Author Topic: Are we being duped? High Performance Balls (Read 8135 times)

BackToBasics · « **on:** December 20, 2010, 01:49:20 AM »

The Time to Stop thread has me thinking as well as my observations over the past several years regarding surface and high performance balls. Most should know that there have been no real innovations in covers or cores in several years. What they are now doing is basically upping the underlying surface to increase surface friction. Ever notice how 4000 grit balls now seem so dull compared to a few years ago. That's because the manufacturers are sanding balls at 360 or 500 then to 2000. The cover stock from last year now has a more gritty base so of course it will hook more. Brunswick did this years ago when their factory surface was 220 with Rough Buff or 400 with Factory High Gloss. That created much earlier reads than other companies 1500 grit polish. If you took another companies ball and hit it with 400 then polish you lost a tremendous amount of push.

Thus, do we really need high performance balls, especially since there is really no new technology (last year's new tech is this year's low end)? With so many mid-range balls with strong covers and excellent cores, why do we need to spend $160 for a Taboo when a surface tweak and layout can get you similar performance for $80 out of a Midnight Vibe? If you want to see how much performance you can get out of a Freeze, Vibe, Tropical Heat, Anaconda, etc, drill up one and then hit it to the same factory surface as one of the HP balls and see if that performance difference is worth the price. I think people will be surprised at how much a Vibe can hook with 360/500/1000.

Brickguy221 · « **Reply #31 on:** December 21, 2010, 09:17:51 PM »

The best and most consistant ball in my bag is a non HP ball....an Ebonite Gamebreaker.
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"Whenever I feel the urge to exercise I lie down until the feeling passes away."

Brick

JustRico · « **Reply #32 on:** December 21, 2010, 09:18:27 PM »

Sand a Freeze and compare to your 'new' stuff....compare a Storm Trop Heat black/silver to a HyRoad....and tell me how entry level stuff is not up to par.
Golf balls are one thing...bowling balls are another.

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Formerly BrunsRico

TheFreeAgent · « **Reply #33 on:** December 21, 2010, 09:20:17 PM »

Unless you bowl on a sport shot high end balls are pointless been saying that for years.
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Formerly RotoStorm2008

JessN16 · « **Reply #34 on:** December 21, 2010, 10:31:35 PM »

You don't need HP stuff on 90% of shots but when you occasionally get that 10%'er, you'll wish you had something in the bag.

I do find it interesting, for my game at least, that I tend to do my best bowling even on PBA, USBC Blue and high-end Kegel patterns with stuff that is not new, not super-aggressive and not hard to find. My best look on USBC Blue has been with an old Lane #1 Gold Nugget, my best look on PBA Viper with a Lane #1 Tsunami H20 and my best look on the USBC Open pattern was with a da*ned Storm La Nina.

I suspect, in all three cases, it has to do with the fact that I like to go as straight as possible through the front part of the lane, and if you're a big boomer you're looking for something different than I am.

As others have said, though, if you get on a high-volume pattern (PBA Shark) or if you're a speed-dominant league player on THS, the newer stuff isn't just nice to have, it's a necessity.

Jess

dizzyfugu · « **Reply #35 on:** December 22, 2010, 02:39:00 AM »

quote:
I've avoided the HP stuff and increased my scores because I''m not fighting to make the ball work. Or only getting a game and a half in before moving several boards or making ball changes to stay in the same general area.

For the vast majority of bowlers the HP stuff is very rarely needed. It also isn''t needed to be competitive.

Absolutely agree!
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gsback · « **Reply #36 on:** December 22, 2010, 03:02:14 AM »

Had this conversation many times with Jason from VBP....and here's the one thing the majority of everyone here is overlooking.....including those that own and/or manage a pro shop.

First, the customer is correct....and yes this does pertain to the topic!! I've talked to pro shops and most will agree that if a customer wants a high performance ball, they will gladly sell one. I have no respect for a pro shop that sells one to a customer that's not looking for one though....no.

Second, the average bowler is not on this site. If he/she were, the amount of users would surely be in the hundreds of thousands....not in the 30,000s which is where it's at nowadays.

The demand for HP balls is there regardless of whether we need them or not. And I believe that for the bulk of the bowlers, a HP ball is a good thing because it gives the average bowler that basic ability to hook the ball, and possibly to get them hooked into bowling because of that.

Now, for the rest of the 10-15% of the bowlers....maybe a little more, it can easily be debated over whether or not HP balls are needed......but you don't bite the hand that feeds you....and people want them.
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Dan Belcher · « **Reply #37 on:** December 22, 2010, 05:08:40 AM »

Just for the record, I spent the first two games last night in league swinging a sanded Tropical Heat, and then the third game I switched to a lightly polished Gravity Shift and played very tight to the headpin to avoid the ridiculous amounts of friction outside of 10, and that game I ended up with two wobbly 7 pins and the rest strikes that game. There's no way in hell I could have played that tight line in the oil with any of my weaker equipment. That'd be flat 10 city. Not all of us are gifted with the ability to rev up the ball and hook anything on oil.

scotts33 · « **Reply #38 on:** December 22, 2010, 05:36:45 AM »

At a 3-man tourney this weekend I watched a Track Staffer who is a hi-rev wrongsider warm up in the finals with a Solution Power Plus Ex and he left ringing to flat 7's playing an outside line 12 at arrows to 6 on the burn. He went to a 916AT shined took a 4000 ab pad and scuffed it slightly and moved into 17 at arrows to 6. His carry was outstanding. My point being that it's not always ball down to get the look you want/need.
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Scott

Steven · « **Reply #39 on:** December 22, 2010, 08:04:58 AM »

quote:
My point being that it's not always ball down to get the look you want/need.

Good observation. I still don't get this argument that lower end equipment gets the job done just as well. You just don't see it with better bowlers invested heavily in side pots and brackets who have a vested interested in scoring as high as possible.

I bowl league with a former PBA national champion who has a release and effortless revs that 99.999% of all bowlers would give their left arm for. If anyone could get away with lower end equipment as a conscious choice, this guy could.

My last time bowling match point against him he pulls out a Track 920T taken down to 2000 grit Abralon. I asked him about it, and he said he had been getting too much over/under on our extreme second shift wet/dry, and wanted to smooth it out. It turned out very much to be the right choice....

Anyway, I can see on really trashed conditions that going 'ball down' is the right thing to do. I always carry a few mid-range pieces with me just for those situations, but using them is the exception -- not the rule.

BackToBasics · « **Reply #40 on:** December 22, 2010, 07:43:59 PM »

quote:
quote:
My point being that it's not always ball down to get the look you want/need.

Good observation. I still don't get this argument that lower end equipment gets the job done just as well. You just don't see it with better bowlers invested heavily in side pots and brackets who have a vested interested in scoring as high as possible.

I bowl league with a former PBA national champion who has a release and effortless revs that 99.999% of all bowlers would give their left arm for. If anyone could get away with lower end equipment as a conscious choice, this guy could.

My last time bowling match point against him he pulls out a Track 920T taken down to 2000 grit Abralon. I asked him about it, and he said he had been getting too much over/under on our extreme second shift wet/dry, and wanted to smooth it out. It turned out very much to be the right choice....

Anyway, I can see on really trashed conditions that going 'ball down' is the right thing to do. I always carry a few mid-range pieces with me just for those situations, but using them is the exception -- not the rule.

I believe that bowlers, even the extremely good ones, have been fed the kool-aid so much that they believe they need the HP ball. So it becomes a cycle, all they have are HP balls so of course that is what you always see them scoring with. Most won't take the time, or believe necessary to even try mid-range equipment. It probably doesn't occur to them that hey, I can sand this Nomad or even a polished pearl. I know so many "good" bowlers who refuse to sand a pearl or factory polished ball like it is sacrilege. Yet there are so many pearl balls that are coming factory sanded.

You use the example of a bowler switching to a 920T taken down to 2000 grit to tame wet/dry, but that surface management can be done with any ball. What made the 920T so special? I don't know the Track series that well, but a 7 or 5 series sanded could easily have blended the wet/dry.

As a former staffer, I had the ability to throw HP balls as easily as the mid and low range. Once I discovered the surface manipulation that was going on, I tried it on one of the mid-range balls and was amazed at the difference. Not just sanding the polished ball with 2000. Going 360/500 and a quick 2000 by hand easily enabled the mid-range ball to cover the same volume as the HP one.

Steven · « **Reply #41 on:** December 23, 2010, 06:45:41 AM »

quote:
I believe that bowlers, even the extremely good ones, have been fed the kool-aid so much that they believe they need the HP ball. So it becomes a cycle, all they have are HP balls so of course that is what you always see them scoring with. Most won't take the time, or believe necessary to even try mid-range equipment.

LOL... This particular ex-champion has also been a long Pro Shop owner and manufacturer rep. He throws lots of different equipment ranging from middle to high performance. He certainly hasn't OD'ed on equipment kool-aid.

The wonder of bowling is that we can bowl on the same conditions and come up with very different conclusions on what works and what doesn't. Personally, having experimented with lots if mid to high range equipment, I've found I generally get better read and carry with the HP stuff. I'd rather work the cover (higher abralon grits and/or polish) on a HP piece for higher friction conditions than go with a lower end ball. At least as a first option.

Again, it's a matter of experience and personal preference.

dizzyfugu · « **Reply #42 on:** December 23, 2010, 06:56:29 AM »

quote:

First, the customer is correct....and yes this does pertain to the topic!! I've talked to pro shops and most will agree that if a customer wants a high performance ball, they will gladly sell one. I have no respect for a pro shop that sells one to a customer that's not looking for one though....no.

That's true and also "part of the problem". Marketing is a great thing about belief, non-fathomable arguments and self-delusion, and surely pro shops are gladly selling balls with bigger price tags to customers who THINK that a ball with a huge price tag must be better... than what? That's how a market works.
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Dan Belcher · « **Reply #43 on:** December 23, 2010, 07:06:54 AM »

quote:
You use the example of a bowler switching to a 920T taken down to 2000 grit to tame wet/dry, but that surface management can be done with any ball. What made the 920T so special? I don't know the Track series that well, but a 7 or 5 series sanded could easily have blended the wet/dry.

And maybe, just maybe, the sanded 920T evened out the wet/dry better and gave him better carry than a sanded 7 series or 5 series ball because it matched up well with his release and line on the particular conditions he was facing?

The physics involved in bowling are EXTREMELY complex, and there are times when a high performance ball is better suited than a cheaper ball, and there are also times when a low-priced, medium RG pearl with surface is the better option. Is it that hard to understand? YES a lot of bowlers quite frankly don't know any better and just assume more hook is better and higher priced means better. But that doesn't mean the exact opposite is true either! Sometimes I need the extra traction in oil that a Gravity Shift will give me compared to my Tropical Heat to create a more suitable ball motion. Sometimes I need the extra skid and easily length the Tropical Heat will give me. There is no magic bullet here.

trash heap · « **Reply #44 on:** December 23, 2010, 07:38:56 AM »

I know this was a long time ago...but the Ebonite Cat line had a lot good bowling balls in it for a lot of conditions. Even the pros throwing Ebonit those years were having success with that line. Hammermark and I have talked about this over the years.

Sometimes that Mid Line ball works really well for bowlers.

Author Topic: Are we being duped? High Performance Balls (Read 8135 times)

BackToBasics

Are we being duped? High Performance Balls

Brickguy221

Re: Are we being duped? High Performance Balls

JustRico

Re: Are we being duped? High Performance Balls

TheFreeAgent

Re: Are we being duped? High Performance Balls

JessN16

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dizzyfugu

Re: Are we being duped? High Performance Balls

gsback

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Dan Belcher

Re: Are we being duped? High Performance Balls

scotts33

Re: Are we being duped? High Performance Balls

Steven

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BackToBasics

Re: Are we being duped? High Performance Balls

Steven

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dizzyfugu

Re: Are we being duped? High Performance Balls

Dan Belcher

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trash heap

Re: Are we being duped? High Performance Balls