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Author Topic: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??  (Read 17733 times)

TheDude

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Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
« on: November 17, 2008, 03:34:05 PM »
After talking with a customer that still has an absolute inferno, many years after its original release, I got to thinking alot. He mentioned that he still liked the ball alot. I have had a change of heart over the course of 4 years with brunswick. Honestly, them going to mexico and the radical inferno really left a bad taste in my mouth.

For me its not a labour issue, because my political views not important to the issue but they needed to for many understandable reasons besides the point the move to mexico was neccessary and a neccessity.

For me, in my proshop they just havent been able to get that lightening in a bottle since the absolute inferno and classic zone.

The ball with a lower rg simple single desinty core, and strong cover that was sanded but still had alot of grip and finish in the backend, not loosing energy and easy to polish. Of course i speak of activator.

In my area as much as the ball companies think that centers are introducing new oils every single year, our area isn't. In the last 4 or 5 years the volume of units, and types of oil have stayed the same. Volumes havent increased, and all the products coming out constantly boasting stronger covers with more midlane bite and handle more oil, they really arent getting higher scores. A re-release of the absolute inferno i think would sell again so well it would be really the saving grace of brunswick.

Im not a crack pot or whackjob because i see first hand the products passing through the market and see the products sometimes are just a hard sell.

I know everyone will put in there two cents, but the following were duds, and have been either on special and have never been backordered. Which usually is a sign of a product selling out faster than a market can handle.

The radical was hit and miss, blast zone, all the furys, were surrounded with contraversy, and the twisted original has been offered to me by more than one distributor on a specials list.

I have been throwing the twisted fury destruction, lately and not really impressed. its backend is average and  below average for the wholesale price performance.

I dont know if its the coverstock on it or the core, but if you were to take the activator and put that on any of the cores brunswick is making right now, how well would it react??



Honestly who would look at buying brunswick again if they put activator on some kind of decent core again? I certainly would again maybe. There brunswick stuff right now is the hardest sell on the ball wall. A new release from brunswick is struggling to create a buzz at all.


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tizzle

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Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
« Reply #16 on: November 18, 2008, 11:33:44 PM »
Proactive Zone anyone, I need a replacement to that ball!

SleepOnIce

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Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
« Reply #17 on: November 19, 2008, 07:24:03 AM »
quote:
disregarded



sorry the hart anyway the markings for the hart were up above the pin and the cg below sorry should have explained more I know when you say something that possibly could be wrong you get ten people jumping down your throat luckily I explained my self before the rest came to the party
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Edited on 11/19/2008 4:59 AM


Ah alright, sorry I misunderstood you.
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BLARGH

MTD300

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Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
« Reply #18 on: November 19, 2008, 09:12:00 AM »
I think the Brunswick stuff is great, but no ball in the whole line compares to the original Black Widow. The Vapor Zone was good but NOTHING compares to the Black Widow. Brunswick has been behind the competition with the last few releases....the Brunswick stuff is by hard the hardest to push. The new Destruction and MaxxX Zone will sell themselves just by shelf appeal and the hype they have, I'm already on backorder for the MaxxX Zone.

HamPster

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Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
« Reply #19 on: November 19, 2008, 06:59:26 PM »
Brunswick stuff is largely misunderstood . .  The typical league bowler likes to see a ball fly down the lane and flip hard on the back.  Brunswick stuff doesn't do that.  However, when the lanes go to trash, and other companies either leave you going brooklyn or with washouts, Brunswick will keep you in the pocket.  Brunswick, I believe, is all about control.  Brunswick balls if ever, are rarely hard to control.  If I ever went somewhere and had no clue what the shot was gonna be like, I'd want a Brunswick ball.  Brunswick may not fit everyone's game, but unless I'm mistaken, I believe there's been at least one Brunswick staffer on every tv show so far this year, with a win to boot.  I think they've had several "it" balls, but for some reason they've gone unnoticed.  Balls like the Blast Zone, Ultra Zone, and especially Twisted Fury . .  My Blast is incredible, I haven't found a shot yet that it won't match up with.  I have no idea why the original Fury wasn't more popular . . it's rarely been out of my bag since I got it.
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BrunsBob

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Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
« Reply #20 on: November 20, 2008, 07:15:32 AM »
I will not comment too much on the quality concerns other than that every company has issues, ours are just magnified by many because of our move to Mexico. We have addressed every issue that occurs and either eliminated the problem or reduced the percentage of mishaps. In this type of production it is impossible to eliminate flaws, you can only hope to reduce and control them as best as possible. It will continue to be an ongoing issue for all ball companies. Keep in mind, were not producing the same products over and over and over. Everytime we introduce a new ball it comes with new production procedures and effects that have to be adjusted too. Most balls, with success, are only produced on about 3 runs, then it's on to the next new ball. Hard to perfect anything in this type of environment, you can only hope to minimize the hiccups.

With that being said, there are many "good" balls on the market. Most "good" balls are usually "conditional" type balls, looking their best when used on the proper conditions. What makes a ball great, in my opinion as a bowler and long time shop owner, comes with many factors that all fall into place. It must be driller friendly, meaning that it's not a guessing game as to what the ball will most likely do for each and every bowler. It must have a cover that is easily tweakable in order to completely match the ball to the bowler and still not change it's intended characteristics. It must have good ball life with less need for ball maintenance. And, believe it or not, it must be good looking and have a good name. Oh yeah, and it must be good for almost every type of game and usuable on multiple lane conditions. Of course, no one ball will be awesome in oil and great on dry, but when you can take one ball and make it, say, great on oil and very usable on medium, then you've done something.

Well, we did something. We did the MAXXX ZONE. This is, in my opinion, the best ball we've made since the aforementioned Absolute Inferno. I honestly believe I can put this ball in 95% of bowlers hands on 75% of lane conditions. The Twisted Fury Destruction is good, but when used as a strong skid/flip ball, not a heavy oil ball. The Avalanche Slide is a good ball, but only when used on medium to dry conditions that don't see a lot of carrydown. Like I said, every company has their really good balls, as do we when bowlers use them on the right conditions that the ball is meant for. But, if you need that one ball to really widen your eyes, it's the MAXXX.

Believe me folks, as hard as some of you guys are on us about quality, we come down even harder on our ball plant in an effort to continue to improve. If you think for one minute that we ignore these issues, you're greatly mistaken. If you think we deny having these flaws, again, you're wrong. But, are we getting better, you bet your butt we are. And, it's never ending. Each new ball has it's own challenges. I was amazed the first time I saw what went into producing a bowling ball. I, too, used to think..."How hard could it be". LOL. You'd be shocked out how hard it actually is. But, that's part of the challenge of being in the bowling ball business, and we're in it for the long run, longer than anyone in the business by far.

Thanks to all of those who love our products. Thanks to all of those who have at least tried our products. And even thanks go to all of those that keep us on our toes. Just don't hate. Really. It's bowling balls we're talking about, not life and death. This game is meant to be fun, and the balls we use to play it are just part of the joy and excitement. Don't let the balls, the lane conditions, or your counterparts take away from loving this game. Always try to find a way to enjoy each outing on the lanes. AND, spread the word about bowling. Let's not hang it out to dry, let's all do our part to repair it and bring it back to a healthy life. We wouldn't be on these forums if we didn't like the game.

Okay, that's all. I'll step off the box. LOL

RoB LaW
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CharlieBrown

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Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
« Reply #21 on: November 20, 2008, 08:20:04 AM »
*claps*

Standing O.


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don coyote

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Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
« Reply #22 on: November 20, 2008, 08:34:26 AM »
Prime Zone-Overseas Absolute Inferno
Vapor Zone
Red Zone
Total Inferno
Blue Alien-BRUNSWICK PORED
Ambush
Twisted Fury
Ultra Zone
These are ALL NIB.
     
        I agree with you. I for ever reason scored better with activator covers. Even MORE with activator+. The twisted and ultra are the EXCEPTIONS. I despise the new covers starting with ebonites the one. They absorb oil way to fast, and it has continued over to the hammers and most others, with the exception of LANE MASTER, AND VISIONARY. I have 5 LANEMASTERS, (Conqueror, World Class Particle, Yeah Baby, Bullet and XXXL), 3 VISIONARY, (Granite Gargoyle, Violet Gargoyle-NIB, and Green Gargoyle-NIB). Storm has kinda lost me ever since the whole ball cracking away from the fingers episode.

     I don't see the trend changing any time soon. The new balls are so strong the ball manufacturers have resorted to ALMOST all companies have gone to drillings with the pins very close to the VERTICAL grip line.

     I am not a ball expert, I just know what works for me. I am more inconsistent with the big hooking balls. The BIG hook is sexier, but I score better and more consistent with OLDER less aggressive balls.

     I still have a TRAUMA ER I love to use in the new fall leagues. When the lanes are inconsistent because of the rapid weather changes with humidity being foremost in my mind. I have heard the lane machine guy say it's not possible to see the change in the oil, I strongly disagree, why do the 2 end pairs of lanes leave the least consistent scores. I believe it the cold and humidity. I may be way off board here. That is what I see with my end of league, lane average sheet. (I have shot a 300 and 795 on 1 and 2), that is the exception.
   These are just things I have noticed.


THESE ARE THE RANTS OF A RANDOM, VERY CLUTTERED MIND!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited on 11/20/2008 4:41 PM

los2003

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Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
« Reply #23 on: November 20, 2008, 08:39:57 AM »
I know this is off topic but people praise the original blck widow but it had the exact same ball reaction as the big blue for me. the big blue or pearl just was not marketed almost at all. it was virually the same gas mask core

Verbs

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Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
« Reply #24 on: November 20, 2008, 10:48:25 AM »
WOW!!!!! Brunsbob, what a great statement!!!!

How do you have time to think and write all of that with everything on your plate currently.

Give me a shout sometime.

Verbs
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Doug Sterner

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Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
« Reply #25 on: November 20, 2008, 10:40:58 PM »
The Copperhead is about the best Brunswick ball I have seen in awhile.

I personally love my Blast Zone but it's discontinued!!!! I picked up a used Ultra to try out but we'll see.
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TheDude

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Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
« Reply #26 on: November 21, 2008, 08:03:48 AM »
A remake or private pour much like the ultimate inferno would be good. AMF had no problems doing it with the TNT. Ebonite re-released the one, and storm's T roads are updated from there 90s release.

andrew, early, and steve are doing it. why cant bob release a gaurenteed home run?
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Timothy @Juniors Pro-Shops
LaSalle, Quebec
Located inside Pont Mercier Lanes.
Edmonton, Alberta.
Located inside Ed's Rec Room.(WEST ED MALL)
King Of Roto-Grip In Canada.
Keep them honest!


www.juniorsproshop.com now open serving the world.
Timothy @Juniors Pro-Shops
LaSalle, Quebec-Located inside Pont Mercier Lanes.
Keep them honest!

Ebay store updated very often: http://stores.ebay.com/gumby3170?refid+store

JustRico

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Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
« Reply #27 on: November 21, 2008, 08:56:36 AM »
Timothy

Do you realize what goes into being/making a homerun ball?

The amount of 'right' things are somewhat astronomical.

Why was the Danger Zone a homerun? Was it because it was black? Was it because it had the 'Z' on both sides, making it appear like it revved more, going down the lane? Was it because WRW won 6 times in one year using it?

Why was the Absolute Inferno a success? Versatility? Reaction? Again color?

Why did the Cell solid sell so many units? Dark color? Strong hooking ball? Numerous TV shows?

What made the Widow series so hot? Again dark colors? Strong reaction down lane?

I have been involved in numerous ball tests, as well as demoes of many of these balls, side by side and PERCEPTION is HUGE and sometimes bigger than reality in reaction perception. You would be surprised at how close, balls react to each other, especially on house conditions, which is where 90% of these balls are used, as well as SOLD.

SO what makes a ball better than another...bowler's PERCEPTION, as well as the pro shop operators.

So again, how do you not know that a certain ball is not a homerun...already? Hype creates so much of a ball's success.

And who are Andrew, Early or Steve?
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CharlieBrown

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Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
« Reply #28 on: November 21, 2008, 09:38:29 AM »
quote:

And who are Andrew, Early or Steve?



AMF, Ebonite and Storm. But yeah, who ARE they?  
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JustRico

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Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
« Reply #29 on: November 21, 2008, 10:03:25 AM »
If you mean designers, Ebonite is Ron Hickland, Storm is now Doene Moos and I am not sure who AMF is.

Do you really think that the designers are the ones, that create 'lightning in a bottle' when it comes to a homerun ball?

Or is it marketing, hype, color or reaction? Or again perception?
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Formerly BrunsRico
Co-author of Head Games ~ the MENTAL approach to bowling (and sports) available NOW!
Be prepared for the next (r)EVOLUTION...(r)eVolve the NEXT phase of BOWLING...CREATING BETTER BOWLERS BY CREATING SMARTER BOWLERS...
www.HYBowlingConcepts.com
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BeansProShop

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Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
« Reply #30 on: November 21, 2008, 12:55:20 PM »
Very,very well put Ric..

Or is it static weight?

Seriously though...
Well said. It is hard to explain that sometimes..

Beans
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