I can not say this is TRUE for all drillers, but I have experienced a few things since moving to Florida.

In New Jersey, California and Maine, I never had a driller ask me about my PAP or find it before drilling a new ball. I moved to Florida just over a year ago and since then I have had more then one driller talk about PAP.

Maybe this is something new and they are now realizing that it will help them layout a ball. Some might not be convinced that it actually helps lay out a ball.

Before I get ripped for being an idiot, I am going to say that this is just an opinion. Could be way off, but it might also be the reason some do not worry about it.
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T.J.

BOWLING IS FUN NO MATTER WHAT YOU SCORE. BUT A 300 IS ALWAYS NICE.

STRIKE ZONE, ONSLAUGHT & PYRO. STAND 22 AND THROW 10 OUT TO 5 AND CRUSH THE POCKET. AT LEAST THAT IS THE PLAN OF THE NIGHT...

GOOD LUCK AND GOOD BOWLING!!!

ttt

It's possible that they simply don't share all that info while they're doing the layout.  Experts frequently have more information rattling around in their heads than comes out of their mouths.  It may look to you like he's doing "pin over the fingers with the CG kicked right" and that may be what he describes to you (not knowing whether "5x4" or "PAP" means anything to you).  But in his head, he knows that putting the pin over the bridge means 5" because your PAP is about 5" over.  5", 5 1/4", 4 3/4", really will it make a difference if he measures it out with a ruler?

That was my experience when I got my last ball drilled.  The first time I went to him, he looked at my existing equipment and determined my PAP.  The second time he didn't mention PAP at all, though he did pull my card to check my specs.

SH

Hi,

 Yes it matters if he uses a ruler....i want an exact or the closes to my PAP as possible...no guessing games please...and what about an access hole?...just place it anywhere?...if they don't go by my PAP...then the ball more times than not will not react the way i wanted it to for that particluar house shot, etc

In defense of the pro shop guys, maybe they don't ask because of the dumb looks they get from people when they do ask the questions. Maybe they are figuring that if someone knows their PAP, axis tilt, etc. they will provide the information when they present the ball they are looking to be drilled.

From all the reading I have done here and other places online, when I go to the proshop I ask for the quarter scale and do the layout myself. Not as an insult but because I can and it takes a little bit of guesswork away from them. They don't mind if i do it. After the ball is layed out I hand it to them and they drill it. It's actually pretty funny when someone comes in asking about bowling balls and they see me laying my next ball out and they want to know what I am doing.
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There's no crying in bowling....now shot the ten pin

Hi,
 Thanks for the suggestions and will keep them in mind...but it still amazes me how you fork over 200+ dollars for a ball and they give you around a 4x5 drilling, or a 5x4 drilling and thats too any person regardless if there a stroker,cranker, etc...with different ball speeds...i'm not saying all do this but more do than not...I have 4 ball drillers around here and i won't go to any of them...i get mine online with great results...I have alot of people i know that get new balls and there unhappy with it unless they tweak the cover considerably...would you buy a high price pearlized ball and have to sand it down to 400 grit?...maybe the drillers don't have time to analyze every one buying a ball...but at least ask some questions to give the bowler the best bang for his buck...but no one has answered this question....why do drillers are in such shock when they see a ball drilled from the guys at the Nationals?...its rather quite obvious

Yo,

Mike,

Many shops simply don't have the time to take every bowler's specs.  Yeah you can have the 15-20 regulars whom you know their style and specs, have measured their PAP at least once and can reccommend drillings based off that measurment.  But what about every other bowler who comes in for that one ball a year.  There is no way I can take even 1/3 of my customers down to the lanes to see them bowl and take their PAP measurments.  

Don't get me wrong i'd love to be able to do that for my customers because many would actually benefit from the added information.  But then many would also dismiss my attempts to take measurments and watch them bowl as me being arrogant and telling them what they should do and how they should bowl.  They are the ones in charge of their game and I let them be drilling bals how they ask me to.

Have you actually seen some of the yahoo's that come into proshops telling us how to layout their balls.  Stack this, leverage that, strong this, long and strong that, 1/4oz.side, 1/2oz. side, 3/4oz. side.  Half the stuff people want is not relevant to current ball technology.  So when we cater to what the people want we get them coming back saying this ball won't hook on our short, dry house shot.  Well, a 3 3/8 stacked with a big hole Awesome Hook won't be awesome on a toasty house shot.  

When we don't cater to people and apply the right drillings on the right coverstocks with the right cores for people we get many coming back saying "you drilled this wrong," "why do I have a hole?" "I don't usually have the pin here."  And there's really no way out of this; even when those balls are working.  Yeah we can get lucky and convince the bowler to get a coverstock that matches up better but who knows if that'll happen.  

As far as only laying out balls according to one's axis point; that's a little deep off the anal retentive end.  If that's how you feel comfortable laying out your equipment then by all means keep it up, but like others have said that 1/4" difference of length from pin to axis is not going to have a huge bearing on the reaction you get.  If you feel it does, like I said, more power to you and I hope you can find a drilling that will cater to your requests.  I would be one of them.  I would feel miffed as you do about certain drillers not laying out a ball without your PAP measurments in mind; but unless you have a less common low track or short PAP, 4 3/4 or less, than most generic drills will work with surface prep.  

The hard part of this whole situation is that bowlers like you are far and few between. I think that is the main reason all balls aren't laid out according to a bowler's PAP.  It's just not absolutely necessary to the average bowler that comes into the shop.

I have a few questions for you though...

Why do you not have a favorite driller that you go to?  Is there really no one around you that can lay out a ball around your PAP?

Where is it that you are getting your stuff drilled?
-"but don't give a hoot about PAP (positive axis point)...every time i've had a ball drilled here...they take the measurements but never ask about PAP....unless i say something about it....."

Why would you not give your PAP measurments to a new driller if you have them?  It's like you're setting up the driller to fail when you kinda know he's not going to ask.

Why is the USBC so much better in you're opinion?  (really, i've seen good and bad there, just want to here your ideas)

And finally, what's wrong with changing the coverstock of a ball?  It's the most important factor on any ball.  The coverstock is what's getting you to the pocket.  If the ball's not getting to the pocket than no drilling you put on it will help.

Please don't take any of this as an attack at you.  I really respect your dedication to laying out your equipment, but someone had to defend the proshops and give their side of the layout story.


*backswing

PS - I think I just misspelled layed/laid wrong the entire time...oh well.



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*...Got the 5 out clean!

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