win a ball from Bowling.com
« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 3 4

Author Topic: Ball Flaring Backwards????  (Read 11436 times)

Kgoff

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 7
Ball Flaring Backwards????
« on: February 09, 2009, 04:32:37 AM »
Drilled up a Max Zone yesterday and the ball is flaring backwards.  Initial track position looks like any other ball I throw. Can't figure out why.
Ball is drilled 5.5 inches pin under with a hole in the thumb quadrant center of grip through cg at 6 inches. Any help would be appreciated.  Thanks
Logged

 

johns811

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1095
Re: Ball Flaring Backwards????
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2009, 12:34:11 PM »
I have a power groove that does that. Actually some nice folks from Brunswick saw my post on this site and sent me a new ball.
Logged

Kgoff

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 7
Re: Ball Flaring Backwards????
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2009, 12:34:24 PM »
Specs are:  rev rate 325 range, axis is 4.5 over .5 up.   thanks
Logged

J_w73

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2540
Re: Ball Flaring Backwards????
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2009, 01:28:13 PM »
Do you have a pic of the ball?  How close is the pin to the track?
What does your proshop say?  I would have them weigh it and see where the static weights are.  I have heard some funny stuff now that the balls are coming out of Mexico.  The marked cg may have not been marked correctly.
--------------------
16-17 mph
350 rpm
PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8 up
High Game 300 x 3
High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205
PBA Xperience ave 180
years bowling 22

Edited on 2/9/2009 2:32 PM
Logged
375 RPM, 17-18 MPH, 45+ DEG AXIS ROTATION, 17 DEG TILT

wpzone

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 303
Re: Ball Flaring Backwards????
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2009, 04:09:05 PM »
I had a Gravity Shift that did that.  Storm replaced it.
Logged

JustRico

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2652
Re: Ball Flaring Backwards????
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2009, 05:19:12 PM »
I would contact someone at Brunswick and let them know. You may have a bad Maxxx Zone.
--------------------
Formerly BrunsRico
Logged
Co-author of BowlTec's END GAMES ~ A Bowler's COMPLETE Guide to Bowling; Head Games ~ the MENTAL approach to bowling (and sports) & (r)eVolve
...where knowledge creates striking results...
BowlTEc on facebook...www.iBowlTec.com

TWOHAND834

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4333
Re: Ball Flaring Backwards????
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2009, 05:22:34 PM »
I agree with Ric.  But, I would take it to your shop first and have them measure the statics.  Usually, you will not flare backwards unless you put the pin beyond 6.5 inches from PAP.
--------------------
Steven Vance
Pro Shop Operator
Striking Results Pro Shop
Red Carpet Lanes
Duluth (NE Atlanta), Georgia

If anyone out there is worried about the scores being too high, try duckpin!!
Logged
Steven Vance
Former Pro Shop Operator
Former Classic Products Assistant Manager

Brian362

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 587
Re: Ball Flaring Backwards????
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2009, 05:43:43 PM »
mis-marked cg?
Logged
Bowl To Win!!!

JustRico

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2652
Re: Ball Flaring Backwards????
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2009, 05:47:33 PM »
Mis marked pin.

Actually every bowler is different, as far as what point a ball will back flare. 0 is different for every bowler. For some it could 6" and others the ball merely gets to 0 flare.

Anyways, statics or CG are irrelevant as far as the flare goes or the amount.
--------------------
Formerly BrunsRico
Logged
Co-author of BowlTec's END GAMES ~ A Bowler's COMPLETE Guide to Bowling; Head Games ~ the MENTAL approach to bowling (and sports) & (r)eVolve
...where knowledge creates striking results...
BowlTEc on facebook...www.iBowlTec.com

JohnP

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5819
Re: Ball Flaring Backwards????
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2009, 08:07:09 PM »
JustRico -- How can the pin be mismarked?  As I understand the pin is located where the pin in the ball mold holds the core in place.  Then the hole that is left in the ball is filled, leaving the dot on the ball that we call the pin.  Could the core have been installed upside down?  --  JohnP
Logged

J_w73

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2540
Re: Ball Flaring Backwards????
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2009, 09:21:55 PM »
quote:
JustRico -- How can the pin be mismarked?  As I understand the pin is located where the pin in the ball mold holds the core in place.  Then the hole that is left in the ball is filled, leaving the dot on the ball that we call the pin.  Could the core have been installed upside down?  --  JohnP


I was thinking the same thing that the core was upside down.. but anything can happen.. There are a couple of holes in the core from what I have seen during manufacturing .. one is the pin/top of the core other is in the side to hold it in the mold..
or they mismarked the cg and the ball really has ton of negative weight.

--------------------
16-17 mph
350 rpm
PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8 up
High Game 300 x 3
High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205
PBA Xperience ave 180
years bowling 22
Logged
375 RPM, 17-18 MPH, 45+ DEG AXIS ROTATION, 17 DEG TILT

JustRico

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2652
Re: Ball Flaring Backwards????
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2009, 09:35:06 PM »
For the last time...CG IS IRRELEVANT. STATIC WEIGHTS will NOT MAKE A BALL FLARE BACKWARDS.

The core is placed in the mold and there is a stem that holds it in the mold. The stem is removed after demolding. The stem would be where the pin is placed, after the cover is poured.

When the core is cut down on a lathe. The core is not always pinned to the pin. This happens very rarely but can happen. This will cause the ball to back flare or invert.

Ball reaction is not predicated by CG placement or static weights. Surface dictates how quickly the ball responds to oil and friction, as well as how quickly it slows down. Pin to PAP creates flare.

CG placement predicates the necessity of a weight hole, in regards to current USBC regulations on static weight.
--------------------
Formerly BrunsRico

Edited on 2/9/2009 10:39 PM
Logged
Co-author of BowlTec's END GAMES ~ A Bowler's COMPLETE Guide to Bowling; Head Games ~ the MENTAL approach to bowling (and sports) & (r)eVolve
...where knowledge creates striking results...
BowlTEc on facebook...www.iBowlTec.com

J_w73

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2540
Re: Ball Flaring Backwards????
« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2009, 09:48:17 PM »
quote:
For the last time...CG IS IRRELEVANT. STATIC WEIGHTS will NOT MAKE A BALL FLARE BACKWARDS.

The core is placed in the mold and there is a stem that holds it in the mold. The stem is removed after demolding. The stem would be where the pin is placed, after the cover is poured.

When the core is cut down on a lathe. The core is not always pinned to the pin. This happens very rarely but can happen. This will cause the ball to back flare or invert.

Ball reaction is not predicated by CG placement or static weights. Surface dictates how quickly the ball responds to oil and friction, as well as how quickly it slows down. Pin to PAP creates flare.

CG placement predicates the necessity of a weight hole, in regards to current USBC regulations on static weight.
--------------------
Formerly BrunsRico

Edited on 2/9/2009 10:39 PM


please explain how what you are saying makes the ball backflare?
--------------------
16-17 mph
350 rpm
PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8 up
High Game 300 x 3
High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205
PBA Xperience ave 180
years bowling 22
Logged
375 RPM, 17-18 MPH, 45+ DEG AXIS ROTATION, 17 DEG TILT

JustRico

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2652
Re: Ball Flaring Backwards????
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2009, 09:54:09 PM »
When the pin, which dictates where the top of the core or mass is located, is placed either too close or past a positive stable point in a bowling ball, back flaring or an inverted track can occur. Stable points are the PAP and the track. If you place a pin too close to the track, it is pulled towards the track, thus inverting the flares or pulling the flares onto the grip.
If you place a pin too close to the PAP or behind it, it can accomplish a similar response.
Safe zones are within a half an inch, depending on the core differential or strength, of the track as well as the PAP. This also needs to be considered when placing a pin on the perceived VAL.
--------------------
Formerly BrunsRico
Logged
Co-author of BowlTec's END GAMES ~ A Bowler's COMPLETE Guide to Bowling; Head Games ~ the MENTAL approach to bowling (and sports) & (r)eVolve
...where knowledge creates striking results...
BowlTEc on facebook...www.iBowlTec.com

J_w73

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2540
Re: Ball Flaring Backwards????
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2009, 10:11:35 PM »
ok.. thanks for the explanation.. so more than likely  the core slipped and the pin is not marking the top of the core..
--------------------
16-17 mph
350 rpm
PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8 up
High Game 300 x 3
High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205
PBA Xperience ave 180
years bowling 22
Logged
375 RPM, 17-18 MPH, 45+ DEG AXIS ROTATION, 17 DEG TILT
Pages: [1] 2 3 4
« previous next »