Author Topic: Non sanctioned leagues (Read 10356 times)

another300 · « **on:** January 31, 2008, 03:27:54 AM »

Who all bowls or has bowled in non sanctioned leagues? How were the lane conditions from week to week?

The reason I ask is because if "WE" all banned together and chose not to play in sanctioned leagues, this would leave the lane conditions up the the discretion of the house. Do you think things would get better? Stay the same or get worse if we took USBC out of the equation?

dechrist · « **Reply #1 on:** January 31, 2008, 11:33:38 AM »

How would league rules be set up? I think things would be worse for the more serious bowlers. I've run into problems playing in unsanctioned leagues with folks that drank too much. One week, they spilled beer all over the pit.

That does raise a question: How do you establish averages for tournaments?
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Dale

My 2007-2008 arsenal is here.

Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity.
-- General George S. Patton

shelley · « **Reply #2 on:** January 31, 2008, 12:03:55 PM »

That would leave the lane conditions up to the house? In what way? The USBC doesn't regulate lane conditions now, so what good would it do to boycott sanctioned leagues? There's no rule that says the house has to provide fresh lane conditions. There's no rule that says the house has to provide any particular shot at all, besides the 3u minimum rule (which counts for squat). The house will give you whatever they feel like giving you, they don't the USBC to tell them that.

If the house wants to keep the league happy, they will provide a shot that the league is happy with. Sanctioning doesn't make one bit of difference.

The USBC does much more than provide crappy awards and jerk the youth bowlers around. Wait until your secretary makes off with the league funds the week before payouts, then complain about the prize fund insurance they provide. Wait until someone walks to the pin deck and kicks the pins down, then claims a strike because there is no formal rule book and the league doesn't have a rule addressing fouls in their by-laws. You think rule books write themselves? You think lanes level themselves?

SH

Blackphantom1985 · « **Reply #3 on:** January 31, 2008, 12:22:00 PM »

I bowl in usbc san and non san and the lanes conditions are the same only diference is you dont get awards and you dont have to pay the fees

another300 · « **Reply #4 on:** January 31, 2008, 12:22:54 PM »

quote:
That would leave the lane conditions up to the house? In what way? The USBC doesn't regulate lane conditions now, so what good would it do to boycott sanctioned leagues? There's no rule that says the house has to provide fresh lane conditions. There's no rule that says the house has to provide any particular shot at all, besides the 3u minimum rule (which counts for squat). The house will give you whatever they feel like giving you, they don't the USBC to tell them that.

If the house wants to keep the league happy, they will provide a shot that the league is happy with. Sanctioning doesn't make one bit of difference.

The USBC does much more than provide crappy awards and jerk the youth bowlers around. Wait until your secretary makes off with the league funds the week before payouts, then complain about the prize fund insurance they provide. Wait until someone walks to the pin deck and kicks the pins down, then claims a strike because there is no formal rule book and the league doesn't have a rule addressing fouls in their by-laws. You think rule books write themselves? You think lanes level themselves?

I'm not attempting to boycott USBC. I just hear a lot of complaining about USBC and crappy awards and all other bad things USBC does or doesn't do. I just wanted to see what benefits people thought they would see, other than saving their sanction fee, if they bowled non-sanctioned leagues. You did bring up good questions? Has anyone ran up and kicked down a pin and claimed a strike because their league wasn't sanctioned and didn't have that rule? Has anyone in a non sanctioned league had their secretary run off with their prize fund monies? What rules do Non-sanctioned leagues follow?

lilmike2782 · « **Reply #5 on:** January 31, 2008, 12:55:33 PM »

now... before i give my OPINION on this and the "boycotting USBC" comments, i just want to say one thing. Don't crucify me for it. its just my opinion. i see alot of people making comments, statements, or stating their opinion, and are just beatin' down verbally by other people for no reason. so with that said, here we go.

i have bowled in bowl style leagues (non-sanctioned in summer, just to keep the consistency going) and haven't noticed that big of a difference. what i see more in the non-sanc league than i do in the sanc leagues is the competitiveness. and this may just be in my area, but the non-sanc leagues are like "practice leagues", "bragging right leagues", "fun leagues" or just "entry-level or low average" leagues.

but why get back at the USBC by "boycotting" sanc leagues? do you really care that much about a plaque or ring or patch? i don't. but thats just me. i bowl for me and my team. i love bowling and i am competitive with it, but also have lots of fun. never had a 300-299-298, 800 series never picked up a 7-10 split, and wouldn't care if they discontined "prizes" all together when i do accomplish some of those goals. everyone keeps complaining about the quality of the prizes, but were some of the accomplishments deserving of the prize. did you throw a 300 with a brooklyn?? or in a house you average 230 in but not the house you average 200 in?? is a THS too easy to get 300's and should only be credited in a sport league or pba league??

all i am saying is have fun and bowl.... nothing wrong with 300's, or 11-in-a-row, or 7-10 pickups... keep up the good work. but don't do it for the "prize" do it for the recognition of your fellow bowlers, friends, and first off, yourself and team. keep supporting each other.

azguy · « **Reply #6 on:** January 31, 2008, 01:01:48 PM »

One of the Leagues I'm in, for next year, is considering going non-sanctioned. We have already started our 'rule book' and it won't be much if any different from the USBC Rules. The reason we are considering this move is the local assn wants to raise the fees from $2-5 due to mismanagement of funds. (IMO). They say the next years budget, at current rates, is already over $3,000 in the red and to make up this, they will be raising fees.

My answer to that would be, cut back in whatever it is you are overspending. I see no reason to send a delegate to National Convention, expenses paid. I see nothing from this local assn so my question was, where's the money going to be spent ? The answer was, come to the meeting and if we have time we'll discuss it.....discuss it ? WTH ?

I know most leagues here will still be sanctioned so most bowlers will have the card for whatever they want to use it for, but those who don't go to tournaments and don't want to, what's the point ? That's what I hear so that's why this one league is considering the move for next year.
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az guy aka: R & L Bowlers Pro
rlbowlerspro@cox.net
www.rlbowlerspro.com

justdale · « **Reply #7 on:** January 31, 2008, 01:05:25 PM »

You don't need USBC to tell you what your league can say in your rules, you use their rules in case your league rules don't cover a specific area. So instead of having a book to look at for anything not covered in your league rules, you could just write out all rules that may or may not come up.

As far as a house not conditioning lanes a certain way, you sit down with the propreitor, and tell him/her what you would like, and make an arrangement.

--------------------
Dale Williams
Columbia 300 Utah Amateur Staff

Madiballz23 · « **Reply #8 on:** January 31, 2008, 02:14:07 PM »

Yes the fees have risen in recent years, and the awards have backed off. Personally, I think you should get 1 ring for a 298, 299, and a 300 in your career. Why do you need 5 rings because you shot 5 300s over 8 years? Most people don't wear them anyways. That would save a LOT of money for other things that USBC SHOULD be doing to help better the sport.

I'm not sure what you all are paying, but my sanctioning is $20 a year. and an extra 7 or 9 if I want to be a sport member. Since when is that a lot of money? How many bowling balls do some of you buy a year that cost 150+? But $20 for our sanctioning body is breaking you?

As for most of the non-sanctioned leagues I know, they usually end up adopting the USBC rule book for 99% of the rules anyways. The shot the houses put out has been and always will be dictated by the bowlers. Bowling Alleys still need to make money, and unhappy customers go places that make them happy.
--------------------
I have BIG BLACK BALLS!!!!

And they are both made by Hammer!

lilmike2782 · « **Reply #9 on:** January 31, 2008, 02:28:22 PM »

quote:
Yes the fees have risen in recent years, and the awards have backed off. Personally, I think you should get 1 ring for a 298, 299, and a 300 in your career. Why do you need 5 rings because you shot 5 300s over 8 years? Most people don't wear them anyways. That would save a LOT of money for other things that USBC SHOULD be doing to help better the sport.

I'm not sure what you all are paying, but my sanctioning is $20 a year. and an extra 7 or 9 if I want to be a sport member. Since when is that a lot of money? How many bowling balls do some of you buy a year that cost 150+? But $20 for our sanctioning body is breaking you?

As for most of the non-sanctioned leagues I know, they usually end up adopting the USBC rule book for 99% of the rules anyways. The shot the houses put out has been and always will be dictated by the bowlers. Bowling Alleys still need to make money, and unhappy customers go places that make them happy.
--------------------
I have BIG BLACK BALLS!!!!

And they are both made by Hammer!

i agree with the one ring proposal too. like i said before, i don't really care at all about the "reward" given by the USBC at all, but if they want to do that, do one ring, in your career and maybe and option to send your original ring to them and they will add another diamond on the rim-face of the ring. where i work, we receive a ring the first year of being a platinum level SFE member and every year you qualify again you get another diamond, not another ring. i paid $18 for my sanction fee and my weekly dues at our house is $13. i don't really think that is too much to be honest.

another300 · « **Reply #10 on:** January 31, 2008, 05:12:39 PM »

quote:
Yes the fees have risen in recent years, and the awards have backed off. Personally, I think you should get 1 ring for a 298, 299, and a 300 in your career. Why do you need 5 rings because you shot 5 300s over 8 years? Most people don't wear them anyways. That would save a LOT of money for other things that USBC SHOULD be doing to help better the sport.

I'm not sure what you all are paying, but my sanctioning is $20 a year. and an extra 7 or 9 if I want to be a sport member. Since when is that a lot of money? How many bowling balls do some of you buy a year that cost 150+? But $20 for our sanctioning body is breaking you?

As for most of the non-sanctioned leagues I know, they usually end up adopting the USBC rule book for 99% of the rules anyways. The shot the houses put out has been and always will be dictated by the bowlers. Bowling Alleys still need to make money, and unhappy customers go places that make them happy.

That is the biggest grip for alot of people, "Fees have gone up and awards have become cheaper or been eliminated". Which is one of many questions, what is the USBC doing with the money? How are they managing the funds? If they don't verify lanes to make sure they are within compliance then what are they doing? The rule book hasn't changed much so they can't be spending time and money on that.

Just wondering what the Pro's and Con's are if USBC was eliminated.

We have a few;
How would we verify Averages?
Non-sanctioned leagues are not competitive
Possibility of getting too many non carring drunks spilling beer
What rules will be followed if not covered in league rules
you save $20 sanction fee

Pro's
Money is insured thru USBC
Averages are tracked
you get awards for honor scores

lilmike2782 · « **Reply #11 on:** January 31, 2008, 05:32:50 PM »

if there wasn't a usbc, we wouldn't even be on this site right now and everyone would quit bowling or make other sanctioning bodies. like the xpba (spin off of the xfl) or like wrestling turned into a joke or 6 different MMA leagues. its too damn hard to keep up with. the USBC does the best it can regardless of what may be "fair/unfair" "expensive/cheap" but we are still gonna pay to bowl. its like gasoline prices, you get pissed about it, but unfortunately you still have to pay to drive.

notsohotshot · « **Reply #12 on:** January 31, 2008, 10:37:44 PM »

It seems to me that the USBC is run about the same as our US govt.We elect delegates that are suppose to vote for the opinions of the majority of the bowlers they represent.Nobody ever asked me what I think about any proposal that they have ever made.All the decisions are made by a few people instead of by a majority vote.With the use of computers a national vote would not be that hard or complicated.On another note we as bowlers can do everything that USBC does if we work together to do it.We can purchase insurance to protect our monies during the season,league sec.keep up with avg's anyway I don't know where this beer drinking problem came from but that is not really a function of USBC.But you could have a committee to decide those sorts of things.JMO.I don't like paying for something and getting nothing. Sounds like the US tax system doesn't it???

strikeking · « **Reply #13 on:** February 01, 2008, 07:21:20 PM »

Every sport whether casual or Pro needs a sanctioning body snd a set of rules to play by just as in life itself. So we NEED the USBC! That said, I see no reason to sanction a league if the bowlers do not want to. The league can adopt the USBC rules without sanctioning, they just will not have any final settlement of disputes or guarantee of league funds.
I have bowled many leagues of both kinds and enjoyed them all. Just make certain you have an honest secretary and president.
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Strikeking

1MechEng · « **Reply #14 on:** February 01, 2008, 07:25:48 PM »

I bowl in 1 sanctioned and 1 non-sanctioned league.
The sanctioned league is very nice ... predictable reaction every week.
The non-sanctioned league conditions are spotty at best ... usually a "fill shot" for the oil. Sometimes its's more of a reverse block than a true THS pattern. It all depends on the amount and type of open bowling before league. Frequently, the lanes are very different from one side of the pair to the other.
I like the sanctioned league for what it is ... and the unsanctioned league allows me to have more fun, even if I think the lane conditions aren't as good.
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======================
Dan
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Engineering * Bowling = a fun and practical application of rotational kinematics.

Bowling Nerd Herd (TM) Member

Author Topic: Non sanctioned leagues (Read 10356 times)

another300

Non sanctioned leagues

dechrist

Re: Non sanctioned leagues

shelley

Re: Non sanctioned leagues

Blackphantom1985

Re: Non sanctioned leagues

another300

Re: Non sanctioned leagues

lilmike2782

Re: Non sanctioned leagues

azguy

Re: Non sanctioned leagues

justdale

Re: Non sanctioned leagues

Madiballz23

Re: Non sanctioned leagues

lilmike2782

Re: Non sanctioned leagues

another300

Re: Non sanctioned leagues

lilmike2782

Re: Non sanctioned leagues

notsohotshot

Re: Non sanctioned leagues

strikeking

Re: Non sanctioned leagues

1MechEng

Re: Non sanctioned leagues