win a ball from Bowling.com
« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2

Author Topic: Color vs. CG  (Read 8288 times)

Strider

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6752
Color vs. CG
« on: July 19, 2007, 03:53:10 AM »
I guess it's my time for a topic many will hate.

Brunswick claims that ball color has an effect on reaction, since they claim a Strike Zone and a Red Zone with the same cover prep will behave differently.  I'm not trying to argue that one way or the other.  In the days of plastic, different White Dots did behave differently.  I wouldn't doubt color still has some impact, but my guess is that it would be very minor.

My question (more to the Brunswick reps) is:  Does color have a bigger impact than CG placement on a symmetric ball?

I think Brunswick puts the CG's value at 4-5% of ball reaction (or was that the weight hole with the CG's value being less?).  If you had to put a number on it, how important is color?  Other than plastic and some entry level resins (Power Grooves and Tropical Storms for example), you usually don't get the option of different colors of the same ball.  Occasionally, something like the Red/Strike Zone or Wizard/Nemesis comes up.  If two of the "same" ball were available at the same time, would you be more inclined to pick a color for a certain reaction, or more worry about the CG placement of the ball you drilled?

I really don't want 100 guesses from the uninformed.  Please only reply if you have some knowledge of the subject.
--------------------
Penn State Proud

Special thanks to Dynothane, Visionary, and Lane#1 for donations to the Ballreviews Get Together.

Ron Clifton's Bowling Tip Archive
Logged

 

Joe Jr

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2776
Re: Color vs. CG
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2007, 11:59:33 AM »
My question on this in the other thread went un noticed thanks to kiddie bickering, so I hope this thread gets a response.
--------------------
My Vid
Formerly Brunswick Lefty & Richard Cranium

Quote from Conspirator300:
And yeah, I do know it all.. I don't spend 30+ hours a week learning more about bowling for my heatlh... I do it so I know more than all of you.. which I do. (besides the random few that are staffers/work in the bowling business.. which that population is decreasing little by little)
Logged

triggerman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3352
Re: Color vs. CG
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2007, 12:31:53 PM »
in my opinion they are two separate issues

color is related to reaction to the dry
where as cg/statics are related to motion of the core

In my personal experience, lightly colored balls have been more snappish, longer then darker colored ones.  prime example is the power grooves by big b, for the most part the  yellow/chrome is the most angular of the bunch whereas the bluish ones tend to be more mellow (reaction to the dry)
--------------------
www.bowlingballexchange.com

Triggerman

F.O.S Loud, F.O.S. Proud

Lane #1 Baby

Logged

triggerman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3352
Re: Color vs. CG
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2007, 01:25:17 PM »
quote:
The only responce is

"Beating a dead horse..."

-Chris
--------------------
Brunswick and Hammer.. the best of the best.

Beans Pro Shop - Back Mountain, PA
Forum Moderator on BeansProShop.com - Home of the "Secret Sauce"

USBC Certified Level 1 Coach

http://www.personal.psu.edu/cmm5237 - My Website!

Penn State University


what exactly does that mean Chris?

someone asked a question concerning the two, a legitimate question. I have spoken at lenght with Tom Tomaras at big b concerning color and the reaction of balls.  his words were color played a part in reaction to the dry

statics have an effect on the ball, how much or how little is up for debate, with the amount of oil, the release of the bowler, the bowlers speed and the positioning of that static weight having effects on end result.  everyone wants to look at the word "static" which means it doesnt move, but once that ball is put into motion the "statics" can have a dynamic effect on the rolling mass, depending on ball speed, bowlers release, and amount of friction on the lane, then factor in thumb/finger weight, with those other factors and you can see sometimes dramatic effects in movement, moreso in pancake blocked balls, but cad analyisis can and do show the effects of the offset of that side wieght north or south of ones grip center, that coupled with a bowlers axis tilt can move things around, finger/thumb/side wieghts are all measured on the outer portion of the ball.  are those effects visible at 18 mph?  prolly not, are they visible at 10 mph, probably so

your better they thou, sticking your nose in a conversation where you choose to not add anything constuctive is disheartening, sure it may be a dead horse to you, but to the poster of the topic it is not.  My personal opinion, if you cant add anything one way or the other, quit being a post whore and bite your tongue
--------------------
www.bowlingballexchange.com

Triggerman

F.O.S Loud, F.O.S. Proud

Lane #1 Baby

Logged

mrbowlingnut

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5727
Re: Color vs. CG
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2007, 01:41:23 PM »
I believe that darker pigments do hook more, if you notice almost every large hooking ball is a dark blue,purple or black color. One of the few balls that is large hooking and light in color was the Vicious Particle the puke green one.

I have been told the same thing by pro shop operator's that are on Ebonite and Storm staffs, so it is pretty widely known in the business.

Maybe Lane 1 should release a Hot Pink Super Carbide Bomb Or a neon green Nv series ball to prove the theory wrong.
Logged

zone72

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 254
Re: Color vs. CG
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2007, 01:52:39 PM »
I already raise this color matter before. I 'm sure the color can affect the
ball's reaction.
First of all, I'm not in USA so i can get the Intl release. Start from the
Red Alert 300-light grey color (ZC intl ver.), we find the reaction of the ball is diferent from the original one. The RA 300 is skid than the ZC. After that
RA 900 (UI intl ver.) also. Than the Hyper Zone-S (OI intl ver.), RA Flash (SZ intl ver.) All the above got the differnt reaction with original with same layout.
Most of the intl release is great, but compare with the original, we all think
the original is a little bit better than the Intl release. The different between the Original and the Intl is Color only.
BTW, we will have another Intl release in Sep-the Prime Zone, a AI intl ver.
I saw a guy use the Prime Zone (a sample from Big B) and he said it is a great
ball same as the AI. Pls note that the Prime Zone is same color with the AI.

Logged

DanH78

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3913
Re: Color vs. CG
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2007, 02:01:48 PM »
quote:
I believe that darker pigments do hook more, if you notice almost every large hooking ball is a dark blue,purple or black color. One of the few balls that is large hooking and light in color was the Vicious Particle the puke green one.

I have been told the same thing by pro shop operator's that are on Ebonite and Storm staffs, so it is pretty widely known in the business.

Maybe Lane 1 should release a Hot Pink Super Carbide Bomb Or a neon green Nv series ball to prove the theory wrong.


What about the older balls?  The Teal Rhino Pro and Gold Rhino were hook monsters compared to the Purple Rhino.  The first 3-D was a pretty big hooking ball (not the most hook at the time, but it certainly wasn't a dry lane ball)
--------------------
How about a Fresca?
Logged
#10

mrbowlingnut

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5727
Re: Color vs. CG
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2007, 02:12:34 PM »
I never said all balls but if this was not true why is almost every big oiler is dark in color??? There has been some lighter color big hooking balls like the one and absolute infeno come to mind, i notice the ball companies use the more vibrant colors on low end stuff like a Tropical Storm ball.

Maybe because the new bowlers like the vibrant colors or maybe because the light pigments just hook less. I did not bowl before 1998 so for me to comment on old stuff would not be a good choice, this is my opinion nothing more.

Logged

DanH78

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3913
Re: Color vs. CG
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2007, 02:37:59 PM »
quote:
I never said all balls but if this was not true why is almost every big oiler is dark in color??? There has been some lighter color big hooking balls like the one and absolute infeno come to mind, i notice the ball companies use the more vibrant colors on low end stuff like a Tropical Storm ball.

Maybe because the new bowlers like the vibrant colors or maybe because the light pigments just hook less. I did not bowl before 1998 so for me to comment on old stuff would not be a good choice, this is my opinion nothing more.



Not trying to give you a hard time, I've never heard nor thought about color when it comes to hook potential.  

I wonder if there's a natural property in the darker color pigments that lend to hook potential or if there is something psychological therefore the companies make the darker balls hook more???
--------------------
How about a Fresca?
Logged
#10

Strider

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6752
Re: Color vs. CG
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2007, 09:17:31 AM »
Morning bump.  Still hoping to get some input from Brunswick.

Color used to have some impact, but I would think it would be waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyy down the list of priorities on modern equipment that I'm surprised that Brunswick would even mention it.

For Chris:  It's not a dead subject.  This isn't another CG discussion topic.  Brunswick mentioned the relevance of color and I'm curious to see it's importance.
--------------------
Penn State Proud

Special thanks to Dynothane, Visionary, and Lane#1 for donations to the Ballreviews Get Together.

Ron Clifton's Bowling Tip Archive
Logged

triggerman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3352
Re: Color vs. CG
« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2007, 10:07:57 AM »
all one has to do is look at the power groove series of balls and see all the same covered reactive balls (differening colors) to see a difference in reaction.  seems the yellow/chrome was the most angular of the bunch with the darker colors being more rollish
--------------------
www.bowlingballexchange.com

Triggerman

F.O.S Loud, F.O.S. Proud

Lane #1 Baby

Logged

kmanestor22

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 969
Re: Color vs. CG
« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2007, 12:56:42 PM »
If the pigment alters the properties of the coverstock that much, then they should consider every different color of the same coverstock a seperate entity.  Dark blue Activator is different from red Activator and such.  I just don't understand why they would add something to the cover that would change its properties.  Seems like with all the years of experience and all the technology available, they would have solved this problem long ago.
--------------------
Where is the bait?  I'm goin' to jail!!! - Chocolate GAYzer
Logged

charlest

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 24523
Re: Color vs. CG
« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2007, 01:02:08 PM »
quote:
If the pigment alters the properties of the coverstock that much, then they should consider every different color of the same coverstock a seperate entity.  Dark blue Activator is different from red Activator and such.  I just don't understand why they would add something to the cover that would change its properties.  Seems like with all the years of experience and all the technology available, they would have solved this problem long ago.
--------------------
Where is the bait?  I'm goin' to jail!!! - Chocolate GAYzer


because people are already confused enough as it is?

Because people still think every ball is the same and and the only way to get a different reaction is to drill them differently?

Because the generic (200 avg)bowler is a blithering moron? (or is that too truthful or too harsh; can't be sure anymore)
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Logged
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

kmanestor22

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 969
Re: Color vs. CG
« Reply #13 on: July 20, 2007, 01:11:08 PM »
As with CGMADDAH/NOMADDAH, there isn't a way to prove/disprove this.  It comes down to your opinion of what you saw the ball do on the lane.  There may just be some truth here though.  Every ball I've thrown an 800 with has had dark blue pigment in it: AMF Victory, Dyno-Thane Anomaly, and 2 with a MoRich Awesome Hook.
--------------------
Where is the bait?  I'm goin' to jail!!! - Chocolate GAYzer
Logged

BrunsNick

  • Brunswick Rep
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7306
Re: Color vs. CG
« Reply #14 on: July 20, 2007, 03:17:13 PM »
Color has a dramatic effect on reaction, just ask the folks at AMF when they released the original XS. Ball was tested with a variety of colors and performed above expectations, but was released with the untested TOP SECRET white coverstock. The rest is history.
--------------------
Nick Smith ... A.K.A. Les Badderâ„¢
Brunswick -=- PBA 03-07
http://www.BrunsNick.com
http://www.AskTheBowler.com
http://www.BigBapparel.com
Friends don't let friends drink the Kool-Aid!
Logged
Nick Smith
Digital Media Manager - Brunswick Bowling
http://www.brunswickbowling.com
http://www.youtube.com/c/brunsnick
Pages: [1] 2
« previous next »