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Author Topic: Hybrid Coverstocks.....Question  (Read 11787 times)

TheGom

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Hybrid Coverstocks.....Question
« on: June 27, 2014, 07:34:15 PM »
Looking at a Storm Fusion and knowing that it has a hybrid coverstock my question is this...

I understand that this coverstock is a blend of a Solid and a Pearl and that no two shells are poured the same way, meaning equal parts in certain areas of the ball.

So, is it possible that a ball can turn out with a higher percentage of the solid or Pearl additives in the track area then others?

Would this make each ball have a slightly different length....solid shorter and Pearl longer?

I was looking at two different Fusions and one was mainly gold in the track area and the other was mainly blue in the track area and got me thinking about this, thus the question.

Thanks in Advance
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billdozer

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Re: Hybrid Coverstocks.....Question
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2014, 08:33:45 PM »
I always think about that...ball to ball.  I would say we are thinking too much!
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Ratt_bowling

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Re: Hybrid Coverstocks.....Question
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2014, 08:48:06 PM »
There is an argument that the type of coverstock makes no difference.  Just the surface.

http://www.ballreviews.com/hammer/hammer-bowling-balls-diagram-for-easier-understanding-t303258.0.html;msg2478048;topicseen#new.
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amyers2002

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Re: Hybrid Coverstocks.....Question
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2014, 09:10:26 PM »
Quote from: TheGom on June 27, 2014, 07:34:15 PM
Looking at a Storm Fusion and knowing that it has a hybrid coverstock my question is this...

I understand that this coverstock is a blend of a Solid and a Pearl and that no two shells are poured the same way, meaning equal parts in certain areas of the ball.

So, is it possible that a ball can turn out with a higher percentage of the solid or Pearl additives in the track area then others?

Would this make each ball have a slightly different length....solid shorter and Pearl longer?

I was looking at two different Fusions and one was mainly gold in the track area and the other was mainly blue in the track area and got me thinking about this, thus the question.

Thanks in Advance

I wouldn't pay any attention to the colors. They vary by the pour but they are not taking the pearl and the solid and just randomly poring them in the ball moulds. The blue and the gold are the same cover stock just different colors.

As mentioned we have been discussing if there is a difference between any of these cover stocks truly or if it is just surface prep that makes the difference. The truth is I don't know but would love to see the test.

If there isn't any difference and it's just surface it's one of the most unquestioned marketing ploys of all time.
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JustRico

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Re: Hybrid Coverstocks.....Question
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2014, 11:04:49 PM »
Too many times too much is placed on marketing...and unless a true test side by side is done, it is nothing more than hypothetical. I know when I was with one of the manufacturers it was known, as we did not have a hybrid cover, that unless the density of the material changed, there was no difference...i.e. it's marketing.
The question has been asked, if the materials are positioned differently throughout the cover how can there be any consistency? Think about it logically
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amyers2002

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Re: Hybrid Coverstocks.....Question
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2014, 11:22:54 PM »
Quote from: JustRico on June 27, 2014, 11:04:49 PM
Too many times too much is placed on marketing...and unless a true test side by side is done, it is nothing more than hypothetical. I know when I was with one of the manufacturers it was known, as we did not have a hybrid cover, that unless the density of the material changed, there was no difference...i.e. it's marketing.
The question has been asked, if the materials are positioned differently throughout the cover how can there be any consistency? Think about it logically

I don't believe that bits of solid and pearl cover stocks are mixed together for a hybrid. Is it possible that two different formulations are mixed and then pored to create something different? Or as was suggested before is it only surface and all three are exactly the same? I don't know the answer to that.
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TheGom

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Re: Hybrid Coverstocks.....Question
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2014, 11:59:50 PM »
Quote from: billdozer on June 27, 2014, 08:33:45 PM
I always think about that...ball to ball.  I would say we are thinking too much!

Was never over thinking it, just was curious plain and simple.
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Track_Fanatic

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Re: Hybrid Coverstocks.....Question
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2014, 07:08:42 AM »
Would a helix quantum be considered the 1st hybrid?  I mean really, how were they able to get the ball to cure as well as they did since the big track area was reactive resin and the the other part urethane? 
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charlest

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Re: Hybrid Coverstocks.....Question
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2014, 09:06:46 AM »
Quote from: Track_Fanatic on June 28, 2014, 07:08:42 AM
Would a helix quantum be considered the 1st hybrid?  I mean really, how were they able to get the ball to cure as well as they did since the big track area was reactive resin and the the other part urethane? 

I think the band was pearl urethane and the balance resin. Still it was hard to make and probably to cure properly.
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kidlost2000

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Re: Hybrid Coverstocks.....Question
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2014, 12:54:25 PM »
After doing some looking I can do the project for $140.

That would allow me to buy two Brunswick Karmas. The Blue/Green Pearl, and the Blue/Black solid. Both have 3-4" pins and 2.3 to 2.5 top weight.

From there both balls would be drilled identically. Both balls would then be resurfaced to 500/1000/2000 and taken to the lanes for side by side on lane comparisons out the gate on video.

It is as accurate as I can do it without a throw bot. Anyone want to put money towards it I can start a quick collection. Hand full of people at $10-20 would be all it takes.

I looked into the online funding sites but they do not accept paypal, they want you to use "their" money sites for their fees.


And an update, I can using paypal.

https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=9GDXR6JKLYDPL

« Last Edit: June 28, 2014, 01:02:16 PM by kidlost2000 »
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…… you can't  add a physics term to a bowling term and expect it to mean something.

charlest

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Re: Hybrid Coverstocks.....Question
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2014, 02:51:40 PM »
Quote from: kidlost2000 on June 28, 2014, 12:54:25 PM
After doing some looking I can do the project for $140.

That would allow me to buy two Brunswick Karmas. The Blue/Green Pearl, and the Blue/Black solid. Both have 3-4" pins and 2.3 to 2.5 top weight.

From there both balls would be drilled identically. Both balls would then be resurfaced to 500/1000/2000 and taken to the lanes for side by side on lane comparisons out the gate on video.

It is as accurate as I can do it without a throw bot. Anyone want to put money towards it I can start a quick collection. Hand full of people at $10-20 would be all it takes.

I looked into the online funding sites but they do not accept paypal, they want you to use "their" money sites for their fees.


And an update, I can using paypal.

https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=9GDXR6JKLYDPL



But since you are or seem to be rev and ball speed matched, wouldn't you also need a tester who is speed dominant and then one who is rev dominant to do a test whose results cannot be disputed???
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JustRico

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Re: Hybrid Coverstocks.....Question
« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2014, 02:54:57 PM »
The variables that can be fabricated or added only skew the results...bowling is not a perfect world nor will results ever be...they will always be left to perception as well as pre-conceived notions...as well as simplicity will never fly.
Bowling ball technology has NOT changed or gotten better since 1997...manufacturing has but not much else
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kidlost2000

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Re: Hybrid Coverstocks.....Question
« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2014, 03:20:56 PM »
But since you are or seem to be rev and ball speed matched, wouldn't you also need a tester who is speed dominant and then one who is rev dominant to do a test whose results cannot be disputed???



You could try a lot of different things to see what the results are for each no doubt.

I only give the simple assumption that throwing each over a series of shots if there is such a true difference should easily be seen.

Nothing more nothing less. Not saying it is perfect, but if marketing is correct then shouldn't we see the obvious?

The variables that can be fabricated or added only skew the results...bowling is not a perfect world nor will results ever be...they will always be left to perception as well as pre-conceived notions...as well as simplicity will never fly.
Bowling ball technology has NOT changed or gotten better since 1997...manufacturing has but not much else



I start believing more and more how little things have changed when so often asking about a coverstock from Mo and he advises it is a PK18 base with additive used on so much of the Morich equipment. What I assume would be the Activator coverstock is likely strongly PK18 based.

Yes the asymmetric cores from the early 2000s seems to be where cores peaked with the extremely high int diff before backing down to what most are today. I think covers are in the same boat as well. So now it is a matter of pretty colors and catchy logos. Which I am ok with lol.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2014, 03:34:55 PM by kidlost2000 »
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…… you can't  add a physics term to a bowling term and expect it to mean something.

JustRico

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Re: Hybrid Coverstocks.....Question
« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2014, 03:25:32 PM »
My comment was directed towards the average consumer and staffer to make more out of a product than factual...new is the hype not the true reaction...you tend to see what you want if allowed (: most do not take discernible friction into account in motion or reaction
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kidlost2000

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Re: Hybrid Coverstocks.....Question
« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2014, 03:35:51 PM »
Mine was a two part reply i was unable to get quotes inserted on, but modified to make more sense lol.
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…… you can't  add a physics term to a bowling term and expect it to mean something.
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