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Author Topic: 2 inch pin to pap  (Read 6645 times)

bowlingdude01

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2 inch pin to pap
« on: September 12, 2021, 05:54:47 AM »
i was wondering if i were to use a 2 inch pin to pap would i be able to mimic urethane

thanks in advance

 

Jesse James

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Re: 2 inch pin to pap
« Reply #16 on: September 15, 2021, 01:34:25 PM »
Urethane definitely has its place. I wouldn't throw urethane in league, but I have definitely thrown it at tournaments.

I tend to use it for specific conditions, such as when there is an extremely cliffed shot and I'm getting over/under like crazy....then that's the time to throw urethane to blend the shot.

Or if I go to a tournament and they put out a shot with no reverse buff, then I'm throwing urethane. But in general, urethane locks you into only playing the outside of the lanes from the 1-10 board depending on the amount of traffic.

These newer balls are urethane blends and generally much stronger than old conventional urethane pieces. If you are extremely rev dominant then I can understand the appeal, however for the most part you don't have a use for it.

The PBA pros get away with throwing urethane because they bowl on much lighter and flatter conditions than most house shots present.

The short pin is the way to go in my opinion.
Some days you're the bug....some days you're the windshield...that's bowling!

bowler100

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Re: 2 inch pin to pap
« Reply #17 on: September 15, 2021, 03:39:32 PM »
Urethane definitely has its place. I wouldn't throw urethane in league, but I have definitely thrown it at tournaments.

I tend to use it for specific conditions, such as when there is an extremely cliffed shot and I'm getting over/under like crazy....then that's the time to throw urethane to blend the shot.

Or if I go to a tournament and they put out a shot with no reverse buff, then I'm throwing urethane. But in general, urethane locks you into only playing the outside of the lanes from the 1-10 board depending on the amount of traffic.

These newer balls are urethane blends and generally much stronger than old conventional urethane pieces. If you are extremely rev dominant then I can understand the appeal, however for the most part you don't have a use for it.

The PBA pros get away with throwing urethane because they bowl on much lighter and flatter conditions than most house shots present.

The short pin is the way to go in my opinion.
The PBA pros absolutely do not bowl on "much lighter" conditions. In fact, some of the conditions where they throw urethane is around 30 ml of oil. 

avabob

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Re: 2 inch pin to pap
« Reply #18 on: September 15, 2021, 09:47:41 PM »
For the original question a 2 inch pin can be a great layout for some tournament patterns.  However the shell is still a bigger factor.  A 2 inch pin on mon urethane wont give you what you are looking for with urethane. 

dizzyfugu

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Re: 2 inch pin to pap
« Reply #19 on: September 16, 2021, 03:44:52 AM »
A short pin-to-PAP distance basically creates a (very) early rolling ball, almost killing its break point. While the reaction shape might superficially look like a urethane shell's, the ball dynamics are very different.
It's a very special layout, IMHO useful on lanes with good head oil (it tends to burn up easily!) and spotty back ends (where urethane is not really useful!), when you need control and not a huge, flippy reaction with a sudden change of direction. You can still make such a ball hook, thoiugh, through release changes.

I have a vintage Particle Power Groove, because of its high RG and rel. strong RG differential, drilled up this way and polished for use on medium to lightly oiled, spotty lanes. This ball fills a narrow niche in my league/tournament bag, it is VERY special, and not a urethane alternative.
DizzyFugu ~ Reporting from Germany

avabob

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Re: 2 inch pin to pap
« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2021, 12:14:35 PM »
Very good analysis dizzy.  I made s lot of money in a couple of tournaments years ago with a 2x2 layout.  However I very seldom saw conditions where the layout was useful. In addition that layout worked better when I used an axis hole which would not be allowed today. 

ignitebowling

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Re: 2 inch pin to pap
« Reply #21 on: September 17, 2021, 11:59:08 AM »
My ATF ball with a 2" pin and a weight hole, which I hate are no longer allowed, in a short video along with a 5" pin Hammer Rebel for comparison. Video is on a fresh house condition.

The last shot is an overlay of throwing the two on the same line where the 5" pin goes through the face and the 2" pin strikes. There was a time where the back ends on our house shot were so much the 2" pin ball was the go to for the first game to game and a half i then it was move left and open it up with the 5" pin.

On short patterns is where the 2" pin option for me looks so much better. Especially with how much volume some of the short patterns have up front. The urethane clears the heads too much and never recovers with my rev rate (400rpms). The 2" pin option is strong enough to pickup some in the fronts amd still recover on the friction it sees down lane. When trying to play the same line on a short pattern with a 4.5" to 5" pin ball it reads the friction way too much way too soon and goes left with no hope.


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bowlingdude01

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Re: 2 inch pin to pap
« Reply #22 on: September 17, 2021, 12:55:43 PM »
yeah i am going to go with the 2 in pin to pap just got to talk to my pso and see what he thinks what ball we should do it with thanks everyone

TWOHAND834

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Re: 2 inch pin to pap
« Reply #23 on: September 17, 2021, 01:23:00 PM »
yeah i am going to go with the 2 in pin to pap just got to talk to my pso and see what he thinks what ball we should do it with thanks everyone


If what you say is true regarding the lanes being drier than normal, you will need to stay low end to have a cover weak enough to still give you some push.  I would do something like a Tropical Surge and do a 80 x 2 x 45.  But if you have pretty good ball speed (18+ mph), you could go the next step up to something like a Beast, Hustle, or Electrify.
Steven Vance
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Former Classic Products Assistant Manager

bowlingdude01

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Re: 2 inch pin to pap
« Reply #24 on: September 17, 2021, 01:56:48 PM »
thanks twohand834 yeah they are drier at least till fall hits around here then they will play like they put some more oil out and it also does not help that almost every team my team bowls against play the same area and i try not to play too far right but they get toasty fast and will look into beast don't know what my ball speed is but my pso has known me a long time so i will talk to him and see what he thinks thanks again

scotts33

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Re: 2 inch pin to pap
« Reply #25 on: September 17, 2021, 07:48:46 PM »
I find the complete opposite of most that have posted.  My stats. are in profile.  For me if I don't use enough ball and layout a 2" to 2.5" pin to PAP I have to go ultra straight.  When I try and bend it/swing it with my stats.  It hits flat or not enough drive to carry back row even on light volume and shine.  IMO for average house hacks that understand the term skid, hook, roll 2" pins are OK on a bigger ball, entry level unless you are dead straight down and in forget it. 
Scott

avabob

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Re: 2 inch pin to pap
« Reply #26 on: September 17, 2021, 09:00:45 PM »
Purpose of the 2 in pin is so I can play straighter and not have to swing it a bunch.  Not designed to open up the lane
« Last Edit: September 17, 2021, 09:11:54 PM by avabob »

scotts33

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Re: 2 inch pin to pap
« Reply #27 on: September 17, 2021, 09:29:44 PM »
Purpose of the 2 in pin is so I can play straighter and not have to swing it a bunch.  Not designed to open up the lane

For bowlers that are used to swinging it even slightly that mindset is ingrained.  All I am saying is forget that unless you use a bigger ball then you might swing it a couple of boards but you'll be straighter by in large.  That's all said so bowlers understand this most do not IMO. 
Scott

Dakota

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Re: 2 inch pin to pap
« Reply #28 on: September 21, 2021, 07:16:19 AM »
Hi Bowlingdude01 - My question is why do you think you want a Urethane ball?  I have several, but rarely use them.  I bowled the US Open in El Paso which was a sport short pattern.  I talked with the local PSO's and bought a Black Widow, drilled 30 x 3 x 55 = 85 Dual Angle.  As an experiment I have used it a few times in league.  If you are looking for a ball that hooks less I would suggest a medium level RG Ball, 2.5, solid, with a Dual Angle layout around 70 x 5 x 75 = 145.  This ball will stay in front of you and hit the pocket with authority!  Gold Level Coach ABE Denny O'Neill       

bowlingdude01

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Re: 2 inch pin to pap
« Reply #29 on: September 21, 2021, 08:26:57 AM »
Hi Bowlingdude01 - My question is why do you think you want a Urethane ball?  I have several, but rarely use them.  I bowled the US Open in El Paso which was a sport short pattern.  I talked with the local PSO's and bought a Black Widow, drilled 30 x 3 x 55 = 85 Dual Angle.  As an experiment I have used it a few times in league.  If you are looking for a ball that hooks less I would suggest a medium level RG Ball, 2.5, solid, with a Dual Angle layout around 70 x 5 x 75 = 145.  This ball will stay in front of you and hit the pocket with authority!  Gold Level Coach ABE Denny O'Neill       
Dakota the real reason is that i have never thrown urethane and i was thinking about bowling a sport shot league this summer and i also wanted urethane because the shot at my center for the time being till it gets colder and drier where i live is that the shot is playing dryer and i was wanted to know if that was a good option i now know that i will being getting something that is about the same weakness as my after dark pearl and more then likely i will try a 2 inch pin to pap or what ever my pso thinks we should put on it like i said though i am going to talk pso when he gets back from his vacay

JazlarVonSteich

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Re: 2 inch pin to pap
« Reply #30 on: September 21, 2021, 10:42:14 AM »
Unless it's something like a Mix, urethane is not for dry lanes. Urethane reads friction early and hooks less on the back end. Using it on dry is a recipe for disaster. You're likely going to be forced deeper and leave a ton of 10 pins, 8-10s, etc. (assuming you're right handed). Urethane is best suited for short-medium (flatter) patterns with medium-heavy volumes. Also can be used on some longer patterns if you have the hand for it.