaviest oil.

Also since the Xception is barely polished, more like a "Rough Buff" (ha! ), it still needs quite a bit oil in the heads, if not also the midlane. I won;t be polishing this ball any time shortly.

With the respect to the Heat, I have a NIB CrunchTime I just got and that Solutions PP EX you recommended so strongly still on order. I think they may both fit around and over the area where a Heat would go. As nice as your reports and others were about the Heat were, I never quite got the "yen" for the Heat, though it still tempts me now and then.

--------------------
Bowling: Just like hand grenades and horse shoes, you only have to get close.
Life: Deal with what is.


Edited on 8/31/2005 3:44 PM
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

charlest

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Re: Xception hooking off the lane???
« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2005, 03:49:12 PM »
quote:

Wouldn't mass bias left of thumb (if you're a righty) further weaken the ball?  If the ball is made to 'go long' in what case would you place a "weak" layout on it?  If lanes are toast, another ball would suffice, no?
--------------------
"The sages to the contrary - ONE MAN'S POISON IS USUALLY ANOTHER MAN'S POISON, TOO!!!"


Vernon,

Remember that bit about the position of the MB to the left or right of the thumb is just a convenient way of referring to it. It is NOT a cut and dried rule, because the way in which the position of the MB affects the ball reactions is based ENTIRELY on the distance of the MB from the PAP. In fact, it is NOT a rule, not a reference point. For me and others with inverted tracks (PAP below than the midline, rather than above it), the MB just on the other side of the thumb hole is still a strong reaction additive to that of the pin's posiiton, which still "Rule"s, so to speak.

--------------------
Bowling: Just like hand grenades and horse shoes, you only have to get close.
Life: Deal with what is.
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

FBM357

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Re: Xception hooking off the lane???
« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2005, 04:38:12 PM »
Charlest,

I've a RULE and it was 'mistakenly' drilled with the MB left of thumb.  I've never thrown a ball with this type of layout, but was surprised of the reaction.  It was 'weak' to say the least.  Ball had a 'soft' arc to it.  Giving you a better analogy, it appeared as though it was 'counter-steering' instead of 'driving' to the pocket.  I explained the reaction (after tenpinspro explained the effects of MB placement) to the driller who plugged and placed the MB right of thumb (i.e. about 5:00-5:30).  What a difference in reaction!!!!!  Ball was much stronger.  Pin is below ring in both cases.

I, like you have an inverted PAP (4 3/4 x 3/4 down).   I've other balls where the MB is located below thumb (which to me seems mild and not overly aggressive), but nothing close to the MB right of thumb in regards to reaction.

V

EDIT:  High Polish on the Rule

Edited on 8/31/2005 4:44 PM

kgee15

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Re: Xception hooking off the lane???
« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2005, 05:28:35 PM »
I had the same issue with my Rule and GP2 (mb left of thumb).  I had wondered for a long time why my Rule and GP2 weren't reacting much.  I brought the balls to Rick (tenpinspro) and he only had to look at them for a split second before knowing what was wrong.  Needless to say, my Rule's reaction has greatly improved and I'm anxious to try out my GP2 soon!  Thanks Rick!

charlest

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Re: Xception hooking off the lane???
« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2005, 08:10:33 PM »
FBM357 & kgee15,

I hear what you're saying, but realize that the MB position with respect to the PAP is not the only factor involved here. One other significant pair of factors is both the ball speed and, by implication, the ratio of revs to ball speed. I suspect that ratio is more important than the actual ball speed. I believe the factor at least partially responsible for the lack of ball reaction on both your parts, is related to that ratio being lower than required for that MB position.

FBM357 (Vernon),

I know your ball speed is higher than mine, while your rev rate may be equal to mine. I may get more of a ball reaction with the MB to the left of the thumb hole SOLELY because my ball speed is slower and my ball has a better/higher chance to react and have more of a backend than your has.

The same may be true of yours, kgee15.

if your revs were higher or your ball speed were lower, your ball would have a better chance to react as you expected and would have preferred.

This is my belief, without the benefit of measurements.

For future reference, I'd suggest you keep the "apparent" influence of these factors in mind, along with all the other factors involved: specific ball, its coverstock and its surface finish. core design factors, pin placement, etc. The relationship of all these factors becomes the bottom line, as far as ball reaction is concerned.

This is a learning experience for us all. All I can suggest is to keep in mind what you have learned. It can save future mistakes; all a driller can do, during all this, is make his best guesses, as we rarely have all the vital information on hand.

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Bowling: Just like hand grenades and horse shoes, you only have to get close.
Life: Deal with what is.
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

Sir Bowl-A-Lot

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Re: Xception hooking off the lane???
« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2005, 08:15:28 PM »
Interesting.  My teammate has one drilled stacked lev. and it doesn't hook a board.  Dart City man!  I think it has to do with the amount of oil they slap down though and not the ball.
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charlest

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Re: Xception hooking off the lane???
« Reply #14 on: September 01, 2005, 06:20:54 PM »
quote:
Interesting.  My teammate has one drilled stacked lev. and it doesn't hook a board.  Dart City man!  I think it has to do with the amount of oil they slap down though and not the ball.
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*Don't swing it if you can't bring it.*
"Hey Guero..." "Yeah, bro?"
BallReviews.com member since 3/31/2003 (since 2001 under the now late user name buzzsaw16...back when I used nothing but Lane#1)


Not sure what stacked leverage means when applied to an asymmetric core?

It could have been too much oil for that coverstock and his amount of revs + ball speed.

--------------------
Bowling: Just like hand grenades and horse shoes, you only have to get close.
Life: Deal with what is.
"None are so blind as those who will not see."