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Author Topic: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??  (Read 17725 times)

TheDude

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Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
« on: November 17, 2008, 03:34:05 PM »
After talking with a customer that still has an absolute inferno, many years after its original release, I got to thinking alot. He mentioned that he still liked the ball alot. I have had a change of heart over the course of 4 years with brunswick. Honestly, them going to mexico and the radical inferno really left a bad taste in my mouth.

For me its not a labour issue, because my political views not important to the issue but they needed to for many understandable reasons besides the point the move to mexico was neccessary and a neccessity.

For me, in my proshop they just havent been able to get that lightening in a bottle since the absolute inferno and classic zone.

The ball with a lower rg simple single desinty core, and strong cover that was sanded but still had alot of grip and finish in the backend, not loosing energy and easy to polish. Of course i speak of activator.

In my area as much as the ball companies think that centers are introducing new oils every single year, our area isn't. In the last 4 or 5 years the volume of units, and types of oil have stayed the same. Volumes havent increased, and all the products coming out constantly boasting stronger covers with more midlane bite and handle more oil, they really arent getting higher scores. A re-release of the absolute inferno i think would sell again so well it would be really the saving grace of brunswick.

Im not a crack pot or whackjob because i see first hand the products passing through the market and see the products sometimes are just a hard sell.

I know everyone will put in there two cents, but the following were duds, and have been either on special and have never been backordered. Which usually is a sign of a product selling out faster than a market can handle.

The radical was hit and miss, blast zone, all the furys, were surrounded with contraversy, and the twisted original has been offered to me by more than one distributor on a specials list.

I have been throwing the twisted fury destruction, lately and not really impressed. its backend is average and  below average for the wholesale price performance.

I dont know if its the coverstock on it or the core, but if you were to take the activator and put that on any of the cores brunswick is making right now, how well would it react??



Honestly who would look at buying brunswick again if they put activator on some kind of decent core again? I certainly would again maybe. There brunswick stuff right now is the hardest sell on the ball wall. A new release from brunswick is struggling to create a buzz at all.


--------------------
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noturcuzin

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Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2008, 11:45:12 PM »
I "Absolute"ly agree. Seriously, the Absolute Inferno and the Intense Inferno were my favorite Inferno's they made. Because of Activator+ coverstock. A tremendous core with a strong cover with good backend motion, what more could you ask for? It seems to me that a lot of companies are competing now a days to make the biggest hooking ball, which lots of us don't see enough oil to use anyway. If they were to bring back the Absolute Inferno I would buy one. I have strayed away from Brunswick and moved on to trying out other companies like InSite, Banger, 900 Global. I am a huge InSite fan, ever since I first threw the Prophecy I fell in love right away.
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Edited on 11/18/2008 0:49 AM

rockerbowler18

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Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2008, 11:54:47 PM »
Couldn't agree more. Radical - have it. Hit and miss. Mostly miss. Not impressed.

The ball was a spare ball from games 1-20 until I got a track in it. Then it was a beast til game 70. Then it didn't carry, but still hit the pocket up until game 100. After game 100ish...ball was a piece. Rejuvenated, resurfaced, etc. Just never did like it again. It's overunder, uncontrollable, and hits like a pillow.

Total Inferno - have it. Uncontrollable, not too predictable. Sometimes works when it should, sometimes works when it seems like it shouldn't, sometimes doesn't work when it should...who knows!? It's a guessing game with the newer Brunsstuff for me. And, on top of that...the fury line sucked. The only decent one was the Twisted Fury Pearl (the red/white/black one) and even it wasn't that great.

On Edit:

Avalanche Pearl is alright. Really fit a gap my arsenal had...so 'grats on that one. Simple core/cover combo worked really well...but I think Ebonite has something that would work even better in its place: Bash (red/black/brown version).

Also, I better watch what I say, LOL, Brunswick sponsors JAT!

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Edited on 11/18/2008 0:58 AM

KennyRambo

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Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2008, 12:05:40 AM »
The absolute Inferno was one of the only brunswick balls I liked.

BrunsNick

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Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2008, 12:12:04 AM »
They're all money balls.
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Verbs

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Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2008, 07:59:09 AM »
TheDude,

It really comes down to consumer perception.

Back in the late 90's/early 00's, it was "cool" to throw Storm equipment because of the motion it made, for some people, at the backend. Plus, PDW & Robert Smith were on staff at that time.

With the introduction of the Inferno in 2003, it became "cool" again to throw Brunswick. Brunswick taught "mid-lane control" to improve consumers scores.
 
This was successful until Ebonite introduced The One. The One, while a fantastic piece, wasn't a whole lot different in reaction than Brunswick releases. But about that time was when Brunswick announced the move to Mexico. So there was some fall out because of this. Plus, the first few releases from the new plant were, at best, hit & miss.

So it became "cool" to throw Ebonite through the introduction of the Total NV.

But during this time, Hammer introduces the Black Widow. Again, a reaction not that dissimilar to The One or brunswick, but a great marketing campaign and good ball reaction for consumers have sold this ball. So it became "cool" to throw Hammer.  

Roto-Grip knocked Hammer off its perch for a period of time last spring with the introduction of the Cell. But Hammer releases the Black Widow Venom and regained the top spot again.

I don't think it is so much lighting in a bottle. It comes down to what the consumers "believe" is good ball reaction for them. Ebonite/Hammer have done the best marketing the past few years and have gotten consumers to "believe" in their products.

The bowling ball market is very sickular. It is easier to get to the top than it is to stay there.

Reintroducing a product will give companies a quick, small spike. But marketing to consumers and pro shops and getting them to believe in your product is the key to increasing ball sales.

Ebonite & Hammer have done the best job the past few years, but don't expect that to last forever.

Sorry for the rant.

Verbs


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Larry Verble

CharlieBrown

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Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2008, 08:05:21 AM »
Verbs has described what I see in my area prefectly.

Way back when every Joes and Janes were thowing X-Factors, then Big B Infernos and Zones, then you got the No Mercy, NVs and Black Widows, and more recently Cells and Venoms.

!!!
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Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2008, 08:29:54 AM »
Well said Verbs.

I happen to be extremely happy with the Copperhead, Swarm, Maxxx, and Destruction, as well as some all time favorites such as the Absolute, Vapor, Fury Pearl, and Strike Zone.

The bowler has to decide whether "skid/snap on every ball" is really going to get him anywhere except king of the house shots. There is a lot to be said about midlane read with a controllable back end.


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Lane Carter, Strike Zone Pro Shops - Salt Lake City, Utah
Brunswick Amateur Staff
www.brunswickbowling.com

Edited on 11/18/2008 9:31 AM

Edited on 11/20/2008 9:45 AM

dizzyfugu

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Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2008, 08:31:30 AM »
quote:
There is a lot to be said about midlane read with a controllable back end.


Then big B better had kept the Smash Zone in a dark corner of their labs
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MTD300

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Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2008, 05:48:31 PM »
quote:


But during this time, Hammer introduces the Black Widow. Again, a reaction not that dissimilar to The One or brunswick, but a great marketing campaign and good ball reaction for consumers have sold this ball. So it became "cool" to throw Hammer.  





Hi Larry, which ball(s) do you feel were close to reaction with the Original Black Widow in the Brunswick line?

kidlost2000

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Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2008, 07:23:42 PM »
I like some of the newer Brunswick stuff like the Ultra Zone and the Maxxx Zone which look like great bowling balls. I love the overseas stuff I was able to get(chance zone, solid zone, and kick zone along with many Revolutions) the Ultra and Maxxx zones look like they brought that look to their U.S. lineup along with the twisted series.

I don't care for the swarm and the copperhead they look iffy and will probably not have any follow ups. Can't blame them for the effort, sometimes you never know what might be popular.

What I can say is a HUGE NEGATIVE is the made in MEXICO stickers and product. They have had a lot of production problems from the beginning and I'm starting to see the results often and I don't even own a proshop.

A revolution ball that had a messed up label where the logo was a blob of scribble. Power Grooves with no cg marked, and others with three marked. A avalanche pearl with two cgs marked and a Fury Pearl with no MB marked.

That to me is horrible quality control and is not exceptable. That is where they need to focus their attention.
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" hand, don't step on the lanes without some "
you can't  add a physics term to a bowling term and expect it to mean something.

Verbs

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Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2008, 08:08:26 PM »
Back in the day, the Vapor Zone was very close to the original Black Widow. The Zone Classic was a better ball, to me, than the Black Widow Pearl. Especially when carrydown is present.

Before I get BBQ'd, this is just my opinion.

Verbs
quote:
quote:


But during this time, Hammer introduces the Black Widow. Again, a reaction not that dissimilar to The One or brunswick, but a great marketing campaign and good ball reaction for consumers have sold this ball. So it became "cool" to throw Hammer.  





Hi Larry, which ball(s) do you feel were close to reaction with the Original Black Widow in the Brunswick line?

--------------------
Larry Verble

SleepOnIce

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Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2008, 08:27:26 PM »
Nothing really to add to the overall topic but:

quote:
had a lot of problems with the no mercy series with severely mismarked mb markings
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGs6ULm2ZA8


The No Mercy series did not mark the Mass Bias, they had a HART mark that was some distance from the actual Mass Bias. The idea was to put this marking in the track for length and aggressive flip. It said this on the drill sheet and most boxes had a giant "STOP" sign on the top that warned about this.

Someone smarter than me can say how far the actual mass bias was from the HART mark. Also, if you already knew this, please disregard my post.
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BLARGH

Edited on 11/18/2008 9:29 PM

kidlost2000

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Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2008, 10:22:02 PM »
I dont put that much into the MB. If the mb is in perfect line with the pin and cg on the ball then almost every pattern that would  put the mb to the right of the thumb(which is recommended, or at least use to be) for right handed bowlers is a type of leverage pattern.

You drill a ball like that over label or almost any pattern with the cg in the palm and the mb will be left of the thumb everytime and that is suppose to be bad????

Is the hart just another name for the mb, similar to the bomb or whatever hammer/faball called it on the wheel back in the day.
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" hand, don't step on the lanes without some "
you can't  add a physics term to a bowling term and expect it to mean something.

Brickguy221

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Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2008, 11:01:59 PM »
Speaking of back in the 90's, my favorite line of balls were the Quantums. Beginning with the Forest Green, that is all I owned plus 2-3 Columbia's that I didn't much care for. I liked almost all of them except the Quantum Leap and the Quantum Helix. Back in the 80's & 90's, I was almost totally dedicated to Brunswick, but then began drifting away when AMF came out with the Angle Evolution line of balls and Storm the Trauma line of balls and the Triple x, Triple X Extreme, and etc. Since then, it has been a bit of everything.
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