win a ball from Bowling.com

Author Topic: Is bowling going to be R.I.P. soon  (Read 15484 times)

BrianCRX90

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2486
Is bowling going to be R.I.P. soon
« on: April 25, 2016, 02:43:30 PM »
Not trying to be a pessimist, but 15 years ago in my area bowling was very popular, to an extent still is but some of the trends are very disturbing to me:

The formation of USBC - thought at the time it would be a good idea to merge ABC/WIBC. After 10 years of this since 2005, I do not see the benefit of merging the two bodies. All I see is increase in fees and for what?

The PBA, a sport 10 years ago was my favorite to watch on tv and attend in person is surviving on a thread. I used to record every show but now...who cares? It's not a real tour anymore, nothing is live except for a couple major events and most of the events are in one city then eventually may have it an another city. Kind of hard to take seriously when the events are not live and not having a tour for everyone to see.

Bowling alleys. What year in your area was the last time a bowling alley was built? Entertainment centers like Main Event or Lucky Strike do not count. These places don't usually have leagues. They cater everything from kids to upper class drinking adults. I counted all the bowling alleys in my area and I came up with 1988 was the last time a bowling alley was built, also every time a bowling alley has been closed down nothing has took it's place.

Also, Brunswick selling their company to Bolmore was probably the nail in the coffin. Brunswick was the best thing to happen to bowling in the 1980's putting alleys everywhere, AMF has always sucked then Bolmore did nothing to improve them not they practically have a monopoly on it. Let's not talk about what Bolmore did to my Brunswick bowling alley's bar.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2016, 02:45:30 PM by BrianCRX90 »

 

Good Times Good Times

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6462
  • INTJ Personality
Re: Is bowling going to be R.I.P. soon
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2016, 02:56:19 PM »
Uh, youth bowling isn't doing too bad....

I actually bowled a scratch sweeper yesterday with a pretty good turnout.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2016, 02:57:58 PM by Good Times Good Times »
GTx2

txbowler

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 626
Re: Is bowling going to be R.I.P. soon
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2016, 04:10:42 PM »
Sean Rash had some interesting comments about "the tour".  He said people kept saying the tour is nothing like it was in the 70s and 80s when they traveled across the USA.  Sorta like the comments the poster mentioned.  Sean's reply:  It's now a worldwide tour.  He said he bowls approx 40 weeks a year around the world.  He's got to see parts of the world he never dreamed of seeing.  He's glad it is not a USA only tour. 

As we are seeing.  The are good bowlers all over the world.  Sweden, Australia, Britain and Japan to name a few.  Just need to look at it differently.  Sure it's not on TV every Saturday but it's on TV a lot.

bradl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1660
Re: Is bowling going to be R.I.P. soon
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2016, 05:28:37 PM »
Sean Rash had some interesting comments about "the tour".  He said people kept saying the tour is nothing like it was in the 70s and 80s when they traveled across the USA.  Sorta like the comments the poster mentioned.  Sean's reply:  It's now a worldwide tour.  He said he bowls approx 40 weeks a year around the world.  He's got to see parts of the world he never dreamed of seeing.  He's glad it is not a USA only tour. 

As we are seeing.  The are good bowlers all over the world.  Sweden, Australia, Britain and Japan to name a few.  Just need to look at it differently.  Sure it's not on TV every Saturday but it's on TV a lot.

I have to agree with this. I can't remember a time before the USBC that the Japan Open or any other international tournament was aired (whether on network/broadcast TV, YouTube, or otherwise). For the past 3 years or more, we've been treated to:

  • Various Collegiate Tournaments,
  • Aforementioned Japan Cup,
  • QubicaAMF World Cup,
  • TeamUSA Trials,
  • World Men's/Women's Championship,
  • World Youth Bowling Championship, and
  • the Relaunched PWBA.

I know there are a few others I'm missing. But I don't see any of that happening without the USBC bringing the ABC, WIBC, and YABA under one roof.

Up in Portland, there are a few that are being built, with one currently closed for rebuilding. It was 12 years ago when The Strike Zone at Sunset Station here in Vegas was built. So yes, there are alleys being built. If one is expecting a 1:1 ratio for openings and closures, that's going to be a stretch, given the number of outlets for entertainment these days. But they definitely are being built overseas.

BL.

SG17

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 395
Re: Is bowling going to be R.I.P. soon
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2016, 06:12:57 PM »
Sean Rash had some interesting comments about "the tour".  He said people kept saying the tour is nothing like it was in the 70s and 80s when they traveled across the USA.  Sorta like the comments the poster mentioned.  Sean's reply:  It's now a worldwide tour.  He said he bowls approx 40 weeks a year around the world.  He's got to see parts of the world he never dreamed of seeing.  He's glad it is not a USA only tour. 

As we are seeing.  The are good bowlers all over the world.  Sweden, Australia, Britain and Japan to name a few.  Just need to look at it differently.  Sure it's not on TV every Saturday but it's on TV a lot.

I have to agree with this. I can't remember a time before the USBC that the Japan Open or any other international tournament was aired (whether on network/broadcast TV, YouTube, or otherwise). For the past 3 years or more, we've been treated to:

  • Various Collegiate Tournaments,
  • Aforementioned Japan Cup,
  • QubicaAMF World Cup,
  • TeamUSA Trials,
  • World Men's/Women's Championship,
  • World Youth Bowling Championship, and
  • the Relaunched PWBA.

I know there are a few others I'm missing. But I don't see any of that happening without the USBC bringing the ABC, WIBC, and YABA under one roof.

Up in Portland, there are a few that are being built, with one currently closed for rebuilding. It was 12 years ago when The Strike Zone at Sunset Station here in Vegas was built. So yes, there are alleys being built. If one is expecting a 1:1 ratio for openings and closures, that's going to be a stretch, given the number of outlets for entertainment these days. But they definitely are being built overseas.

BL.


how does the existence of the USBC influence the PBA events I see on TV?  the Japan open is not an USBC event.

For me, the USBC member, I have seen my fees go up.  I have seen the prizes and awards go down.

I guess the female members get some benefit as the mens events are gone, replaced by open events that females are welcome to join.  and The Womens only tournaments are subsidized by the open events.

I know in my state; if USBC didn't exist to create a shared funding for the different USBC state tournaments that there would not be a womens usbc state championship, nor a mixed.  Those events don't get the participation to be self sufficient. 

is bowling going to 'die'.  I am in my 30s, and I highly doubt my life time will see the end of bowling as a recreational league/tournament sport.  The PBA has evolved into something I don't watch much anymore; but I bet that it will continue for some time as well.  There is too much international interest in the game for it to "die"


rackattack

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 994
Re: Is bowling going to be R.I.P. soon
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2016, 06:31:32 PM »
Maybe it should be RIP USBC. Ever since they moved in with the BPOA its been less bowler and more propreiter. I would welcome a true representation alternative.

spmcgivern

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2079
Re: Is bowling going to be R.I.P. soon
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2016, 07:34:59 AM »
Wow, I didn't realize there could be so much hate it so few replies.  The first three replies show how bowling in general is growing beyond what some may realize.  And the last two replies sound like the "get off my lawn" types who see what is going on around them as the defacto case for the entire bowling world.

If you don't like USBC, then don't bowl in their events.  You don't have to be a member to bowl the same as you don't have to be a member of the PGA to play golf and enjoy it.  Also, fees or dues for USBC have not gone up in about 10 years so not sure what makes you think you are paying more.  In fact, it could be said you are paying less in current value.

Not sure about other states, but pretty sure USBC state events are self sufficient.  Local USBCs have to pay the bills and the national USBC does not do that for them.  It would be ridiculous to expect a tournament to be run and not be able to pay the payouts from the collected monies.

Bowler19525

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 879
Re: Is bowling going to be R.I.P. soon
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2016, 08:15:06 AM »
The USBC (either in its current form or some other alternative) is something that is absolutely necessary for bowling.  A governing body is essential for maintaining consistency in the sport.  Without some sort of organization putting forth the effort of establishing rules and guidelines, the sport would collapse and bowling alleys would become nothing more than arcade type venues and eventually disappear into obscurity.

The USBC is not a perfect organization, but there really is no perfect organization.  The biggest issue I have with sanctioned bowling is the lack of officiating/referees.  Each and every league night I bowl the rules are being broken, or people simply don't know the rules of the game and make it up as they go along.  League officers don't want to ruffle any feathers, and the bowling proprietors don't want to irritate customers and lose any...so people get away with murder.  I would be all for USBC requiring referees to patrol the lanes during leagues to enforce the rules.  They could be volunteers, or people that get paid minimum wage to be at the lanes during league times to help settle rules issues.  A rotating schedule would ensure that several people get a chance to be a ref and not the same people each night.  A very small increase in lineage by the center would easily cover the expense for these officials.  It would be a presence the USBC doesn't currently have at the grass roots level and a reminder that they are out there in force.


morpheus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 595
Re: Is bowling going to be R.I.P. soon
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2016, 09:07:40 AM »
It's amusing to hear people talk about how great youth bowling is doing when total membership has been in a free fall for decades. I guess it has to bottom out somewhere and at roughly 1.7 million members maybe we are getting close. Ignoring local association tournaments for a moment, we've been told about national USBC tournaments being self sufficient, however, I suspect if tournament side of the business were actually charged back for all the technology and human resources they utilized you would find membership  dollars supporting those events and would likely be much less profitable. The reality is the USBC will have to continue raising dues indefinitely because there are no signs of growth and they keep doing the same lame programs/marketing that have done exactly nothing for years. USBC as it exists today is a complete disaster and just like spmcgivern suggested...I am voting with my wallet if the increase is approved because it's a complete waste of financial resources to give this incompetent organization more money without a plan that holds leadership accountable for results.
#AFutureForMembership #WhoDoesUSBCWorkFor

milorafferty

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11153
  • I have a name, therefore no preferred pronouns.
Re: Is bowling going to be R.I.P. soon
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2016, 09:21:52 AM »
It's amusing to hear people talk about how great youth bowling is doing when total membership has been in a free fall for decades. I guess it has to bottom out somewhere and at roughly 1.7 million members maybe we are getting close. Ignoring local association tournaments for a moment, we've been told about national USBC tournaments being self sufficient, however, I suspect if tournament side of the business were actually charged back for all the technology and human resources they utilized you would find membership  dollars supporting those events and would likely be much less profitable. The reality is the USBC will have to continue raising dues indefinitely because there are no signs of growth and they keep doing the same lame programs/marketing that have done exactly nothing for years. USBC as it exists today is a complete disaster and just like spmcgivern suggested...I am voting with my wallet if the increase is approved because it's a complete waste of financial resources to give this incompetent organization more money without a plan that holds leadership accountable for results.

What would you do differently?
"If guns kill people, do pencils misspell words?"

"If you don't stand for our flag, then don't expect me to give a damn about your feelings."

spmcgivern

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2079
Re: Is bowling going to be R.I.P. soon
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2016, 10:03:35 AM »
Maybe league participation has gone down for youth bowling.  I don't have any concrete data one way or the other.  But it has been harped on and on how the sport of bowling has a bunch of old fogies who will be leaving the sport and then it will die.  Less youth league bowlers means less future league bowlers....

But when I was young, most of the youth I bowled with didn't really care about the actual competition.  They were interested in other sports also and those usually won out in the end.  What I care about for the future of the sport of bowling is the number of youth who want to bowl competitively.  Youth who want to continue and bowl in adult leagues.  We do have some numbers that show those numbers increasing, and by a lot.

In 2011, Junior Gold had 1,647 participants.  In 2015, there were 3,190 participants for a 94% increase in Junior Gold participation.  I like the sound of that.

In 2009, the Youth Open Championships had 3,493 separate entries in Team, Doubles, Singles and All Events.  Obviously there weren't 3,493 bowlers, but the number of entries is quite high.  In 2015, there were 6,653 separate entries in Team, Doubles, Singles and All Events for a 90% increase in participation.  Again, that is pretty good.  And even better, there were twice as many participating as a scratch entry as compared to handicap.

The youth bowler of today wants to compete at the highest level.  The youth bowler of today wants to compete on conditions tougher than the typical adult bowler.  The youth bowler of today is the future of the sport of bowling.

morpheus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 595
Re: Is bowling going to be R.I.P. soon
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2016, 10:51:15 AM »
It's amusing to hear people talk about how great youth bowling is doing when total membership has been in a free fall for decades. I guess it has to bottom out somewhere and at roughly 1.7 million members maybe we are getting close. Ignoring local association tournaments for a moment, we've been told about national USBC tournaments being self sufficient, however, I suspect if tournament side of the business were actually charged back for all the technology and human resources they utilized you would find membership  dollars supporting those events and would likely be much less profitable. The reality is the USBC will have to continue raising dues indefinitely because there are no signs of growth and they keep doing the same lame programs/marketing that have done exactly nothing for years. USBC as it exists today is a complete disaster and just like spmcgivern suggested...I am voting with my wallet if the increase is approved because it's a complete waste of financial resources to give this incompetent organization more money without a plan that holds leadership accountable for results.

What would you do differently?

First and foremost, we need transparency into current financial budgets and the real cost of programs which Mr. Murphy has consistently been unwilling to provide likely because members might not like where dollars are really being spent. The USBC is a membership organization so when they are not transparent with the members they supposedly serve, I'm going to assume they are hiding something.

1. Is the USBC paying for employees to attend the Open Championships?
2. How much money is being spent this year to send delegates all expense paid to attend the convention in hopes they will vote yes to an increase? (Mr. Murphy has been asked this question on multiple occasions and declined to answer)
3. Are they going to sponsor delegates every year or just this year in an attempt to influence the vote?
4. According to Mr. Murphy, technology costs are the single biggest expense for the organization so how much of that budget is for technology used to support tournaments?

Second, if they want more money, outline how the additional funds will be spent, how that translates into growing or retaining membership and who's accountable for the success or failure of these investments. If there were plan in place with accountability, I'd pay $50 a year, but they want membership to pony up more money just because they need it?

Third, I think the tournament side of the organization should be a separate organization since it's "self sustaining" and should not be the responsibility of the governing body of the sport.

I realize none of this is going to happen and there will be a steady stream of USBC apologists saying it's only $5, but that really isn't the point.
#AFutureForMembership #WhoDoesUSBCWorkFor

AMF300bowler

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 155
Re: Is bowling going to be R.I.P. soon
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2016, 11:34:06 AM »
The average age of the bowlers in my 3 leagues is at least 55. When they are done in say 10 years, what happen to the league. As a youth coach, I only see about 20% of the kids moving on to adult leagues. This won't help replace these retiring bowlers.
Balls: Motiv Forza GT, Motiv Primal Rage Remix, Motiv Ascent Pearl and Motiv (On The Ball) spare ball.. All made in the USA.

big_bg

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 131
Re: Is bowling going to be R.I.P. soon
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2016, 11:50:02 AM »
The difficulty with expecting kids to move up to adult leagues is that life often gets in the way. I bowled from about 4 years old until 18 but then went away for school and then started working it just wasn't conducive to bowling. I came back this year after about 10 years as I have a bit more time and have the money to easily get to bowling and play at a decent level. There's a number of younger guys in my league who have returned now that they're a bit older. I don't see people stopping bowling at 65, there's guys in my league who are 90 and many over 70, they may not be great anymore but they still pay their dues and fill the lanes, most bowl more games a week then I do.

avabob

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2778
Re: Is bowling going to be R.I.P. soon
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2016, 11:58:55 AM »
What many people do not fully understand is that the original model for bowling with a dues paying membership of 10 million bowlers was not sustainable.  In addition, bowling centers grew up as privately owned for profit investments as opposed to golf that grew with municipal subsidized operations.  When golf tried to expand in a profit oriented direction teaming new courses up with housing developments, the fallout was more golf course closing during the economic downturn than has been the case for bowling. 

There is nothing wrong with bowling centers going in the direction of being primarily entertainment centers.  The important thing is that proprietors understand and accept that the niche of competitive bowling is valuable and important to them even if not the highest profit aspect of their operation.