So we got paid out last night in our mostly high average competitive scratch league.  14 teams, 3 member, 20 dollar a night, only 7.50 out of that is lineage.  We have a nightly 3 game Eliminator, we also have random match play and a match play standings list.  Teams get paid by position and individuals for match play position per third, and for overall Eliminator take.  My team was in 2nd the entire year, it's a 30 point per night system, and overall we took 703 points on the year out of a possible 990.  In years past, teams got paid for total points, but apparently that's not how it works anymore.  Out of 42 people, I finished 4th, 9th and 4th in the match play standings, did well in the Eliminator, split the hi 10 hi 30 pot, got 2nd place hi 10 for team, had the 4th high average in the league, and I got a grand total of 525 bucks back (total league fees for the year was 660) . . 

Now to put this in perspective, the team that was in first the entire year, took nearly 800 points on the year, I made more than 2 of them.  The top guy on their team who reset our house average record at 240 didn't even break even on the year.  The difference between being in 1st and 14th?  30 per person per third.  The difference between being 1st and 42nd in the match play standings?  31 per third. 

To put this in more perspective, I had a bad year last year.  Not terrible, but it wasn't good at all.  Our team finished 8th out of 11 teams, did ok in the Eliminator, finished around the 20 spot in the match play standings every third, and I took home 450. 

More perspective.  My wife ended up bowling on a team at the last minute because they needed somebody.  Their team finished dead last every third, took only 180 points on the year, she made exactly 20 bucks on the eliminator for the year, and finished either last or next to last in the match play standings every third and her envelope contained 250. 

Now don't get me wrong, I'm happy she got a decent chunk of change back . . and I got more out of the prize fund than I paid into it, but not by much.  Matter of fact, overall I had the 4th highest payday in the league, but the 2 directly ahead of me were only ahead of me by a few bucks apiece. 

This seems to me to be absolutely ridiculous.  If you're in a handicap league, cool, spread the wealth, it's supposed to be just for fun.  But when you're in a high average competitive scratch league with a dress code and 2 lane courtesy written into the league rules, fines for unbecoming or unsportsmanlike conduct or not meeting the dress code, and very strict sub and absentee rules, how does this all add up to a spread the wealth payout?  Where's the incentive to bowl well?  I put in way too much effort and lost way too much sleep just to lose 150 bucks on the year.  Because of this, instead of my team returning next year, both my teammates changed their minds, because they only got back about 425 apiece.  One works an hour drive away, and the other works from 5am-9pm 4 days out of the week.  The league starts at 9pm and is usually over around 1130pm.  We put the team together with the expectation of winning money or at least breaking even. 

The tournament I bowled Sunday?  43 entrants, 75 dollar entry fee.  Got second, walked out with 470, that's tournament payout alone, didn't include any side action.  This league?  42 bowlers, 660 dollar "entry" over 9 MONTHS, 525.  What am I missing here?  Yes I realize tournaments are different, but come on . . 

I'm complaining for the team that won also, because I made within 5 dollars of two of the 3 guys on that team, that isn't right.  If you dominate a high average competitive scratch league, you should make money, I don't care if there are 10 people in the league.  The difference between first and second every third was less than 7 dollars per person.  I just think it's not right to completely dominate a league and lose 150 bucks on the year. 

Pride and respect for the game is why you put effort into it.

Joining a league should be about what and where you want to bowl.  And if you are joining a league for the money you should be smart enough to know there is not enough money in a league with 42 people.

And if anyone has a complaint it is the team that won, not the team that finished second.

Also if you want "higher stakes" paying $20 a week isn't gonna get you there lol

Gizmo,
   This is a league we used to have in the SF area. It was 4 people a team, scratch, 800 average cap. We had the same things you have, dress code (black slacks, team shirts), fines for inappropriate behavior, no hats, etc. We were trying to attract sponsors for the league and be a high-end scratch league. We bowled a little earlier than you, we started at 7:15. The house catered to us, allowed us to start later so people could make it from, they oiled the lanes right before we started and there was no bowling on the lanes until practice so everyone had the same fresh condition. We paid 37/week (this was back in 2001/2002/2003 time frame) and it paid $10,000 for first place. The league had a minimum of 32 teams the years I bowled in it, as high as 38 one year.
 
    The reason I think this league worked so well, was because of the the way the playoff was structured. We had 3 divisions and bowled thirds. Every third the teams randomly drew for their division. The 9 division winners (or less if someone happened to win more than 1 third) were the first 9 seeds in the playoffs based on total points for the year (we bowled head to head against the person across from you, team game and team total points...I can't remember the exact breakdown anymore sorry). The team with the highest point total that won at least 1 division was guaranteed, no worse than 2nd place as they were seeded #1 and into the "championship match". After that we took wild card teams to get to a total of 12 team 12 teams in the playoffs. Once that is done, every other team in the league that wasn't in the playoff, rolled in a "last chance tournament" on the Saturday after the last night of league. We rolled 3 games and the top 6 teams in total pinfall advance. Then those 6 teams bowled head to head (1 vs. 6, 2 vs. 5, etc) ina two game match using our league scoring. This continued until there were 2 teams left, and they became teams 13 and 14 in the playoffs. So, theoretically, a team could go 0 - 300 for the year and still make the playoffs. The teams that missed the playoffs were then ranked from 15 - 32,36,38 and were paid that way. The playoffs started that same Saturday and continued on Sunday. Seeds 11 and 12 bowled seeds 14 and 13 respectively in 2 game matches using our league scoring. The winners bowled teams 9 and 10...and so on until there was 1 team remaining from the playoffs. That team would bowl the #1 seed on the next league night for the championship, while the rest of the league bowled in a sweeper night. So, again theoreticaly, that 0-300 team could win the $10,000 and first place. In made sure every point was worth something, cause getting that #1 seed is huge. But it also made it so everyone had a shot to get more money at the end of the year. One year, I remember, we were 18th overall, but we bowled well in the tournament and wound up finishing in 8th place and got a good chunk of extra cash per man for doing so.
      Maybe, if you had something like this set-up, you could get people to agree to a more top-heavy payout, because everyone would have more of a chance to get it. Unfortunately, I don't know if this will work in today's environment. Due to the downturn and some mismanagement by new owners of the center, this league has disappeared. The league is still bowling, but it is a shadow of it's former self. The payout is down, only 12 teams, I am guessing the playoff is gone too. But it's a thought for you.

That sounds like a lot of fun . . we have a team baker tournament at the end of the year where you're seeded based on total points for the year, best 2 out of 3 to move on, so that's kind of fun, but not really. 

Gizmo,
   This is a league we used to have in the SF area. It was 4 people a team, scratch, 800 average cap. We had the same things you have, dress code (black slacks, team shirts), fines for inappropriate behavior, no hats, etc. We were trying to attract sponsors for the league and be a high-end scratch league. We bowled a little earlier than you, we started at 7:15. The house catered to us, allowed us to start later so people could make it from, they oiled the lanes right before we started and there was no bowling on the lanes until practice so everyone had the same fresh condition. We paid 37/week (this was back in 2001/2002/2003 time frame) and it paid $10,000 for first place. The league had a minimum of 32 teams the years I bowled in it, as high as 38 one year.
 
    The reason I think this league worked so well, was because of the the way the playoff was structured. We had 3 divisions and bowled thirds. Every third the teams randomly drew for their division. The 9 division winners (or less if someone happened to win more than 1 third) were the first 9 seeds in the playoffs based on total points for the year (we bowled head to head against the person across from you, team game and team total points...I can't remember the exact breakdown anymore sorry). The team with the highest point total that won at least 1 division was guaranteed, no worse than 2nd place as they were seeded #1 and into the "championship match". After that we took wild card teams to get to a total of 12 team 12 teams in the playoffs. Once that is done, every other team in the league that wasn't in the playoff, rolled in a "last chance tournament" on the Saturday after the last night of league. We rolled 3 games and the top 6 teams in total pinfall advance. Then those 6 teams bowled head to head (1 vs. 6, 2 vs. 5, etc) ina two game match using our league scoring. This continued until there were 2 teams left, and they became teams 13 and 14 in the playoffs. So, theoretically, a team could go 0 - 300 for the year and still make the playoffs. The teams that missed the playoffs were then ranked from 15 - 32,36,38 and were paid that way. The playoffs started that same Saturday and continued on Sunday. Seeds 11 and 12 bowled seeds 14 and 13 respectively in 2 game matches using our league scoring. The winners bowled teams 9 and 10...and so on until there was 1 team remaining from the playoffs. That team would bowl the #1 seed on the next league night for the championship, while the rest of the league bowled in a sweeper night. So, again theoreticaly, that 0-300 team could win the $10,000 and first place. In made sure every point was worth something, cause getting that #1 seed is huge. But it also made it so everyone had a shot to get more money at the end of the year. One year, I remember, we were 18th overall, but we bowled well in the tournament and wound up finishing in 8th place and got a good chunk of extra cash per man for doing so.
      Maybe, if you had something like this set-up, you could get people to agree to a more top-heavy payout, because everyone would have more of a chance to get it. Unfortunately, I don't know if this will work in today's environment. Due to the downturn and some mismanagement by new owners of the center, this league has disappeared. The league is still bowling, but it is a shadow of it's former self. The payout is down, only 12 teams, I am guessing the playoff is gone too. But it's a thought for you.

It's just the principle of it, but I asked for perspective and you gave it to me. 

And the future of the league isn't really better off . . I lost my team and there are a couple others considering not going back now because there's not really a reason to.  You could show up and put a lot of effort into trying to win and get back maybe 75 bucks more than somebody else who just shows up and half sleeps through the whole set.  I'm just not sure I've ever seen a competitive scratch league with the rules they have set up that pays out like a handicap league. 

Yes I understand you don't bowl league to get rich, but there's no incentive to try or put any effort into it.  If you're going to make within 100 bucks of everyone else no matter what, why drive in from out of town, why be kept up until midnight every night, why make sure you've got your league shirt and meet the dress code so you don't get fined, why have 2 lane courtesy, and why have to mess with trying to find subs all the time because you can only use your average ONCE per third?  Why put up with all that when you can go find some fun handicap league without all the pretentious rules that still gets you to bed at a decent time and will give you the same payout structure?  That's really what my issue is . . not too excited about losing sleep and jumping through a bunch of hoops in a pretentious league just to get nothing for it. 

The other issue is that the prize fund had to have been changed or adjusted.  No one voted on it, no one got to see it, that's just what it was.  Again, based on how it had been paid out in the past, no one was worried about it because the secretary has been the same for a long time and he's done a very good job for a long time.  And when you're already signed up and a few weeks into the league when you get to vote on a prize fund in other leagues anyway, what can you really do? 

Quote from: northface28 on April 24, 2014, 06:09:07 PM

Quote from: itsallaboutme on April 24, 2014, 03:44:19 PM

It adds up.  Top got less, bottom got more.

If the $100 is going to make a difference in your life I'll send you $100.  The future of the league is better off with a more balanced payout.

Simple as that.

Harsh, but true. No one is getting rich off bowling league. Im having a hard time seeing what your beef is. Its like taking a job but not knowing how much you'll be paid and then complain when you get your check. When money is involved ALWAYS get the particulars upfront.

Didn't you know all this when you started bowling the league?

two fitty and complaining.

Fair enough.

Westerly RI by any chance?