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Author Topic: Definition of overkill  (Read 5712 times)

Impending Doom

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Definition of overkill
« on: February 15, 2018, 12:38:36 PM »
Let's have a vocabulary lesson here.

Definition of overkill
1 : a destructive capacity greatly exceeding that required for a given target
2 : an excess of something (such as a quantity or an action) beyond what is required or suitable for a particular purpose.

Now, the majority of us are bowling on some sort of modified house shot. I promise most of us aren't bowling on real heavy flat patterns all of the time. If you are, then this doesn't apply to you.

Your new high end toy is overkill. Your new Jackal Rising, your DCT, your Sure Lock, Mako, Paradox Black, etc etc etc. They're all overkill.

You.
Do.
Not.
Need.
Them.

As the consumer listening to your PSO, you hear "This ball hooks more than last week's hook monster" and automatically think that it's going to hook circles around your previous hook monster.

Chances are, it's not going to.

It's going to be overkill. It's going to suck. And it's not the balls fault. It's yours.

Justin Wi puts together some great videos. His "biggest" hooking layout on assyms is 70*5*70. Notice he isn't trying to play up the track? Why is that?

Very rarely have I seen a ball that honestly is garbage. I've seen it, but nowadays, it's rare. The person is just not using it on the right condition. You are using a nuke to ferret out a groundhog, then get upset when the nuke destroys everything around it.

Rising is early. DCT is early. They're not meant to bounce off the friction. They're meant to slow down as soon as possible. That's what the cover dictates. Slow down asap when you hit the FLOOD.

Please, people. Stop buying a high end ball and expect it to hook circles around your older ball.

I'll even give you a personal experience, to show that even knowledgeable people fall victim to this phenomenon.

I have an Incinerate. F90, strongest cover ever used out of San Antonio. Drilled mine weak (70*5*35) and took it to the heaviest oiled house within 3 counties.

I threw it 6 frames. Haven't thrown it since. Next time I bowl a first squad at a tournament, I'll bring it. Until then, it stays on the shelf.

Now, if it's the biggest ball in the bag, why don't I take it everywhere?? IT'S MY MOST HOOKING BALL!

Because I do not see enough volume anywhere to use it. Too much surface, too much flare, too much ball. Houses around me, I can barely use S70. I'm actually more comfortable with the S60 range or lower. Drift, X, maybe my Dream On if I need to wheel.

Once you reach a point of saturation, you aren't going to have an enjoyable time. News flash, you DO have friction you can use. Don't lie to me. The newest set of snow tires isn't going to help you cover more boards on a house shot. It's akin to having chains on your tires in the summer. You're just going to destroy the pavement.

Stop. Just.stop. 99% of the time, it's not the balls fault. It's yours. It's not your fault, you just fall under the wheels of the Hype machine, which is what the ball companies hope. Keep that revenue coming in!!

 

charlest

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Re: Definition of overkill
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2018, 12:46:44 PM »
Another valiant effort. I thank you.

Many of us old timers have been preaching just that since the advent of resin in 1993. They have virtually all fallen on deaf ears, and on eyes that will not see.
One can only hope a fresher voice can exert some influence.
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

amyers2002

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Re: Definition of overkill
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2018, 01:00:09 PM »
It would be so nice if people would actually listen to this.

SVstar34

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Re: Definition of overkill
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2018, 01:02:50 PM »
I agree. Only time I've really needed more ball is tournaments with higher volume. House shot or modified house shot? Never needed more than a medium strength ball. 44 ft high street used a Motiv Tag Cannon and Radical Rack Attack Pearl last night

Juggernaut

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Re: Definition of overkill
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2018, 01:32:51 PM »
It’s all I can do to throw a polished Hyroad and Wreckem here most of the time.
Learn to laugh, and love, and smile, cause we’re only here for a little while.

HankScorpio

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Re: Definition of overkill
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2018, 01:34:41 PM »
overkill: starting another thread when there’s a very active thread about the same exact topic


six pack

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Re: Definition of overkill
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2018, 01:40:47 PM »
Yeah I’m almost to the point of giving up
The harder I try the harder they fall

Impending Doom

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Re: Definition of overkill
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2018, 02:39:26 PM »
overkill: starting another thread when there’s a very active thread about the same exact topic



And yet, it bears repeating.

rocky61201

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Re: Definition of overkill
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2018, 02:40:30 PM »
Instead of telling them they don't need it, I try to show them they don't need it if they give me a chance.  If opportunity presents itself with the guy who thinks he needs the hook monster, I pull out my No Rules and purposely crank/chicken wing/come around the side of the ball and watch it go straight down the lane maybe cover 5 boards and deflect like a ping pong ball.  On ball two I flatten it out and watch it go dead straight.  Then I'll take out my Hy Road and throw it correctly staying behind/underneath the ball with low axis tilt and come off my fingers cleanly to put enough revs to make it hook and crush the pocket from multiple angles. Then I show them my oil rings/ball track and say "this is what you should strive for" instead wasting your money.

Sometimes you just got to show them to make them believe.

I coach the youth bowlers in my son's league every Sat morning.  For the kids that already know how to bowl I make it point show them good revs vs. bad revs.  After they "get it" their whole game improves.

 
« Last Edit: February 15, 2018, 02:43:58 PM by rocky61201 »
In the bag:  900 Global Zen, Hy Road Pearl, Astro Physix.

Steven

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Re: Definition of overkill
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2018, 03:49:43 PM »
overkill: starting another thread when there’s a very active thread about the same exact topic



And yet, it bears repeating.

 
It absolutely does. Because the "message" is being lost on several in that other thread. I love your premise/argument starting off this topic. Nice job.

BallReviews-Removed0385

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Re: Definition of overkill
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2018, 03:50:22 PM »
Although I pretty much agree that too many buy the "hook monster" without a true need for it, there are times when they can be valuable.  Tuesday night I was wishing I had my Kingpin in the bag (but I refuse to take more than 1 straight ball and 2 crooked ones to league).  Everything either hooked too hard outside or slid too far inside.

You don't NEED beer.
You don't NEED pizza, or french fries.
You don't NEED that new driver, or putter.
We don't NEED lots of things that we think we need, but we still buy them.   

Once we understand ball motion, and how it's created, we will make more informed ball choices based on what we actually bowl on, and our individual talents.
For example, it's difficult to roll the ball like I do (VooDoo roll) so just bowl the way you bowl.  Take advantage of your "A game" and play where the lane allows you to play. 

I still believe that NO BALL HOOKS IN OIL.  Every ball needs to find adequate friction before it can change direction.  If you can get performance with a mid-price ball that's better for your bank account (and more money towards pizza, beer and the other stuff we "need").
« Last Edit: February 15, 2018, 03:53:39 PM by notclay »

milorafferty

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Re: Definition of overkill
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2018, 04:03:46 PM »
Preach on Brother Doom!

90% of the time, I use my Venom Cobra.
"If guns kill people, do pencils misspell words?"

"If you don't stand for our flag, then don't expect me to give a damn about your feelings."

Impending Doom

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Re: Definition of overkill
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2018, 04:04:32 PM »
Another valiant effort. I thank you.

Many of us old timers have been preaching just that since the advent of resin in 1993. They have virtually all fallen on deaf ears, and on eyes that will not see.
One can only hope a fresher voice can exert some influence.

You know, in 93 I was 16. Started working in a pro shop in 94 and the changes were amazing. So since my entrance into the business side of things, resin was.just starting to blow up. Why buy a Crush when you could get a Crush/R? Blue Nitro? Naw, get a Nitro/R! The R stands for reactive!! It makes the urethane ball look like you throw a purse at the pins! People gobbled it up and the shop business was booming. Although, everyone was infatuated with go long snap hard, so much to the point that I had to convince them to use surface to get the ball to read the lane sooner. Boss knew I was right, but people didn't want to listen to some punk kid. (Not much has changed since 94 lol) but instead of directing people to the Danger Zones and shiny skid snap balls, I sold a ton of Nitro/R2s just based off of what I saw with the ball (Funny, one of the best cores ever.) And people loved them instead of wanting 50 feet left turn. It was resin, but still kinda read the lane like urethane.

Then the pro active stuff came out, and thus started the blow a hole in the lane phenomenon. Told people that they didn't need that much cover, and of course, I was just trying to sell them something else right?

I used to strive to sell the best ball reaction for the customer. But once customers had a thought planted in their head, you couldn't shake it out of them.

Not much has changed.

BowlingforSoup

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Re: Definition of overkill
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2018, 04:05:34 PM »
Oh But what will the ball companies do.Prime example of what Doom is saying.Last night in league guy pulls out his brand new Kinetic solid.Not sure what surface it comes with new.It looked pretty dull.Told my teammates this is going to fun.He is lefthanded with maybe 11 mph speed.Lol he shot 123 it was hooking before the arrows.Finally I heard one of his teammates say put that dam thing up.Pro Shop guy needs shot for selling it to him.Cyclones probably to strong for him.
Hectic and a Black pearl Rhino is about all I ever need on THS.

HackJandy

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Re: Definition of overkill
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2018, 04:08:52 PM »
There is a reason why the Hy-Road is celebrating a 10 year anniversary and say the Storm Shift ain't.  I agree oil monster asyms are near worthless on THS but have found a strong sym ball with polish like my Green Quantum is damn useful for at least the first game on the fresh in my doubles league at least with my style.  May end up just putting more surface on my black and using it all three games though.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2018, 04:32:01 PM by HackJandy »
Kind of noob when made this account so take advice with grain of salt.