win a ball from Bowling.com

Author Topic: Best way to control scoring?  (Read 5551 times)

novawagonmaster

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4279
Best way to control scoring?
« on: December 13, 2007, 03:33:04 AM »
Lane conditions?
Ball technology (cores/coverstocks)?
Pins?
Gutters/side boards?
Other???

My vote goes to lane conditions.

After being humbled on sport and PBA patterns, it is easy to see that averages can (and do) drop 20-40 pins for most players. While I do not think going to that extreme for most THS leagues is an option, there has to be a happy medium (say 5:1 ratio?).

I realize ball technology has run wild and that has contributed somewhat to scoring. However, I also believe the ball technology has allowed bowlers of differing styles to play on the same conditions. In my minds eye, limiting ball technology would be akin to forcing golfers to use one club. A small guy might tee off with a driver while a big guy could cover the same ground with a 5 wood or even an iron. A stroker and cranker can both play the same pattern with different balls. They just use different lines and different balls. By requiring tougher lane conditions, we would place the emphasis on accuracy and repetition. For those who argue "resin killed bowling", I don't think that's the case. It is not too difficult to score with urethane (or even plastic) on the walled up house shots as long as there are dry boards on the outside.

I also realize that Pandora's Box has been opened. "Wall-babies" will cry the blues if we tighten up the lanes. However, we may regain some of the bowlers who have given up because the sport has become a carry contest.

What are your opinions?
--------------------
Jon (in Ohio)
CHROME WON'T GET YOU HOME!
F.O.S. Proud Saw user...see profile.



Edited on 12/13/2007 4:15 PM

 

sdbowler

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4066
Re: Best way to control scoring?
« Reply #31 on: December 14, 2007, 04:05:38 AM »
I understand you can flatten the pattern out a bit, however most people when setting up the oiler what they will do is either go longer with the pattern or apply more oil. I think a lot are skipping over who this would hurt more and that is the average bowler outthere that bowls just for fun buys a ball here and there and is just happy with that. If there is a flatter pattern or more oil and they have an average drop do you think they will continue to bowl probably not. Do I think the patterns could be changed to help slow down the scores yeah I do BUT we need to keep the bowlers we have already as well as trying to get new ones in. I still think that the ball companies could do something as well to help out.
--------------------
Brunswick
Kyle

star

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 823
Re: Best way to control scoring?
« Reply #32 on: December 14, 2007, 04:38:21 AM »
The ONE real way to cut down scores is to find a way to take the oil out of the equation.

We really need some big company to make an oil-less lane system. When that happens the true spirit of the game will return and so will the integrity of the sport.(I cant believe health and safety havent pushed for this already.)

It could be some sort of overlay system for synthetic or wood with degrees of dificulty built in. Very tough to design I know but wouldnt it improve the game.  

Just my thoughts but it would definatly improve how the game is viewed.
--------------------
Happy go lucky bowler from the UK.
   Did someone say tough luck
 Want to learn to read lanes then visit:-
      www.thebowlingprofessor44.com/
Happy go lucky bowler from the UK.
Specs. 430rpm,18mph off hand. 11-12deg Tilt, 50-60 deg Rotation. PAP 5 1/4 by 3/4 up.
                   R.I.P.
Mo Pinel. The Guru.
Larry Matthews “The Bowling Professor”
Sawbones.
Thong Princess.
Thanks for the FUN times.

revTrex

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1354
Re: Best way to control scoring?
« Reply #33 on: December 14, 2007, 04:41:08 AM »
An idea that has been floated in the past is this:

The PBA, Euro Tour, and top-flight amateur competition (Team USA, etc.) could go to using slightly heavier, harder-carry pins. Put a black diamond on them or something, to make them easily identifiable. Plus, you still have the more difficult patterns found in these tournaments.

Most houses will still put up the lighter, "original" pins, plus whatever lane condition they want (most likely their version of a THS). Entry level bowlers plus those who "just want fun"/"don't want the challenge" can use these.

However, say an aspiring tenpin star kid walks into a house. On the "normal" lanes, he strikes all day, carrying light hits, throwing messengers, etc. So the proprietor walks over to him and says, "hey, kid, why don't you try your hand on what the pros use." And the kid, who thinks this is a great idea, goes over to lanes 1 and 2 (where they have the heavier, black diamond pins set up), and he proceeds to struggle a little more -- he can't always carry the five, or he can't just dig out the corner pins. Thus, he realizes he still has a hell of a lot to learn about the game -- after all, the guys on TV carry, whereas he does not.

In effect, this might right the ship, so to speak. Pins don't change who can get to the pocket like lane conditions might (basically, consider that pins will never shut the left side or the strokers out, whereas a lane condition could) -- they change who can carry. And if you only allow the best to score (i.e., carry) the best, you will have a resurgence of what is known as "the bowling sport."

I forget who originally wrote about this, so I apologize for not mentioning any names or citing anything. But I do know that this was the general point, and that I agreed with it most strongly.

Thoughts?

novawagonmaster

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4279
Re: Best way to control scoring?
« Reply #34 on: December 14, 2007, 05:17:28 AM »
revTrex,

In the end, changing the pins by your definition brings bowling down to a carry contest. Everybody is still hitting the hole due to walled up conditions, but the heavier pins are not as easy to knock around.

Isn't that what we already have? All of our local, county, and state tournaments (as well as weekly league bowling) have turned into carry contests.

If the the only goal is to lower scores, pins would do the trick. That said, bowling would still be a carry contest to determine the winners and losers. There is still no importance placed on accuracy as long as there is a puddle down the middle of the lane. Twist the ball up, and you will prevail.
--------------------
Jon (in Ohio)
CHROME WON'T GET YOU HOME!
F.O.S. Proud Saw user...see profile.

Rev_O

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5060
Re: Best way to control scoring?
« Reply #35 on: December 14, 2007, 05:31:51 AM »
quote:

I also realize that Pandora's Box has been opened. "Wall-babies" will cry the blues if we tighten up the lanes. However, we may regain some of the bowlers who have given up because the sport has become a carry contest.



Jon,

Are you trying to get me to start bowling again? The only way I see myself bowling in the future is if they make the game more of a challenge, not a wall baby carryfest!
--------------------
Rev-O










Fathead

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 86
Re: Best way to control scoring?
« Reply #36 on: December 14, 2007, 05:59:00 AM »
quote:
And, EDUCATE league bowlers on the difference in oil patterns. Many, if not most, have no clue unless they've ever sought that information out.



I would love to see this.  The owner where I bowl will not tell a soul what the condition is.  I know the guy pretty good, still won't tell.  But the house also does not have honor scores on a weekly, or even monthly basis.  About 1 a year, for the whole house.

novawagonmaster

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4279
Re: Best way to control scoring?
« Reply #37 on: December 14, 2007, 06:16:20 AM »
quote:
quote:

I also realize that Pandora's Box has been opened. "Wall-babies" will cry the blues if we tighten up the lanes. However, we may regain some of the bowlers who have given up because the sport has become a carry contest.



Jon,

Are you trying to get me to start bowling again? The only way I see myself bowling in the future is if they make the game more of a challenge, not a wall baby carryfest!
--------------------
Rev-O



In short...YES!
As well as all of the other guys who have quit becuse league bowling has become a joke in most houses.
--------------------
Jon (in Ohio)
CHROME WON'T GET YOU HOME!
F.O.S. Proud Saw user...see profile.

9andaWiggle

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13414
Re: Best way to control scoring?
« Reply #38 on: December 14, 2007, 06:44:30 AM »
We need to take bowling back to its roots.  Wooden bowling balls, wood pins, and no oil on the lanes! That should take care of the scores!

--------------------
9~

The Shepherd has Spoken!
Little Bo Peep has lost her sheep...

I wonder where they went? ;)

JoeBowler

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 583
Re: Best way to control scoring?
« Reply #39 on: December 14, 2007, 07:37:13 AM »
Ban lane conditioner. That will lower scores.

novawagonmaster

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4279
Re: Best way to control scoring?
« Reply #40 on: December 14, 2007, 07:52:27 AM »
quote:
We need to take bowling back to its roots.  Wooden bowling balls, wood pins, and no oil on the lanes! That should take care of the scores!

--------------------
9~

The Shepherd has Spoken!



9~,
On which side of those West Virginia hills do (and your sheep) live?
--------------------
Jon (in Ohio)
CHROME WON'T GET YOU HOME!
F.O.S. Proud Saw user...see profile.


Edited on 12/14/2007 8:52 AM

9andaWiggle

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13414
Re: Best way to control scoring?
« Reply #41 on: December 14, 2007, 08:41:39 AM »
quote:
quote:
We need to take bowling back to its roots.  Wooden bowling balls, wood pins, and no oil on the lanes! That should take care of the scores!

--------------------
9~

The Shepherd has Spoken!



9~,
On which side of those West Virginia hills do (and your sheep) live?
--------------------
Jon (in Ohio)
CHROME WON'T GET YOU HOME!
F.O.S. Proud Saw user...see profile.


Edited on 12/14/2007 8:52 AM


West of them.
--------------------
9~

The Shepherd has Spoken!
Little Bo Peep has lost her sheep...

I wonder where they went? ;)

Rev_O

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5060
Re: Best way to control scoring?
« Reply #42 on: December 14, 2007, 09:06:03 AM »
I agree with Jon, Lane Conditions are the biggest detriment to the game. I know personally, I can very easily make any 220+ league bowler into a 175 average joe with just a simple press of a button or swipe of a mop!
--------------------
Rev-O










shelley

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9655
Re: Best way to control scoring?
« Reply #43 on: December 14, 2007, 09:13:50 AM »
quote:
In effect, this might right the ship, so to speak. Pins don't change who can get to the pocket like lane conditions might (basically, consider that pins will never shut the left side or the strokers out, whereas a lane condition could) -- they change who can carry. And if you only allow the best to score (i.e., carry) the best, you will have a resurgence of what is known as "the bowling sport."


I think that if anything, it will only promote the power game at the expense of the finesse player.  As someone else said, everyone can still get to the pocket due to the walled up shot, but the guy with the muscle knocks the pins over.  Doesn't matter than he can't hit the same spot twice in one game since the oil is feeding his ball to the pocket.  Doesn't matter that the stroker is nailing his target because he's leaving 5s, 8-10s, and weak 10s all night because at 50 years of age, he can't throw it 18mph.

If we're honestly going to complain about the area that power allows the strong players to create, we can't turn around and reward them for throwing it hard.

SH

novawagonmaster

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4279
Re: Best way to control scoring?
« Reply #44 on: December 14, 2007, 09:20:03 AM »
And there is no set-up cost in doing this.
Most centers already have an automated lane dressing machine of some sort. We have already stated that there would be no more oil (total units) required that the center is currently using.

Changing to different pins (or having multiple pin options for different leagues) would add cost (unless centers waited it out until the current pins were ready for replacement).

Changing the rules for balls would have a huge impact on bowlers' wallets to upgrade to the new standards.

As Steve says...in most centers, it's just the push of a button on the lane machine and "voila"...you hit your target, you hit the pocket. You miss your target, you smack the three pin in the face.
--------------------
Jon (in Ohio)
CHROME WON'T GET YOU HOME!
F.O.S. Proud Saw user...see profile.

Badger856

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 562
Re: Best way to control scoring?
« Reply #45 on: December 14, 2007, 09:27:53 AM »
I say leave things alone, we will always have this battle between the sport of bowling.  I think the House should dictate its shot because they are the ones who will hear the screams from league bowlers and could lose buisness.  Instead create more sport leagues or for city/state championships create these types of divisions and give these leagues the recognition.  Let each bowler decide what kind of league and shot they want.