Author Topic: How can Lower RG balls have snappy backends? (Read 8703 times)

Ric Clint · « **on:** July 27, 2004, 08:51:00 AM »

How is this possible? It seems that Higher RG balls would store up more energy and drive harder, but some companies are now coming out with Low RG balls in the 2.46-2.49 range and saying that they are Sid/Flip balls... How???

How do they store energy for the backend, if they're rolling early???

In order for Lower RG balls to have a big strong backend (or even be skid/flip), what kind of differential do they have to have in order to make this kind of ball reaction possible... High Differential like .058-.070 ... or Low Differential like .030-.045

To me, it seems that in order for the Low RG balls to have a strong backend, that there must be a High Differentail present... but that's just my thinking.

Thoughts?

Jeff The Chef · « **Reply #1 on:** July 28, 2004, 12:21:26 AM »

quote:
You got it Ric. Low RG makes it roll soon, high diff gives it lots of flare potential. The flip is mostly decided by drilling actually, but some balls are characteristically flippier than others.

Longer pin-outs and higher top weights make a ball snappier too. Also, look at the coverstocks. Pearls, reactives, particles? They've all got different qualities. Core shape is another big one, but that's obvious I think.

I know it's obvious, but I'll say it anyway. Another key factor is the bowlers release. If you throw the ball the way I do, with lots of revs and a lot of axis rotation, you can make a lot of the so called "tamer" or "arcy" balls do wild things on the backends. Some companies will take that into consideration and actually state on their drill sheets that the ball will work better for higher rev players or low speed players (thus implying that if said ball were used by that style of player it will "snap"). I think Ebonite did/does this?

As for a company saying a Low RG ball has a "skid-snap" reaction, I would say the coverstock prep of that ball coming from the factory allows them to market it that way. For example; I would think that any ball, regardless of it's composition, would have a noticably snappier reaction if it was polished to say 2000 grit.

Chef
--------------------
http://www.ohmytrance.com

DP3 · « **Reply #2 on:** July 28, 2004, 12:28:08 AM »

Alot of you people seem to be obsessed with numbers. Numbers don't mean as much as they used to. Core Shape dictates motion, don't forget that.
--------------------
-DJ Marshall
You're not Bowling if you're not using "B"runswick
Scratchbowling.com

Ric Clint · « **Reply #3 on:** July 28, 2004, 01:06:42 AM »

quote:
Alot of you people seem to be obsessed with numbers. Numbers don't mean as much as they used to. Core Shape dictates motion, don't forget that.

Really??? I kind of see what you mean... There's been balls in the last 2-3 years that were suppose to do this and do that (when you judge it by the RG and Differential)... but when you'd throw them, they would be alot different (as far as the ball's actual reaction on the lanes).

And some balls that by looking at the SPECS, should be weaker than they actually are... those being the Angle Evolution TOUR, AZO Ultima RP, Silver Streak solid & pearl, etc...

And then again, they are some balls that were suppose to be these big monster, and on the lanes, they wouldn't hook any more than my XXXL.

So I guess with some balls that the specs CAN be "misleading" and that sometimes the CORE SHAPE does indeed "over-ride" the ball's specs (as far as what the specs say, and what the ball ACTUALLY does on the lanes)... agree?

Anymore thoughts???

Siniak · « **Reply #4 on:** July 28, 2004, 07:34:54 AM »

Here's my thought, the reason some low rg balls are skid flip is because of the cover. Low rg balls rev up faster and better right? So if you put it in a coverstock that won't grip until very late, wouldn't this create the power that is necessary for a big backend?

Jeffrevs · « **Reply #5 on:** July 28, 2004, 07:39:28 AM »

quote:
Here's my thought, the reason some low rg balls are skid flip is because of the cover.

YES !!!!!!!!

Remember, you can put a dynamic core in a plastic ball and it still won't do that much....so it's the cover!

Silver Streak Pearl is a perfect example....2.52 pretty low but flippy
--------------------
JEFF
There is doing in not doing

charlest · « **Reply #6 on:** July 28, 2004, 07:57:12 AM »

Stop looking at only the core's specifications in order to see what a ball is capable of doing!

The coverstock's effect, in general, on a ball's reaction is approximately 2.5 times as great as the core's effect, if only those 2 factors are taken into account. The bowler's release and the oil pattern/amount/lane surface all have much greater effect on the entire picture. That is why some people can use a particular ball on only medium light oil patterns, while others can't use it on anything less than medium-heavy. There is a HUGE difference between medium-light and medium-heavy.

{I now step off the podium.

}
--------------------
"We get old too fast, and too late, smart."

Edited on 7/28/2004 7:52 AM

GendouIkari · « **Reply #7 on:** July 28, 2004, 09:33:04 AM »

It also depends on coverstock, remember, highly polished will give you skip/snap and high or low sanded will give you an even arc, remember Skid/snap is about storing energy for the backend, Eg. My inferno, if a sand it, I will get a nice arc to the pocket and use it on heavy oil, but if I polish it, (Like I have it now, its a HUGE snap on the backend it makes me feel more cranker than twenner...

). And I almost forgot, you can drill a low RG ball with a HIGH RG drilling... just read some of the drilling instructions and you'll see... Sometimes numbers, are just numbers, but, they can help you have an idea of what the ball CAN do...
--------------------
Gendou Ikari... Bowl to Win!!!

LuckyLefty · « **Reply #8 on:** July 28, 2004, 10:22:54 AM »

Low rg put on a ball with high diff and a core shape that is not real fat in the middle, plus pearl for energy retention leads to less midlane and the delay of the move to the back even though the ball is revving hard in fronts.

Some examples of this are the Wired and Blade pearl. Both lower rg skid flip balls if left shiny!

Remember drilling for more midlane or having a core shape that encourages midlane(fat in the middle) sets up more of a hook set look.

REgards,

Luckylefty

jensm · « **Reply #9 on:** July 28, 2004, 10:59:06 AM »

One useful feature in Chip Zielke's book Revolutions 2 is a small table ranking the key technical elements of bowling balls and their influence on ball reaction. It goes something like this:

1. Coverstock/Surface Prep 65-70%
2. Weight Block/Core Design 15-20%
3. Dynamic Balance 10-15%
4. Balance Holes 0-5%
5. Mass Bias 0-5%
6. Static Weights 0-5%

This table is useful since it kind of tells you what to focus on in bowling balls.

--------------------
Regards,

jensm

LuckyLefty · « **Reply #10 on:** July 28, 2004, 11:13:11 AM »

This varies quite a bit from bowler to bowler.

For example a medium rev high axis rotation player like myself with soft speed, drilling and core shape make a lot more difference to me than say a Mika or Walter Ray. As both of them have lots of speed and little axis rotation.

They being ball reaction MINIMIZERS find surface to be almost the only factor that counts.

Me as a ball reaction MAXIMIZER, (I might get more movement than even a high rev player with speed) find that core and drilling make such a difference. If I can match it may be 30 pins in average difference!

REgards,

Luckylefty

Brickguy221 · « **Reply #11 on:** July 28, 2004, 12:43:31 PM »

Just when I thought I understood RG's and Differentals, you people now have me totally confused. First, I agree the cover has a lot to do with it. What I don't understand is saying a higher RG ball with a certain cover can work the same as a lower RG ball. For example take myself. Over the years, out of the dozens and dozens of balls I have bought, because of my low revs I have yet to find a higher RG ball regardless of cover that will work for me and the higher the RG, the more they won't rev up for me and they skid thru or over shoot the break point. The lower RG balls regardless of cover will rev up for me and will seldom skid thru or overshoot the break point. Some will rev up better than others and of coarse this is effected by the cover. To me, this would say the RG has a huge effect on the balls performance. Making this RG thing a small part of a balls performance has left me totally confused.

--------------------
Retired and bowling on Fixed Income

Edited on 7/28/2004 12:41 PM

T-GOD · « **Reply #12 on:** July 28, 2004, 01:06:29 PM »

Low RG balls don't necessarily hook early, they roll early and rev up more. If you have a ball revving up more, when bowling on oil, the ball will just keep revving, like a car on ice.

But, when the ball comes off the oil and hits dry, bam..!! the ball snaps and takes off. A lot has to do with the lane conditions, ball surface and a bowlers release as well.

Numbers alone don't tell the whole story..!! =:^D

Jeffrevs · « **Reply #13 on:** July 28, 2004, 01:09:40 PM »

Nice to see to back T-GOD
--------------------
JEFF
There is doing in not doing

Constantine · « **Reply #14 on:** July 28, 2004, 01:11:09 PM »

quote:
Making this RG thing a small part of a balls performance has left me totally confused.

You don't sound confused to me.

As LuckyLefty already said, there are styles to minimize the core's effects and there are styles that maximize the core's effects.

You said you have low revs and from your profile I see that you track a little toward the low side. I can easly see from that combination why high RG balls aren't well suited to your game. They core causes skid and you use less of the cover which causes skid. So I'd say your style maximies the core's effects.

BTW: Your profile says that you have problems getting the ball to rev in the mid-lane and I see that all of you balls are drilled with the pin near your ring finger. Have you tried a ball with the pin lower/closer to your PAP? Instead of a 4" pin to PAP, use a 2 3/4" pin to PAP. Flare potential and total hook are very close (used differential is the same), but the ball revs earlier due to the lower RG used.
--------------------
Good luck & good bowling

Author Topic: How can Lower RG balls have snappy backends? (Read 8703 times)

Ric Clint

How can Lower RG balls have snappy backends?

Jeff The Chef

Re: How can Lower RG balls have snappy backends?

DP3

Re: How can Lower RG balls have snappy backends?

Ric Clint

Re: How can Lower RG balls have snappy backends?

Siniak

Re: How can Lower RG balls have snappy backends?

Jeffrevs

Re: How can Lower RG balls have snappy backends?

charlest

Re: How can Lower RG balls have snappy backends?

GendouIkari

Re: How can Lower RG balls have snappy backends?

LuckyLefty

Re: How can Lower RG balls have snappy backends?

jensm

Re: How can Lower RG balls have snappy backends?

LuckyLefty

Re: How can Lower RG balls have snappy backends?

Brickguy221

Re: How can Lower RG balls have snappy backends?

T-GOD

Re: How can Lower RG balls have snappy backends?

Jeffrevs

Re: How can Lower RG balls have snappy backends?

Constantine

Re: How can Lower RG balls have snappy backends?