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Author Topic: 100% of 230???  (Read 17602 times)

adiabaticprocesses

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100% of 230???
« on: August 24, 2016, 10:40:05 AM »
I just want to know what you guys/ladies think of the handicap being 100% of 230. I bowl on Tuesday nights. Through hard work and dedication to this sport of bowling, I have increased my average to 230. I am the only person in the league over a 220 average. I am 1 of 2 over 215. The league's average as a whole is only 187. I forgot to mention the league does not play just by team score (handicap score after each game) but also individual team members handicap games. So the team can win up to 4 single points (1 from each team member) and two team points for each individual game, which means up to 18 pts could be scored every night.

Last night, I compared my individual scratch games (178,202, and 278) to how everyone shot and noticed I would not stand a chance even had I thrown average the first two games. There were many handicap games of 250+, 270+, 290+ and a few 310+. To be precise, there were 40 handicap games over 260. So in other words and correct me if I am wrong, if I mess up (not strike) more than 2 times, I do not stand a chance in the league. It sounds like a sandbaggers format to me. Tell me what you guys think.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2016, 11:11:51 AM by adiabaticprocesses »

 

spmcgivern

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Re: 100% of 230???
« Reply #16 on: August 24, 2016, 04:07:18 PM »
My experience has been the league format is independent of attracting or detracting bowlers.  Today's bowling environment includes fewer and fewer lanes vying for leagues.  This means a lot of bowlers might have one night a week where they are available to bowl and they have to bowl in whatever is available at that time.

So instead of affecting the format of the league which requires a large number of people to agree with you by a vote (changing hdcp % or hdcp base), they instead affect the prize fund distribution.  I have seen it in my league.  Perennially, the prize fund committee is comprised of the same people and they are members of teams that are not competitive. 

So what they do is provide prize fund options that distribute the money somewhat evenly.  My league last year provided 3 options where each one had 71% of the prize fund devoted to point money.  The difference of the options was $100, that is all.  They realize they aren't going to win the league, but they will try and recoup as much of the money they put in as possible.

billdozer

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Re: 100% of 230???
« Reply #17 on: August 24, 2016, 05:07:33 PM »
It's a handicap geared league.  Probably why there are no good bowlers in it.

My Wednesday league is 100% of 220 I just deal with it.  I bow that league and 2 other scratch leagues, it doesn't bother me.

I'm decent, competitive, and know how to roll the ball well, it's all I need.
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ignitebowling

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Re: 100% of 230???
« Reply #18 on: August 24, 2016, 05:54:05 PM »
90% of the highest average or just above is what you want to look at for any type of handicap event.
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SVstar34

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Re: 100% of 230???
« Reply #19 on: August 24, 2016, 06:19:58 PM »
90% of the highest average or just above is what you want to look at for any type of handicap event.

Our men's league uses 90% of 235. Generally we don't have anyone over 230 as carry sucks at that house. Highest averages end up being in the 215-225 range except for a couple seasons that had 230

bcw1969

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Re: 100% of 230???
« Reply #20 on: August 24, 2016, 07:19:14 PM »
The thing that amazes me is that people will enter the handicap division in tournaments or handicap leagues, and then will get upset because some bowlers actually have handicap.....Hello????????

Back in 1990 I bowled in a summer mixed league and they used negative handicap. I started that league with a 677 series or close to it , so the 2nd week of bowling I had a -26 handicap or there abouts , unfortunately I didn't raise my average at any point during that summer season, and the negative handicap ended up killing me.

Brad

Juggernaut

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Re: 100% of 230???
« Reply #21 on: August 24, 2016, 08:02:23 PM »
 Who here started bowling because they could make money at it?

 Me, I started bowling because it was fun. NOT because it was a lucrative activity, but simply for the fun of it. It was never about the money, it was always about the fun and personal challenge.

Hell, we used to bowl for trophies, had a banquet for the entire league at the end, and everybody was happy with getting their dinner paid for.

 Back then, if you wanted to make money at it, you either bowled tournaments, or you bowled "pot" games (I believe some called it "action"). If you wanted to make a living at it, you turned professional where the real money was.

 MONEY. That has done more to kill bowling than anything else. When the "average" league bowlers focus changed from having fun at a social outing, to futilely donating money to a useless cause and getting nothing in return, the situation we are in today became inevitable.

 STOP MAKING AN ACTIVITY DESIGNED TO BE FUN INTO SOMETHING ELSE!

 Turning bowling league into a financial thing is the worst thing that ever happened.

 Forget the money, forget the handicap, and forget all the other bull***t too, just go bowling and try to remember why you started in the first place.

 BECAUSE IT'S FREAKING FUN!
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BallReviews-Removed0385

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Re: 100% of 230???
« Reply #22 on: August 24, 2016, 08:39:16 PM »
Amen, Juggernaut!

I've had my butt kicked by the high handicap bowler so many times.  It's okay.  He needs to win some too.  It doesn't upset me anymore as long as I rolled the ball reasonably well (and if I didn't then it was my fault anyway).

I've also beaten some very good bowlers over the years because the pattern was forgiving enough to give me a chance against them.  On the tough/flat patterns the better bowler will almost always win though.

I have always believed that the lower average bowler will likely bowl close to that average most of the time.  He may throw a 240 against me game 1 but he'll likely bowl a 160 game 3.  (Perhaps the same line that carried everything game 1 was now leaving the 10 pin and my opponent missed three of those...)  It doesn't matter because he has "earned" that lower average somehow, and so I try not to get wrapped up in what he's doing. 

When I worry about his score I lose focus in my process and start trying to "make" the ball strike instead of "letting" it strike.  Think back on those great nights when everything went right for you...  Were you relaxed?  Probably so.

Handicap or scratch ya gotta find some enjoyment in the game.  Appreciate that you can get away every week for league, when there are many people who can't afford to do even that.  In a moment life can throw you a curve ball and maybe bowling is taken away from you.  If that happens you'll want to have great memories of league nights and friendships, etc.   Instead of regret that all that mattered was your score.




« Last Edit: August 24, 2016, 09:23:08 PM by notclay »

JOE FALCO

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Re: 100% of 230???
« Reply #23 on: August 24, 2016, 08:51:30 PM »
Good man Jug!
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scotts33

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Re: 100% of 230???
« Reply #24 on: August 24, 2016, 09:26:47 PM »
Well said Juggernaut.  One of the best posts I have seen on BR.com in years!
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tburky

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Re: 100% of 230???
« Reply #25 on: August 24, 2016, 10:35:14 PM »
I don't advocate what i going to write here. What if everybody got handicap...that is 100% of 300

JOE FALCO

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Re: 100% of 230???
« Reply #26 on: August 24, 2016, 10:43:19 PM »
I don't advocate what i going to write here. What if everybody got handicap...that is 100% of 300
Most pins over average would win!
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MI 2 AZ

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Re: 100% of 230???
« Reply #27 on: August 24, 2016, 10:52:44 PM »
I don't advocate what i going to write here. What if everybody got handicap...that is 100% of 300

Since most leagues set the handicap to be based on either what the highest average is or over it, that is what it ends up as anyways.  (everybody gets handicap)
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AMF300bowler

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Re: 100% of 230???
« Reply #28 on: August 25, 2016, 11:47:39 AM »
This 100% handicap thing is what is wrong with America today. Everyone wants INSTANT gratification. Nobody wants to work at getting better, just make it easier for me to win money. I don't care how you do it. It's just sad.

Handicap was added to the sport to make it more fair for the lower average bowler to win WITHOUT taking away the advantage of the higher average bowler. Back in the day, the ABC recommended 80% handicaps. Now in order to appease the Millennials, the USBC is touting 100% handicap leagues in order to not lose any league bowlers.

What is so wrong with looking at the teams in the league and realizing that, yes, the best teams should win every year. If we want to win, we have to get better. It's the way it used to be.
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adiabaticprocesses

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Re: 100% of 230???
« Reply #29 on: August 25, 2016, 12:51:31 PM »
You are correct Juggernaut but this is the money league. The other 6 nights of the week are fun leagues, family leagues, cruise leagues, youth leagues, senior leagues, and casual mixed leagues.

Back to the Topic at hand. Politics. Politics became involved whenever the league secretary, which btw is a serious sandbagger, realized I was on a team. Apparently, his team finishes within the top 5 every year, and he fears my 230 average will be a factor in him not winning.

Now the issue as hand. 230 is too high for that individual league. There are 180 bowlers in that league that shoot 200-250 every night. If the league moved the handicap to 100% of 230. I must shoot 260-310 to have a chance. Oh wait, the highest I could shoot is 300. So if that 170 bowler shots anything over 240, I loss no matter what. Even more realistically, one bad shot can put me in the 260's but someone with a 170 average can open 2-3 frames then a few spares and some strikes later he rips the 230 average bowler a new one.

Now Comparing a 180 bowler to a 230 bowler in a 100% of 230 league.
I will even put some simple mathematics and ratios to help you understand the advantages a 180 bowler has over a 230 bowler in a 100% of 230 league. As a 230 bowler, I can only shoot 70 games over average. Just one mistake holds me to only being able to shoot nearly 30 of those 70 games (270-299 range). I am going to make at least 2-3 mistakes on any given game allowing my scores to range between 206 and 270. SO when observing the situation realistically, I have 40 games over average that I will shoot regularly.A 180 bowler will shoot between a 180 and 200 regularly which is my 230-250 range. A 180 will throw a few games that range between 200 and 250 on any given night. If the bowler shoots between the 220 and 250 range, his handicap game is in the range of my one mistake game (270-299). Anything above 250, I lose no matter what. So mathematically he has 50 games that I can not beat no matter what. So when comparing a 180 bowlers odds to my 230 odds as a 3 part ratio (# of games a 180 bowler could shoot and beat me not matter what I shoot : # of games a 180 bowler could shoot and beat me If I were to have 1 open or "1 mistake": # of games a 180 bowler could shoot and I have a realistic chance of winning) you get a ratio of 50:30:20.
Let me explain ratios more simply for you. I just placed three different colored beans in a bowl. I placed 5 black beans to describe the games the 180 bowler could shoot and I would lose no matter what. I placed 3 red beans to describe the number of games the 180 could bowl and most likely win if I were to make just one mistake. I also placed 2 white beans to describe the realistic number of games I will shoot on any given night and still have a chance to win. You would have a ratio 5(180 avg wins) : 3(180 avg most likely win): 2(either one can win). MY 230 average odds of winning are 2 vs 10.

I started this post to get more information and view points from other bowlers. I wanted to say thank yall.

txbowler

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Re: 100% of 230???
« Reply #30 on: August 25, 2016, 01:36:47 PM »
A "TRUE" 180 average bowler will only shoot one or two 230+ games a year.

I have bowled many hdcp leagues and there are not a bunch of hdcp games over 300.

In a 36 week season you bowl 108 games.  Even if you say the 180 average bowler shoots 10 games at 230-250, that's still 98 games where you should win.

What you are not considering is what I call "bowling the big dogs" effect.  In one particular league it seemed that every hdcp team bowled well against us.  So finally I asked a few of the team members if they knew why. 

The answers were simple:  We are trying harder against you because we know you are good.  We don't drink beer/alcohol that night, and focus a little harder. 

And the final answer: they took pride is beating us. 

Think about it, it does make sense.