Author Topic: Why????? (Read 17103 times)

Doug Sterner · « **on:** February 10, 2010, 10:46:22 AM »

Now I am not professing to be a genius here or even a really smart guy but I have a serious question for both the pro shop guys out here and also the bowlers...

For the Pro Shop Guys....2 questions
1. When a "league hack" comes into your shop and says they want a Mutant Cell or Invasion to bowl on the house shot, why do you sell them the ball instead of getting them to get into a less aggressive ball that they will fare better with?

2. Why, even after selling them the Mutant Cell or Virtual Gravity or similar, do you drill the ball up max stacked leverage?

Don't we realize that when we do #1 and combine it with #2 that there is a 90% chance that the ball isn't going to work? Honestly...look at the heavy hooking balls that we see for sale on this site....90% are drilled stacked with the pin in the ballpark of 3-4" off the PAP...why?

Now for the customers...very simple...

Why don't you all trust your pro shop guy to put you in the ball you NEED instead of the ball you THINK YOU WANT? Then why do you tell him to "drill it to hook!" ?

I am simply baffled at the number of heavy hooking balls I see for sale here drilled for max hook and usually they are dulled up to look like 220 grit!

Why???

Help me out here guys!!!!
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Doug Sterner
Doug''s Pro Shop
Owego, NY
http://dougsproshop@aol.com
www.dougsproshop.net
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Locke · « **Reply #1 on:** February 10, 2010, 06:49:12 PM »

Hook=good

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They call me the thread killer...

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polaris1050 · « **Reply #2 on:** February 10, 2010, 06:56:55 PM »

There are 5 VG's and 6 Jigsaws in my Thursday league, and I outhook every one of them with my Awakening. They can't understand how a weaker pearl ball is moving so much and don't comprehend that their ball is burning up in the heads.

Doug Sterner · « **Reply #3 on:** February 10, 2010, 07:00:19 PM »

Locke,

while "hook = good" what does roll out =???

Mean seriously.....Percy Pussknuckler buys a max stack Storm Invasion drilled 4x4 box finish and throws the ball up the 10 board...guess what happens? The ball starts up then loses axis rotation and hits like a pillow.

Then guess what? "This ball is a POS...it doesn''t hook more than my yellow dot. You sold me a $200 10 pin ball."

polaris...I totally agree. I just want to know why we as consumers do this and why the pro shop guys cave into the customer?
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Doug Sterner
Doug''s Pro Shop
Owego, NY
http://dougsproshop@aol.com
www.dougsproshop.net
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Edited on 2/10/2010 8:02 PM

DanH78 · « **Reply #4 on:** February 10, 2010, 07:06:44 PM »

I'm not a pro shop guy, but I think I can answer the first two questions.

Because the customer is always right. I've seen it happen plenty of times, THB comes in, asks for latest hooking ball.
THB: I want HOOK MONSTER
Pro Shop: Ya know, I really think this medium ball would be better
THB: Nope, I want HOOK MONSTER

If the pro shop guy doesn't sell it, THB will just go down the street to the other pro shop that will.

As far as the bowlers go...well, I don't know. If you figure it out, let me know. A couple weeks ago, a guy on my team asked me about a new ball. I gave him 3-4 choices. All were medium/pearls. A guy that works in the pro shop was throwing a Jigsaw Corner that nite and my team mate asked me about it. I said it was too aggressive for what he wanted. The pro shop guy said it was too aggressive for what he wanted. Well the pro shop proceeded to shoot 700 (Because he's freakin good) so of course my team mate had to go out and by a Jigsaw Corner. Next week he barely broke 500 (He averages 208). I've stopped trying with some people, they refuse to understand that a bowling ball only has so much energy, and sometimes, the reason it's not hooking isn't because they need a stronger ball, but because the ball is too strong and is burned up by 20 feet.
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It IS next year!

charlest · « **Reply #5 on:** February 10, 2010, 07:09:21 PM »

Doug,

IMHO
1. because most bowlers think they know better than the pro shop.
1A. There are too many "PRO" shops out there who don''t know what they are doing and too many bowlers have had problems with their recommendations. Doug, most people are not like you or many of the good drillers who have posted here.

2. Because that is the only drilling they know. They think that maxing out the ball''s total possible reaction is the way to drill balls because they''re still stuck in the 1970s.

3. They see bowlers using these expensive balls on TV and in other leagues, in other houses and have no idea that the oil pattern and the way people bowl and the way a ball is drilled can affect the ball''s usage.

4. Have you ever tried to talk a bowler out a ball and lost a sale? (I know you have.) Good pro shops, with honest drillers can only do so much. I know my driller has tried to talk people to "down" a ball. Sometimes they listen. Sometimes they think they know better. (Sometimes I try, if only when they seem doubtful about what he told them.) "The customer is always right."

It all comes down to "Ignorance is Bliss."
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."

Edited on 2/10/2010 8:10 PM

Doug Sterner · « **Reply #6 on:** February 10, 2010, 07:14:46 PM »

Well Dan you are probably correct but you know what? I had a couple of guys come in and tell me they wanted Bounty Hunter solids because they wanted a ball they could "hook the lane with." I told them $210 drilled and then asked what was wrong with a ball like the Diamondback, Hyroad or Clutch?

They told me they heard the BH is the heaviest hooking ball in the market right now so that means it hooks the most right?

I don't stock anything in the shop that's over $150 drilled. Especially with the tight economic times we are seeing right now, why do the bowlers want to spend that extra $50 on a ball that will just give them more frustration?

IMO I don't see the need for a ball that hooks more than a Diamondback or Furious. Do we need more backend than a Fast or a Reign?

I mean seriously folks....
--------------------
Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY
http://dougsproshop@aol.com
www.dougsproshop.net
Lane 1 Buzzsaw...The Official Power Tool Of Bowling
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Doug Sterner · « **Reply #7 on:** February 10, 2010, 07:18:49 PM »

Something just hit me as I read charlest's response....

this is exactly what Storm and Turbo have teamed up to try and combat. Their Try It Before You Buy It program gives the bowler the chance to try the ball before they buy one.

I think I am going to try and get a similar program to this going over the summer.

--------------------
Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY
http://dougsproshop@aol.com
www.dougsproshop.net
Lane 1 Buzzsaw...The Official Power Tool Of Bowling
For Real Time Interactive Bowling Conversation:
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Goof1073 · « **Reply #8 on:** February 10, 2010, 07:25:49 PM »

quote:
4. Have you ever tried to talk a bowler out a ball and lost a sale? (I know you have.) Good pro shops, with honest drillers can only do so much. I know my driller has tried to talk people to "down" a ball. Sometimes they listen. Sometimes they think they know better. (Sometimes I try, if only when they seem doubtful about what he told them.) "The customer is always right."

Bingo!!!

So many times I've seen people come in wanting a particular ball, not because of its reaction...but because it's new and a high end ball.

I also can't tell you how many times I've heard why is my high hook ball being out hooked by a low end pearl. Ugh...

...for me it's about educating customers to help them make better choices for themselves and understanding ball reaction and why the above happens.
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-Chris: DJ's Pro Shop : Auburn, MA

charlest · « **Reply #9 on:** February 10, 2010, 07:32:10 PM »

quote:
quote:
4. Have you ever tried to talk a bowler out a ball and lost a sale? (I know you have.) Good pro shops, with honest drillers can only do so much. I know my driller has tried to talk people to "down" a ball. Sometimes they listen. Sometimes they think they know better. (Sometimes I try, if only when they seem doubtful about what he told them.) "The customer is always right."
Bingo!!!

So many times I''ve seen people come in wanting a particular ball, not because of its reaction...but because it''s new and a high end ball.

I also can''t tell you how many times I''ve heard why is my high hook ball being out hooked by a low end pearl. Ugh...

Them Chris, you have all the ammunition and all the reason in the world to tell them,
"Because, you IDIOT, you didn''t listen to me!!!"
but, you won''t cause you''re too polite, just like Doug. But you want to, don''t you?

quote:

...for me it''s about educating customers to help them make better choices for themselves and understanding ball reaction and why the above happens.
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-Chris: DJ''s Pro Shop : Auburn, MA

The student only learns who wants to learn. Teachers learn that bitter lesson sometime near the end of their first year of teaching children. With adults, sadly, it takes a little longer. Check out my signature block. It''s not there for nothing.

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"None are so blind as those who will not see."

Edited on 2/10/2010 8:32 PM

Mike Austin · « **Reply #10 on:** February 10, 2010, 09:59:55 PM »

1. I don't, or wouldn't. I would try to find out as much about them and where they bowl as possible.

2. Still probably wouldn't.

I sure would explain myself, try to educate them as to why the hook monster might be a dud. Man I sold a butt load of Tropical Storms to people bowling at a known dry house, many to people that went and bought the hook monster somewhere else because I recommended the Trop Storm. Ya know what, I was thrilled, I made more money on Trop Storms than I did on hook monsters! Bring em on!

Dan, charlest, others have said it. People just don't know. Watching ball videos on the internet does not translate to the lane conditions they see. Ultimately, the hack is an adult, and will get what he wants regardless. The tough economic times make it harder to send them on their way without a sale.

Doug, don't worry, you got the right idea/are doing the right thing! Carry on my man!!

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www.strikes4days.blogspot.com

BBU · « **Reply #11 on:** February 10, 2010, 10:08:43 PM »

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
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HammerHead 4 Life

stormed1 · « **Reply #12 on:** February 10, 2010, 11:46:47 PM »

I will tell customers why i think that ball is the wrong ball for what they need or are looking for.If they still insist that is the ball they want i will sell it to them and make a note on their drill xchart that they were advised that the ball will nost likely not work. I make them sign the note so when they come back complaining i csn and do show them what they were told. The same thing applies when they bring in a ball to copy that doesn't fit them.

As far as drilling a ball stacked leverage i would say it's been at least 10 years since i have done a stacked drilling
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Arsenal: Mega Friction,Break Point x 2, Break,Clutch,Maniac,Awakening,Lunatic,Heist Pearl,SX-1,Link,Hype urethane,Global Globe, 14# golden globe

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agroves · « **Reply #13 on:** February 11, 2010, 08:35:03 AM »

Doug, not all house conditions are created equally. We have some very oily house conditions in this area. And, we have some medium conditions with booming backends in this area. In the oily houses, I can use Invasions, Mutant cells, Total Bedlams and the like. In others, I could use those balls if i wanted to play 5th arrow.

The best idea is find out where the individual bowls league.

quote:
1. When a "league hack" comes into your shop and says they want a Mutant Cell or Invasion to bowl on the house shot, why do you sell them the ball instead of getting them to get into a less aggressive ball that they will fare better with?

This is where discussing a purchase and having them throw a few shots is beneficial. You know that.

quote:
2. Why, even after selling them the Mutant Cell or Virtual Gravity or similar, do you drill the ball up max stacked leverage?

Not often.

I just started a monthly newsletter than covers core numbers and coverstocks with recommendations for each style based on speed and rev rate.
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Proshop Operator
North Bowl Bowling Center
www.northbowlspokane.com
ctwings10--"Here's the problem with any retail service - You can't fix stupid."

Sir Bowl-A-Lot · « **Reply #14 on:** February 11, 2010, 08:40:40 AM »

I consider myself a "league hack." Is that a bad thing? Oh well, to answer your question: I typically bowl better with high performance equipment and my game matches-up well with strong drillings. Plain and simple. My comfort zone is power with a ton of speed. Our house has somewhat new ProAnvils and they usually put down a fair amount of oil as their THS. Now don't get me wrong. I have bowled well with mid-priced pieces, but currently only have high-performace equipment in my locker. My .02

Author Topic: Why????? (Read 17103 times)

Doug Sterner

Why?????

Locke

Re: Why?????

polaris1050

Re: Why?????

Doug Sterner

Re: Why?????

DanH78

Re: Why?????

charlest

Re: Why?????

Doug Sterner

Re: Why?????

Doug Sterner

Re: Why?????

Goof1073

Re: Why?????

charlest

Re: Why?????

Mike Austin

Re: Why?????

BBU

Re: Why?????

stormed1

Re: Why?????

agroves

Re: Why?????

Sir Bowl-A-Lot

Re: Why?????