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Author Topic: How do you deal with bad carry on a difficult house shot?  (Read 4545 times)

bowler100

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How do you deal with bad carry on a difficult house shot?
« on: March 31, 2018, 06:23:29 PM »
League night is quite an adventure. First off all, the apparent volume of oil varies dramatically from week to week on the fresh (It can get pretty heavy up front sometimes). The backends are always CRAZY strong on the fresh (no hold at all inside 10 board) plus the outsides have very little free hook outside 7 (even as a 400+ RPM bowler squaring up with a dull ball haha). Many sport patterns I have bowled on were actually easier IMO.

Being that the pattern plays pretty flat, I tend to start outside five straight up (very small belly) with a pretty early rolling, but relatively mild particle ball (Morich Labyrinth with green scotch brite) and hand almost completely up the back. I have no trouble getting to the pocket but my carry is just horrific. Ringing 10s and swisher 7s almost every other shot. A lot of these shots had the pins dancing around so my roll was pretty solid. I make a 1/2 board move right with my feet keeping the same target and I start getting early hook and leaving 4 pins; sometimes with the 9 accompanying it. So what about moving in and increasing my axis rotation? When I do that, my Labyrinth absolutely refuses to read the mids and it twitches off the end of the pattern which results in ugly leaves such as the 3-4-6-7-9-10 split.

Next, I tried my DV8 Maurader at 2000 and the ball never even thought about getting into a roll. I figured that I might try out my Gauntlet with a green scotch brite. I had to make a 7 board board move with my feet from the Labyrinth and stay up the back. This ball actually read the mids easily but the entry angle was questionable with my lower axis rotation which once again resulted in being in the flat/ringing 10 zone. If I increased the axis rotation on the Gauntlet even slightly, the ball would still read the mids but would go run away brooklyn.   

Normally, I use axis rotation in order to get the proper shape off the end of the pattern. Since I use this type of adjustment a lot, I tend to use equipment that is on the earlier rolling side to control the motion off the spot while increase entry angle into the pocket. The problem with doing that on this pattern is that it forces me to take a big step to the left and give the pocket away too much due to the hook at the end of the pattern. The other problem is that the pattern is so slick up front that missing to the outside by even a couple of boards could result in a gutter ball.

The funny thing is that I recently practiced on the 2016 Open Championships pattern that was laid out at another center and had no problems with entry angle and carry from my dulled up Gauntlet. I could use my normal axis rotation and play out around three board (dangerous I know) with almost no belly and watch it angle into the pocket beautifully. The pattern was very flat and heavy but I found a great look. At my home center, the Gauntlet would hook like mad unless I serious cut down on my axis rotation and even then I had to give the pocket away more than I did on the OC pattern.
 
I will admit, it is frustrating bowling a mid-to-high 500s every week in league when I could walk into another an unfamiliar center and easily shoot a high 600 series. The good news is that I always get plenty of practice at my spares and it challenges me to make good shots even with a less than ideal ball reaction. If I always shot at least 225 per game than I would probably quit bowling out of boredom. The fact I am struggling will make it more rewarding when I do score well because I felt like I EARNED IT.

I know, it is a long-winded post. I am still a college kid so any feedback or suggestions from more experienced bowlers is welcomed!


Just FYI, they use a Brunswick oil machine and have a newer generation of Anvilanes.


« Last Edit: March 31, 2018, 06:31:49 PM by bowler100 »

 

strikeking12

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Re: How do you deal with bad carry on a difficult house shot?
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2018, 09:27:50 AM »
SHUT UP AND BOWL!!!!!!!!!!

LookingForALeftyWall

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Re: How do you deal with bad carry on a difficult house shot?
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2018, 09:38:29 AM »
Where are the 225+ bowlers playing?  Start there and adjust off that to fit the attributes of your game. 

avabob

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Re: How do you deal with bad carry on a difficult house shot?
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2018, 09:48:48 AM »
The way you describe the pattern it sounds like you are doing good just getting to the pocket regularly.  Is anyone really scoring on this shot. 

avabob

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Re: How do you deal with bad carry on a difficult house shot?
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2018, 11:54:35 AM »
I've had a lot if 300, and averaged over 230 many times when I was younger.  Never got bored

bowler100

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Re: How do you deal with bad carry on a difficult house shot?
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2018, 04:02:18 PM »
The way you describe the pattern it sounds like you are doing good just getting to the pocket regularly.  Is anyone really scoring on this shot.
Nobody. One guy who averages 220 at another center averages under 180 on this shot!

Impending Doom

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Re: How do you deal with bad carry on a difficult house shot?
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2018, 05:04:14 PM »
If you're hitting the pocket and not carrying, it's because of how your ball is going thru the pins. Look at the higher average bowlers. Is their ball setting up at the pocket, or looking like it's rolling out? Ball is slowing down too fast or too slow?

What kind of carry issues are you having (specific leaves) that the higher average bowlers aren't experiencing?

Jesse James

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Re: How do you deal with bad carry on a difficult house shot?
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2018, 05:46:28 PM »
I appreciate your level of detail in how you're attacking this pattern, however I believe you are over thinking this thing!

Most of the balls you are using are close to the same RG of 2.50 or higher. Differential  is in the .047-.050 range. You said you're getting a lot of ringing tens and swisher 7's. To me....your balls are inherently too strong!

Ball down a bit, add some surface and then add hand as needed based on how weak the piece is that you're using. Just my opinion.
Some days you're the bug....some days you're the windshield...that's bowling!

tommyboy74

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Re: How do you deal with bad carry on a difficult house shot?
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2018, 05:52:26 PM »
I'm thinking it's a combination of the wrong surface and the wrong line for the pattern. 

The Labyrinth with the current surface you have is likely hooking so early that it's causing a loss of energy in back.  Doing some research on that ball, the box surface is 500.  Taking a green Scotch Brite to it added even more surface which probably brought it to 250-400. That is overkill on many patterns, especially with a 400+ rev rate and squaring up.  It's going to cause the ball to hit like a marshmallow and be DOA when it hits the 1-3.

First, I would likely ball down to something that has a cleaner cover if you want to square up and stay direct.  That can allow you to keep your hand up the back and allow the ball to conserve energy for making a move downlane.

Second, If you want to take a jump inside and use the axis rotation/rev rate to create angle and the shape downlane, you can as you have that ability.  Only then would I likely use a stronger solid or hybrid with some surface as you'll be keeping it in the oil longer to react properly.  You also may need to adjust to your speed as the conditions allow.  But something like that should not need the amount of surface you are currently using.

Third, definitely watch what the better bowlers are doing on that pattern.  Impending Doom mentioned this and it's a good piece of advice.  Maybe there is a zone they are playing or a certain area (think of it as boundaries) where they're consistently scoring well.  Use that information to your advantage.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2018, 05:55:55 PM by tommyboy74 »
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bowler100

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Re: How do you deal with bad carry on a difficult house shot?
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2018, 07:00:41 PM »
If you're hitting the pocket and not carrying, it's because of how your ball is going thru the pins. Look at the higher average bowlers. Is their ball setting up at the pocket, or looking like it's rolling out? Ball is slowing down too fast or too slow?

What kind of carry issues are you having (specific leaves) that the higher average bowlers aren't experiencing?
Carry issues effect most of the good bowlers in that league except an speed-dominant (normally 215+ average) spinner throwing a Sure Lock and another guy who is a two-hander piping a Pitch Black up the 4 board. Otherwise, everybody else's bowling balls lack a good midlane read and are very skid/flip. The carry issues I have come from the ball either skidding too long or standing up and puking. 

bowler100

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Re: How do you deal with bad carry on a difficult house shot?
« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2018, 07:10:51 PM »
I appreciate your level of detail in how you're attacking this pattern, however I believe you are over thinking this thing!

Most of the balls you are using are close to the same RG of 2.50 or higher. Differential  is in the .047-.050 range. You said you're getting a lot of ringing tens and swisher 7's. To me....your balls are inherently too strong!

Ball down a bit, add some surface and then add hand as needed based on how weak the piece is that you're using. Just my opinion.
I get you on the overthinking part. I am a math and science major after all! On the flipside, shiny balls do not read the mids at all and seriously peel like crazy (if you have slow enough ball speed). Even my Labyrinth at a low grit skids far more than you would probably think through the front. There is a LOT of oil up front.

LuckyLefty

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Re: How do you deal with bad carry on a difficult house shot?
« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2018, 08:11:37 PM »
I show up..throw and then thank the house manager at the end of the set for making me one of the more dangerous handicap bowlers in my state.

Reverse block unintentional.

Blessings in disguise!  I go to the next tourney and smile 😃.

Center manager, Thank you for not having a clue!

Regards,

Luckylefty
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

bowler100

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Re: How do you deal with bad carry on a difficult house shot?
« Reply #12 on: April 01, 2018, 08:41:40 PM »
I'm thinking it's a combination of the wrong surface and the wrong line for the pattern. 

The Labyrinth with the current surface you have is likely hooking so early that it's causing a loss of energy in back.  Doing some research on that ball, the box surface is 500.  Taking a green Scotch Brite to it added even more surface which probably brought it to 250-400. That is overkill on many patterns, especially with a 400+ rev rate and squaring up.  It's going to cause the ball to hit like a marshmallow and be DOA when it hits the 1-3.

First, I would likely ball down to something that has a cleaner cover if you want to square up and stay direct.  That can allow you to keep your hand up the back and allow the ball to conserve energy for making a move downlane.

Second, If you want to take a jump inside and use the axis rotation/rev rate to create angle and the shape downlane, you can as you have that ability.  Only then would I likely use a stronger solid or hybrid with some surface as you'll be keeping it in the oil longer to react properly.  You also may need to adjust to your speed as the conditions allow.  But something like that should not need the amount of surface you are currently using.

Third, definitely watch what the better bowlers are doing on that pattern.  Impending Doom mentioned this and it's a good piece of advice.  Maybe there is a zone they are playing or a certain area (think of it as boundaries) where they're consistently scoring well.  Use that information to your advantage.
Now that I think about it, it is really a case of me trying too hard to get to get mismatched balls to work. So far I have seen shiny reactives skid and/or flip too much for me while dull reactives/particles would stand up and puke at the backend.     

I have an idea... I will pull out my black hammer so I can keep my angles closed, control the skid up front, and slow the response at the back of the pattern. That way I don't have to try so hard to manipulate a bad ball reaction plus I would likely get better continuation through the pins.

 

bowler100

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Re: How do you deal with bad carry on a difficult house shot?
« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2018, 09:10:34 PM »
I show up..throw and then thank the house manager at the end of the set for making me one of the more dangerous handicap bowlers in my state.

Reverse block unintentional.

Blessings in disguise!  I go to the next tourney and smile 😃.

Center manager, Thank you for not having a clue!

Regards,

Luckylefty
Seriously, the bowling center I bowl at has employees (including the owner and mechanic) who are NOT bowlers. They are nice but there is always a disconnect when they talk to the bowlers. Plus the oil machine constantly malfunctions and does not oil consistently from week to week. The good news is that when I bowl at other centers, I clean up! Every other house feels like a giant wall compared to this center.

dmonroe814

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Re: How do you deal with bad carry on a difficult house shot?
« Reply #14 on: April 02, 2018, 08:33:23 AM »
Our shot differs some every night.  Factors in Florida are heat, humidity, who bowled on them before, amount of stripper used....you get the picture.  I like to swing the ball, but outside the 10 is a desert, making it very over under.  A lot of hacks and seniors that force me left to stay out of their tracks as much as possible.  When the back ends are not as clean as normal, and carry is poor, I just close up my angles, come up the back of the ball and really focus on my spares.  Lets me shoot 190-200 vs 160-170.  Simple bowling adjustments.
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