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Author Topic: Best way to control scoring?  (Read 5573 times)

novawagonmaster

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Best way to control scoring?
« on: December 13, 2007, 03:33:04 AM »
Lane conditions?
Ball technology (cores/coverstocks)?
Pins?
Gutters/side boards?
Other???

My vote goes to lane conditions.

After being humbled on sport and PBA patterns, it is easy to see that averages can (and do) drop 20-40 pins for most players. While I do not think going to that extreme for most THS leagues is an option, there has to be a happy medium (say 5:1 ratio?).

I realize ball technology has run wild and that has contributed somewhat to scoring. However, I also believe the ball technology has allowed bowlers of differing styles to play on the same conditions. In my minds eye, limiting ball technology would be akin to forcing golfers to use one club. A small guy might tee off with a driver while a big guy could cover the same ground with a 5 wood or even an iron. A stroker and cranker can both play the same pattern with different balls. They just use different lines and different balls. By requiring tougher lane conditions, we would place the emphasis on accuracy and repetition. For those who argue "resin killed bowling", I don't think that's the case. It is not too difficult to score with urethane (or even plastic) on the walled up house shots as long as there are dry boards on the outside.

I also realize that Pandora's Box has been opened. "Wall-babies" will cry the blues if we tighten up the lanes. However, we may regain some of the bowlers who have given up because the sport has become a carry contest.

What are your opinions?
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Edited on 12/13/2007 4:15 PM

 

baseballfrk8998

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Re: Best way to control scoring?
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2007, 11:42:55 AM »
I haven't been bowling long so I don't know a lot about ball technology or the pins, but I personally feel like lane conditions are the best way to control scoring. Flood the lanes gutter to gutter and lets see who can swing it out to the 5 board and bring it all the way back at 19 mph.

Just my personal opinion.
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novawagonmaster

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Re: Best way to control scoring?
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2007, 11:53:46 AM »
quote:
I haven't been bowling long so I don't know a lot about ball technology or the pins, but I personally feel like lane conditions are the best way to control scoring. Flood the lanes gutter to gutter and lets see who can swing it out to the 5 board and bring it all the way back at 19 mph.

Just my personal opinion.
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Flooding the lanes gutter to gutter is not needed. But lets just say we did that. Flinging the ball to the 5 board at 19 MPH will more than likely get you a score of "zero" (unless your ball was laid down on the 1 board) It is pretty clear you have not experienced the conditions you describe, or you would know that there would not be any swinging going on, and the breakpoint would be much deeper than the 5 board.

PBA patterns expose this pretty well. There is not a flood (high volume) of oil, but the lenth of the Shark pattern makes you move your breakpoint inside to maximize scoring potential. Don't forget...the name of the game is knocking down pins...not covering boards.
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revTrex

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Re: Best way to control scoring?
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2007, 11:57:32 AM »
Do any of you guys have a sense of history?

What did they do to control scoring back in the 70s and 80s?

Lane conditions.

What did they do in the 90s?

Lane conditions.

What do you want?

Lane conditions.

The worst thing that's ever happened to bowling is that back when people were using the soaker balls, etc., bowling decided to INCREASE the amount of oil on the lane, etc. in order to prevent or lower the amount of hook, entry angle, etc. What they should have done is let the lanes hook -- drier lanes hold scoring down, and they wouldn't have created the arms race that is modern bowling ball manufacturing. After all, you wouldn't have needed resin if resin would have simply created too much friction.

In any case, about changing other factors, I am all in favor of changing equipment. In fact, I am radically in favor -- I say let's have a game ball. Yes, I said it -- one ball. Or, if that's too extreme for all the ball companies that would get squeezed out, set specs that must be matched.

Why, you ask? Well, nowawagonmaster kind of pointed it out himself. In his mind, in the golf analogy, the big guy would be able to hit the ball further in golf than the little guy -- but this is only partially true. Rather, it's the guy with better form and skill that can hit the ball further (to some extent, after that, yes, body shape and strength take over). But even if you do give up some "yards" per se, consider that the bowler with better skills should still be able to change hand positions, move on the lane, etc. in order to find an even higher scoring line...

Basically, if you wanted a short answer as to why I think one ball or closely watched specs would do the sport well, it's because it would create an elitism within the sport. Certain bowlers would be better than certain bowlers, on a pure talent basis. So what if certain bowlers "can't" score well? I ask you, in other sports, can a less skilled athlete become better or gain an advantage by changing the equipment? NO! But in bowling, this is how it is -- which is really quite sad.

If bowling is to become respected and grow once again, it needs to make a serious step toward leveling the playing field and letting the true bowlers rise to the top.

Just my .02. After that, my vote goes to changing the pin weight distribution to lower the center of gravity or make them heavier. It has NEVER been hard to hit the pocket in bowling. What was hard in the 1950s and 60s -- and what is easy now -- was carrying pins like the 5, 7, and 10.

Edited on 12/13/2007 12:59 PM

Edited on 12/13/2007 1:04 PM

Edited on 12/13/2007 1:04 PM

baseballfrk8998

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Re: Best way to control scoring?
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2007, 12:01:27 PM »
quote:
Flinging the ball to the 5 board at 19 MPH will more than likely get you a score of "zero" (unless your ball was laid down on the 1 board) It is pretty clear you have not experienced the conditions you describe, or you would know that there would not be any swinging going on, and the breakpoint would be much deeper than the 5 board.



That was the entire point of my post, Lol. I know that that's impossible. That's exactly why I said that. I said "lets see who can swing it out to the 5 board and bring it all the way back at 19 mph." No one can, that was the exact point of my entire post homie. Lol.

But you are right, I haven't faced those conditions.
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novawagonmaster

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Re: Best way to control scoring?
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2007, 12:14:23 PM »
revTrex,

History has shown that changing the volume and length of oil drives ball technology.

I am not proposing the volume or length be changed. In fact, I wish they would vary on a regular basis to keep us on our toes. But that is not practical for most house bowlers.

I am proposing the topography (ratio of oil left to right) be restricted. I am proposing that in order for your ball to get to the pocket each time, you need to hit the same target each time with a consistent speed and release. I am proposing we take away the wall. Take away the area. Other sports do not have a funnel to the goal, why does bowling? Ball technology may still be a partial factor, but I still believe the biggest inflation factor in scoring is "the wall".
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Edited on 12/13/2007 1:16 PM

86camaroman

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Re: Best way to control scoring?
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2007, 02:01:49 PM »
Here is what I say. If you want a tougher shot bowl on a sport pattern that is why they are out there. Dont try to change the house or wall shot because if you do then guess what you will drive alot of people out of bowling. I Personally like a tougher shot and bowl pba leagues. I average 220 to 230 on a house shot and am pretty accurate with most every shot strike or spare I rarely miss a spare. But people that join regular leagues want something easy thats why they didnt join a sport league. They are seperate and thats how they should stay. If there wasnt a house shot at my alley then I would never be able to build a team I mean my team mates now get frustrated on a house shot so if it was harder they would just quit. Bottom line you want tougher bowl in a tougher league dont make people that dont want to do what you want to do be forced to quit. Join a pba league They are fun shot changes week to week.

azus

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Re: Best way to control scoring?
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2007, 02:09:47 PM »
The house i bowl in doesnt use a THS, but they oiled with it this week. The score increased with 100+pins, 3 seriers, for many players. I shot 650 and I didnt thought I bowled that well. Its not fun when i strike on a bad shot.
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rotomike

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Re: Best way to control scoring?
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2007, 02:20:29 PM »
pins pins pins pins pins pins pins pins pins

Easiest for the governing bodies to control and manipulate. Easiest to phase in changes.  Simplest solution that is why it gets ignored.
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Bill Thomas

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Re: Best way to control scoring?
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2007, 02:39:07 PM »
I agree with Mike.  You can do it with pins very efficiently and could probably get the proprietors to go along with it if you phased it over about a 2-3 year period.  Of course, USBC has already said they are against this because it would hurt the youths and seniors.  

Nevertheless, I think the most effective way would be with lane conditions.

revTrex

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Re: Best way to control scoring?
« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2007, 02:59:40 PM »
^^^

Who is the USBC kidding? It would hurt the youth and seniors? From doing what? Rolling 300s when kids are 11?

40 years ago, a kid had to learn the game, how to carry to five pin, etc. Now all he needs is some revs and a reactive ball, and, presto!

LuckyLefty

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Re: Best way to control scoring?
« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2007, 03:04:26 PM »
Richie Sposato says it well.

A powerful release deserves its rewards!

I don't have one really sooooo I can unbiasedly agree!

REgards,

Luckylefty
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Borincano

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Re: Best way to control scoring?
« Reply #12 on: December 13, 2007, 03:12:24 PM »
Also you have to remember that todays bowlers have a very different style of throwing the ball, have more coaching then before and a bit stronger without the steroids then the players of yesterdays. I am new to the sports by 5 years I have seen how bowlers cry because the lane conditions are this and that. I just tell them I see no problems. In that moment I go from the extreme outside of the lane where they have their everynight shot go the extreme inside of the lane to bowl. Throw the ball and strike. Where is the problem? In that moment they stop complaining because they know that it is the operator's problem. The same with the PBA Experience and Sports Paterns. It is all in what you see and the final results. Your eyes, brains and skills determines how good you can be in any era of lane conditions.

Let's forget about todays averages versus yesterdays. Yesterdays are gone and the present future is ours to keep. If some people do not want other bowlers to have high averages so what. As long as you are good bowler having fun that is the purpose. These so call high average Joe's a just house hackers. I have seen them go to tournaments and they do nothing. Like I tell these so call high average people. Since you have such a a high average have you gone to bowl in a regional and won? They just give a blank stare. When you win a regional then you can say you are good.

The best example happen this past Sunday TV PBA tournament. We had five bowlers with the same lane condition. I bet that everybody was going for Walter Ray Williams and Chris Barnes. Devaney looked like he did not have a chance after the first 2 opens. But his eyes, brains and skills help him overcome the favorites.

Besides the objective of the sports of bowling is to throw a bowling ball towards pins standing 60 feet and to knock them down. No matter how the ball strikes them. If it is ugly, brooklyn, solid or light they are still strikes. There is no rule that says you have to hit the pocket for a valid strike. So lets put to rest these lane conditions theory for high averages for people that do not deserve it.

Flood the lanes, dry them out, make the pins heavier and make all bowling balls the same. I will still go out to bowl, have fun and try to be good at it.
I do not care about my opponents average. If he has a higher average and I beat him then that means I am better then him at that moment. Which in turn says I am improving my game. Now lets have some fun and bowl.

novawagonmaster

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Re: Best way to control scoring?
« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2007, 03:25:36 PM »
Borincano,

While I understand what you are saying, let me present another scenario.
In golf, the idea is to hit the ball into the hole in as few strokes as possible. What would your feelings be if one day the greenskeeper said "We are going to make the cups 10 feet in diameter. That will make it easier for players to get the ball into the hole in fewer strokes." Would golfers flock to that course to play so they could shoot better scores? I believe most honest golfers would not like the idea. Why then, as bowlers, are we content with bowling centers walling up the lanes?
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baseballfrk8998

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Re: Best way to control scoring?
« Reply #14 on: December 13, 2007, 03:48:27 PM »
Because we don't roll a bowling ball into a 10 ft hole.
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