Author Topic: Future VBP Test Staff Member (Read 4483 times)

Shoutout33 · « **on:** March 20, 2012, 11:49:51 AM »

What's up people! I really need some help, coming up with a four ball arsenal (possibly five...), as I will be investing in a Platinum level membership soon. I'm getting back into the sport and I'm also co-starting a PBA experience league at our house here in Marlo Heights, MD. Here's linky: PBA Experience League.

Spoke with Jason yesterday, and the man is too awesome! He spent a good 30 minutes plus with me on the phone, explaining their products to me. Unfortuneately, I'm still a little lost. I definitely know that I want the Ogre Urethane for drier conditions and to use as my spare ball. The Ogre SS Pearl (or Gladiator LE if they have it...) for medium lighter to light oil conditions, and the Mixed Breed Pearl for my medium conditions.

Here's where I'm conflicted. I really really like the looks of the Spartan and Mixed Breed Solid. The kicker is, which one do I get, if not both of them. I understand that the Spartan is a very strong rolling and arcing ball, which to me would be great as a benchmark ball. I personally can't stand skid-flip type balls because I can't read them well. Yes, I do know that the SS Pearl is a skid-snap ball, that's why I would like the LE if they have some left. I heard that the LE isn't so violent on the backend.

Now with the Mixed Breed, I understand you can open up the lane, even in heavy oil with this ball from the jump. It goes long and has a controllable hard roll on the back end. If this is incorrect, please let me know. Jason said that the balls are both designed for heavier oil patterns, but have different shapes and reactions. I guess what I'm trying to say is, I don't want anything to overlap in my arsenal.

I do understand the drilling and cover preperation plays a big part in this; however, but I've never understood, why you'd buy a ball designed for particlar condition in order to mess with the cover to use it in completly different condition. Especially when a ball manufacturer has balls for various conditions. Go figure.

Sorry for getting off subject there. So, for those of you that have both the Mixed Breed and the Spartan, what are your opinions and what do you use them for? I'm pretty much a tweener all the around with revs, axis tilt, and I'm probably still in the 16-18 mph range as far as speed goes. More things will be finalized when my pro drills my stuff, bucause he remembers how I threw the ball and I'll have Jason speak to him when my equipment comes.

Thanks for taking the time to read my thread, and thanks in advance for your replies and opinions.

Daris 2012

When you've moved up, moved back, adjusted left and right, cupped, flattened out, have thrown everyting in your arsenal, and the pins still don't cooperate, just say, "Aw to HELL with it!", and throw the ball!

scotts33 · « **Reply #1 on:** March 20, 2012, 12:33:44 PM »

Post your stats. would be a large help.

Some of their balls like the Ogre line (Ogre Pearl I would definitely think about before the LE or SS Ogre) would be better on flatter tougher conditions than the skid snap type of equipment.

Spartan might be good on flatter medium-heavy conditions smooth arc. On the Spartan and Mixed Breeds which are z-spinners make sure you have your pro shop guy get in touch with VBP if he doesn't understand layout and drilling of z-spinners. Having a DeTerminator is a huge plus.

Find a B/G Centaur a ball that will work more than most on tough conditions. The hook in the box balls on broken down flatter patterns just won't work IMO. You'll have to find some VBP older stuff to work on those types of conditions. B/G and Ogre Pearl would be two I'd make sure I'd have. The other larger total hook would be a best guess as to core/cover and your lane condition match up. Symmetrical's are going to work better than asymmetrical's on flatter patters for the most part. Find an FMG symmetrical smooth arc medium-heavy ball.

Good luck on your choices and bowling with VBP.

Scott

ch_flash · « **Reply #2 on:** March 20, 2012, 02:07:06 PM »

How much oil do you see? Do you use an It thumb insert, and/or grips?

I would recommend getting the Ogre urethane. (Dry lane/spare ball.)

You would be OK with the Ogre SS or Pearl too. (Med/dry lanes. Get down lane with a strong move)

A Gladiator Solid(med) or a Spartan(heavy.) Arc type reaction with the Spartan being stronger and earlier. My Spartan works well for me on Shark pattern.

If you see enough oil, I'd go with a Mixed Breed Solid(heavy oil) and Pearl(med to heavy). Would be a good 1-2 combo.

If you like a hybrid cover stock, try the New Breed Crossover as your Med ball. I can use mine on pretty much all conditions except heavy oil. New Breeds seem to work better for higher rev players.

Make sure your driller knows where the PSA is before you drill them.

I'd go with what Jason says as he has enough info on all of these. Doesn't matter if you use dual angle or x by x make sure the psa is in the right position for your style of bowling.

Also, Scott has a wealth of knowledge when it comes to VBP balls.

All this is IMO. What works for me, may not work for you.

I like, in this order, the NB Crossover(med/dry), Frankie May Gryphon(med/hvy), Violet Gargoyle(med/hvy), B/G Centuar(med/dry), MB Solid, Spartan(hvy), NB Particle Pearl(med/hvy.)

If you didn't like that strike, just watch this one!

http://visionarybowling.com/

JamminJD · « **Reply #3 on:** March 20, 2012, 02:09:39 PM »

Every thing scott33 said is good advice. I have the Mixed Breed Pearl and Solid. Both are GREAT balls but like scott33 said they are Z spins and you need to talk to Jason with your specs and get them drilled right (If your pro shop does not have a Determinator).

The Pearl for me out of box (specs 15-16mph at the pins and 400 + revs and 60+ axis rotation) is a beast! I have thrown it on 39 ft and 41 ft and the ball likes oil!

The Solid is a sharp looking ball in my opinion and is a great oil ball, have used it on 43 ft flat oil with no problem.

My personal favorite line is the OGRE line I love all those balls you can't go wrong with those, especially the price point in my opinion "best bang for your buck arsenal in bowling".

Good luck with what ever you decide and don't hesitate to ask! Links to some of my VBP balls, missing is the OGRE Urethane and Solid.

http://s1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/jamminjd/

Shoutout33 · « **Reply #4 on:** March 20, 2012, 03:09:02 PM »

scotts33 wrote on 3/20/2012 10:33 AM:
Post your stats. would be a large help.

Some of their balls like the Ogre line (Ogre Pearl I would definitely think about before the LE or SS Ogre) would be better on flatter tougher conditions than the skid snap type of equipment.

Spartan might be good on flatter medium-heavy conditions smooth arc. On the Spartan and Mixed Breeds which are z-spinners make sure you have your pro shop guy get in touch with VBP if he doesn't understand layout and drilling of z-spinners. Having a DeTerminator is a huge plus.

Find a B/G Centaur a ball that will work more than most on tough conditions. The hook in the box balls on broken down flatter patterns just won't work IMO. You'll have to find some VBP older stuff to work on those types of conditions. B/G and Ogre Pearl would be two I'd make sure I'd have. The other larger total hook would be a best guess as to core/cover and your lane condition match up. Symmetrical's are going to work better than asymmetrical's on flatter patters for the most part. Find an FMG symmetrical smooth arc medium-heavy ball.

Good luck on your choices and bowling with VBP.

Scott

Thanks for the reply Scott! What stats are you referring too? I've been out of bowling for 4+ years now, so I don't have any stats as of yet. What does the term "Z-Spinner's" (or a DeTerminator for that matter...) mean in referance to VBP's stuff. (In layman's term's if you don't mind.

) I plan on throwing 15 lb. equipment, so getting older VBP stuff is gonna be difficult to get directly through Jason and Visionary. That's why I'm asking about their current line up. What's the difference between symmetrical and asymmetrical equipment and can you give a link that explains it clearly? Lastly, what is the FMG? Is it a Visionary ball? Thanks again.

When you've moved up, moved back, adjusted left and right, cupped, flattened out, have thrown everyting in your arsenal, and the pins still don't cooperate, just say, "Aw to HELL with it!", and throw the ball!

Shoutout33 · « **Reply #5 on:** March 20, 2012, 03:55:12 PM »

ch_flash wrote on 3/20/2012 12:07 PM:
How much oil do you see? Do you use an It thumb insert, and/or grips?

I would recommend getting the Ogre urethane. (Dry lane/spare ball.)

You would be OK with the Ogre SS or Pearl too. (Med/dry lanes. Get down lane with a strong move)

A Gladiator Solid(med) or a Spartan(heavy.) Arc type reaction with the Spartan being stronger and earlier. My Spartan works well for me on Shark pattern.

If you see enough oil, I'd go with a Mixed Breed Solid(heavy oil) and Pearl(med to heavy). Would be a good 1-2 combo.

If you like a hybrid cover stock, try the New Breed Crossover as your Med ball. I can use mine on pretty much all conditions except heavy oil. New Breeds seem to work better for higher rev players.

Make sure your driller knows where the PSA is before you drill them.

I'd go with what Jason says as he has enough info on all of these. Doesn't matter if you use dual angle or x by x make sure the psa is in the right position for your style of bowling.

Also, Scott has a wealth of knowledge when it comes to VBP balls.

All this is IMO. What works for me, may not work for you.

I like, in this order, the NB Crossover(med/dry), Frankie May Gryphon(med/hvy), Violet Gargoyle(med/hvy), B/G Centuar(med/dry), MB Solid, Spartan(hvy), NB Particle Pearl(med/hvy.)

If you didn't like that strike, just watch this one!

http://visionarybowling.com/

Thanks for the reply ch_flash! As far as how much oil I'll be playing on, please refer back to my original thread and click on the link. It's a flyer I made for our league and it lists the oil patterns we will be playing on.

When you've moved up, moved back, adjusted left and right, cupped, flattened out, have thrown everyting in your arsenal, and the pins still don't cooperate, just say, "Aw to HELL with it!", and throw the ball!

scotts33 · « **Reply #6 on:** March 20, 2012, 03:57:38 PM »

Shoutout33,

Here is a link to get all of your measurements and a good pro shop operator should be able to get all of these and estimate to a very close degree all of them. BC.net wiki Bowler's Measurements

PSO definitely needs to know PAP, can measure track diameter to get tilt, also needs to know ball speed, revs, axis rotation so you can get equipment laid out correctly for you plus conditions you will bowl on and surface tweaks.

IMO if using this equipment the majority of the time on PBA type conditions or flatter bended conditions you need more symmetrical equipment than asymmetrical. If bowling on house conditions a poor release with asymmetrical will be blended out and not magnified. Not so on tougher conditions poor releases will be very evident. Hence, I stay away from assymetricals for this very reason. I suggested the FMG (Frankie May Gryphon) for this reason....a symmetrical with a lower Rg and a smooth arc for medium to heavy. The other ball you need is an Ogre Pearl also great on tougher conditions....you don't want the over reaction on blended patterns. Both of these balls are rated very highly by many as a great sport condition pieces. If you are bowling house conditions the newer stuff works fine if you have enough volume and your stats. match up with condition, cover/core. For many house bowlers not enough volume is put down to use these and they also amplify the wet/dry house shot.

Scott

Matt C · « **Reply #7 on:** March 20, 2012, 11:45:47 PM »

I agree with Scott, I tend to stick with symetrical pieces on the tougher patterns the ogre pearl and even the solid are excelent choices.

The MB line is very versatile but I would only suggest those if your dealing with heavier and longer patterns. That said I took my MB solid sanded it to 3000 and polished the snot outta it. Now when the lanes get fried I pull that out and it is beautiful.

Shoutout33 · « **Reply #8 on:** March 21, 2012, 02:34:13 AM »

Matt C wrote on 3/20/2012 9:45 PM:
I agree with Scott, I tend to stick with symetrical pieces on the tougher patterns the ogre pearl and even the solid are excelent choices.

The MB line is very versatile but I would only suggest those if your dealing with heavier and longer patterns. That said I took my MB solid sanded it to 3000 and polished the snot outta it. Now when the lanes get fried I pull that out and it is beautiful.

Hey Matt, thanks for the reply! As far as the ok patterns are concerned and if I'll see enough volume, please refer back to the original thread and look at the flyer. I'll be bowling on all types of oil patterns, so I'll need an arsenal that'll let me do that. I finally made up my mind to get the follwoing:

MB Solid or Spartan (Still can't make up my mind.)

MB Pearl

Ogre SS Solid

Ogre Urethane

Possibility: NB Crossover

When you've moved up, moved back, adjusted left and right, cupped, flattened out, have thrown everyting in your arsenal, and the pins still don't cooperate, just say, "Aw to HELL with it!", and throw the ball!

scotts33 · « **Reply #9 on:** March 21, 2012, 02:47:24 AM »

No Patterns Shown on Link?

MB Solid or Spartan (Still can't make up my mind.) z-spinner find PSA first and surface tweak only need for medium-heavy more heavy.

MB Pearl -- z-spinner find PSA. Better bet Ogre Pearl symmetric easier read medium won't break off back end

Ogre SS Solid -- Too skid snap for flat patterns. You could lay out for inside control layout. SS Ogre is a pearl.

Ogre Urethane -- Spare ball very very dry.

Possibility: NB Crossover

Scott

Matt C · « **Reply #10 on:** March 21, 2012, 11:37:26 AM »

It looks like you may not know what a Z spin ball is so ill try to explain.....

The MB balls have a pin.... and a marked mass bias( the V mark). but its not the true mass bias. the true mass bias is 6 3/4 both left and right of the V

Above is the left Z spin axis..

Take a Prosect (or a quarter scale if your driller does not have a prosect ) and put the top of the center ridge on the pin, put the bottom of the center ridge on the V. where the prosect ends on BOTH sides are your Z axis's. Assuming your a right hander its just a matter of how far you swing the V mark right. The farther you swing it the stronger the ball will be.

This is my pearl... notice how far the V mark is to the right... The Z axis from the first picture is in my thumb hole. This layout is a very very high flaring strong layout.. You might not have seen the video I did with the pearl and the solid. I will link them as they show 2 different styles and 2 different layout.

Pearl http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRW5onpRTPY

Solid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qdg3r8MEYjU

The layout on My solid is medium weak for my Rev rate so I put a large weight hole to give it a little more pop. The weight hole on the Pearl was just to keep the statics in check.

Edited by Matt C on 3/21/2012 at 9:51 AM

Edited by Matt C on 3/21/2012 at 9:52 AM

Shoutout33 · « **Reply #11 on:** March 21, 2012, 06:09:56 PM »

scotts33 wrote on 3/21/2012 0:47 AM:
No Patterns Shown on Link?

MB Solid or Spartan (Still can't make up my mind.) z-spinner find PSA first and surface tweak only need for medium-heavy more heavy.

MB Pearl -- z-spinner find PSA. Better bet Ogre Pearl symmetric easier read medium won't break off back end

Ogre SS Solid -- Too skid snap for flat patterns. You could lay out for inside control layout. SS Ogre is a pearl.

Ogre Urethane -- Spare ball very very dry.

Possibility: NB Crossover

Scott

Hey Scott I really appreciate your patience helping me out with this arsenal. It is greatly appreciated!

Concerning the term "break off on the backend", what do mean by that? Does the MB Pearl skid/snap too much, burn out, what?

For the Ogre SS Pearl, is there something else you recommend or go with the SS and use the tammer drilling?

As far as the Spartan and MB Solid go, either is good for heavier oil or do I have to tweak them for heavier oil? I really don't understand what you are saying.

Lastly, could you give me your opinions on the Crossover and if I need it based on the arsenal I'm building? Also, the flyer has the patterns we will use in the league. They are to the right in bold, white highlighted letters:

-Don Carter

-Dick Weber

-Earl Anthony

-Carmen Salvino

-Detroit Open

-Mexico City

For position rounds were using the four major patterns:

-US Open

-USBC Masters

-PBA World Championships

-PBA Tournament of Champions

When you've moved up, moved back, adjusted left and right, cupped, flattened out, have thrown everyting in your arsenal, and the pins still don't cooperate, just say, "Aw to HELL with it!", and throw the ball!

Shoutout33 · « **Reply #12 on:** March 21, 2012, 06:23:25 PM »

Matt C wrote on 3/21/2012 9:37 AM:
It looks like you may not know what a Z spin ball is so ill try to explain.....

The MB balls have a pin.... and a marked mass bias( the V mark). but its not the true mass bias. the true mass bias is 6 3/4 both left and right of the V

Above is the left Z spin axis..

Take a Prosect (or a quarter scale if your driller does not have a prosect ) and put the top of the center ridge on the pin, put the bottom of the center ridge on the V. where the prosect ends on BOTH sides are your Z axis's.   Assuming your a right hander its just a matter of how far you swing the V mark right. The farther you swing it the stronger the ball will be.

This is my pearl... notice how far the V mark is to the right... The Z axis from the first picture is in my thumb hole. This layout is a very very high flaring strong layout.. You might not have seen the video I did with the pearl and the solid. I will link them as they show 2 different styles and 2 different layout.

Pearl   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRW5onpRTPY

Solid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qdg3r8MEYjU

The layout on My solid is medium weak for my Rev rate so I put a large weight hole to give it a little more pop. The weight hole on the Pearl was just to keep the statics in check.

Edited by Matt C on 3/21/2012 at 9:51 AM

Edited by Matt C on 3/21/2012 at 9:52 AM

Hey Matt, I did see those videos, but didn't know what I was looking at though. LOL! Now I understand it a little better now. Don't be suprised if you see a few PM's with questions concerning this topic, especially for Visionary's stuff.

Could you give me your two cents based on what I plan to get and add to what Scott is recommending? I especially need help trying to figure out wether or not to get the NB Solid or Spartan. I know they are both for oil and give you different looks, but after seeing how controllable your NB Solid was, I really wonding what the difference is now.

When you've moved up, moved back, adjusted left and right, cupped, flattened out, have thrown everyting in your arsenal, and the pins still don't cooperate, just say, "Aw to HELL with it!", and throw the ball!

Shoutout33 · « **Reply #13 on:** April 07, 2012, 12:01:52 PM »

Hey people!

Wanted to let you guys know, that my stuff arrived (minus my Crossover

) and needless to say, I am excited to be bowling with Visionary!!! Here's what I decided to get:

-Mixed Breed Solid

-Mixed Breed Pearl

-New Breed Crossover

-New Breed Pearl (Not as ugly as I thought it was gonna' be. I like this ball.)

-Ogre Urethane

I've turned a few heads here and there, but what trips me out is that most folks are asking about the Ogre Urethane the most. LOL! Go figure. Like I said, I'm still waiting on my Crossover, but once it comes in, we'll starting punching everything up. I'll keep you guys in the loop as we go and will take pictures when I can as well.

When you've moved up, moved back, adjusted left and right, cupped, flattened out, have thrown everyting in your arsenal, and the pins still don't cooperate, just say, "Aw to HELL with it!", and throw the ball!

Author Topic: Future VBP Test Staff Member (Read 4483 times)

Shoutout33

Future VBP Test Staff Member

scotts33

Re: Future VBP Test Staff Member

ch_flash

Re: Future VBP Test Staff Member

JamminJD

Re: Future VBP Test Staff Member

Shoutout33

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Shoutout33

Re: Future VBP Test Staff Member

scotts33

Re: Future VBP Test Staff Member

Matt C

Re: Future VBP Test Staff Member

Shoutout33

Re: Future VBP Test Staff Member

scotts33

Re: Future VBP Test Staff Member

Matt C

Re: Future VBP Test Staff Member

Shoutout33

Re: Future VBP Test Staff Member

Shoutout33

Re: Future VBP Test Staff Member

Shoutout33

Re: Future VBP Test Staff Member