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Author Topic: is this method not used so much today?  (Read 13703 times)

xrayjay

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is this method not used so much today?
« on: January 09, 2015, 07:10:24 PM »
hitting up or "fingering" the ball at release.

In the old days hittig up or lifting up at release point was the norm. But now, many

coaches teach not to do this at release. Rather to let the ball roll off the hand.

But again, there are those who still believe in this method of hitting up.

It's just interesting to know what you guys/gals think.....

To hit up or not to hit up....or do both.....

Does a round object have sides? I say yes, pizza has triangles..

aka addik since 2003

 

bergman

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Re: is this method not used so much today?
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2015, 08:04:29 PM »
Exactly.

Ken De Beasto

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Re: is this method not used so much today?
« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2015, 10:29:46 PM »
sorry im confused. but im really interested in this topic. I myself am not sure what type of bowler i am now. I know that i get my thumb out first then my fingers last and i do a finger lift wit my fingers. i also do the cock/uncock stuff for sport shots etc. so what would i be considered??? i thought old school way was to throw a hand shake or something like that.

northface28

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Re: is this method not used so much today?
« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2015, 11:05:31 PM »
Best way I can describe is the swing has a V shape when you hit up on it, when you don't the swing is more like a U shape.
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JustRico

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Re: is this method not used so much today?
« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2015, 11:08:53 PM »
I'd go more extreme than that with a V or U to a side ways J with the long portion the 'follow thru' and not follow up
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avabob

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Re: is this method not used so much today?
« Reply #20 on: January 10, 2015, 11:24:28 PM »
The reason hitting up on the ball is not so effective in todays environment is that it causes a trade off between speed and revs unless you are super strong.  Lifting and hitting up on the ball creates revs at the expense of ball speed.  With so much friction on the lanes down lane, the loss in ball speed is much less effective.  By creating rev rate at the bottom without hitting up it is possible to maximize revs and still have good ball speed. 

As a classic stroker who posted and hit up on the ball, I was able to increase my rev rate from 225 to 300 without losing ball speed when I finally perfected the so called less is more release that emphasized using the arm swing to create both revs and speed at the bottom.

Ken De Beasto

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Re: is this method not used so much today?
« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2015, 02:06:36 AM »
well maybe i am imagining this wrong. what do you guys mean by hitting up?? like for example sean rash style, is that not hitting up? his finger is lifting the balls to spin. or is hitting up like cupping the ball then uncupping like yoyo.

Im also confused by the other guy said about swing being a v or u or j. are we talking about bending the elbow now.

xrayjay

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Re: is this method not used so much today?
« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2015, 03:36:52 AM »
Harry smith....that "J" shape swing....very little flat spot, I think this is a sample of the "v" and/or "J" swings.. Modern is longer flat spot... 12:40 slo mo is great

http://youtu.be/1uWLFEUHl1M

« Last Edit: January 11, 2015, 03:41:26 AM by xrayjay »
Does a round object have sides? I say yes, pizza has triangles..

aka addik since 2003

Juggernaut

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Re: is this method not used so much today?
« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2015, 07:11:21 AM »
Ken De Beasto,

 A lot of how the shape is created is about the timing of the release.  " Hitting up" on the ball simply means that you have learned a "late" release timing, and are imparting the revolutions to the ball AFTER it has reached the bottom of the swing and has started back up.

 Ever played any slow pitch softball?  Imagine the difference in the pitchers release it would take to go from a high arcing pitch, to literally rolling the ball across the plate.  In the high arcing pitch, he would stay with the ball longer, and release it on the upswing, and in the rolling pitch, he would release it sooner, before he got into the upswing.

 Back in the day, hitting up on the ball was not such a no-no. Balls weren't nearly as strong, and weren't going to greatly magnify little release inconsistencies the way reactive resin balls can. Back then missing it just a bit, or grabbing a handful, was the difference in a light swisher and a solid flush strike. Now days, it can be the difference between a washout and a runaway Brooklyn shot.


 Throwing my old Black Hammer, you could leave a 5-7 or an 8-10 at anytime if you didn't "get all of it" at the bottom of the swing. That is one of the reasons it is hard for us "old school" guys to adjust to the modern release. Everything about it feels "weak and wrong" because that is the way we used to throw "bad" shots and leave unmakeable spares that ruined good games. What is taught today as "good" and acceptable ( such as forward tilt or dropping your shoulder) was drilled into us as "bad" and un-acceptable, because it created "weak" shots back then. With those older balls, you needed all the leverage you could get.
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JustRico

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Re: is this method not used so much today?
« Reply #24 on: January 11, 2015, 08:08:50 AM »
Great explanation Jugger
Also part of releases are dictated by the environmental influences-rubber, plastic and urethane all bled energy differently as well as the surfaces were 'softer' so a later response release or delaying the bleed...
In the older environments, as was stated, you needed to manipulate the bowling ball to react more pronounced down the lane to create hitting power, thus the more upright release motion...
Today because the environment dictates a more steeped condition or a harder, slicker surface at times and cleaner cover type bowling balls, rolling the ball off your hand similar to landing an airplane creates a smoother front to back (foul line to pin deck) reaction or response...and more controllable
Pre-resin era acceleration on the upswing or in front of the bowler...now a days, the acceleration is before the ankle but with a softer hand
Also as stated previously, hand positions have changed at release...because of the equipment characteristics, being more on the side of the ball or with the hand on the outside at release to enhance the side angle rotation
With today's environment, in creating reaction with a softer hand, the emphasis is having the hand more on the inside of the ball with a stronger wrist position and uncoiling it thru out the bottom of the swing, similar to rolling the soft ball and letting the hand rotate around the bowling ball's equator while still lifting up
Instead of the fingers impacting the release at a quicker singular instance it's now more of a longer fluid impact combined with the wrist position
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bergman

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Re: is this method not used so much today?
« Reply #25 on: January 11, 2015, 11:51:35 AM »
Good explanations Jugger & Rico. Many "old-schoolers" were never able to make this
important transition in release styles, including some HOF PBA members. I was fortunate enough to have taken several lessons in years past with John Jowdy and Bill Hall. Both were very big on the importance of creating that flat spot at release.
Just Rico calls it the "j" . Bill Hall similarly categorized it as a "long-shank fishhook"
shape, with the shank parallel to the lane surface. What was especially interesting was Jowdy's comment to me that he always taught this type of release, even in the pre-resin days. He said that in those days, bowlers indeed, had to provide extra "hit" at the release but he felt that in those days, the "hitting" motion was more effective
when it was directed parallel to the lane surface. He said Earl Anthony always liked to imagine that his hand was "goosing" the ball all the way down the lane, chasing
it with his hand.

In addition, Bill Hall believes that by creating that flat spot with the hand, you allow
your thumb more time to efficiently exit the ball and allow the fingers to impart
maximum rotation. In contrast, with the "v" shape release, the thumb has to
exit right at the bottom of the "v" to produce similar results---not much margin for error.
I used to really hit up on the ball and I had major problems making the transition.
Bill used to tell me to, "be soft, create that little flat spot at release and get out of the ball's way!"  It really does work.
 

JustRico

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Re: is this method not used so much today?
« Reply #26 on: January 11, 2015, 12:01:59 PM »
Many of us have taught this for years....and as Asher once told me - if you wanna visualize the flat spot, possibly one if the best olde timers was Don Carter
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bergman

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Re: is this method not used so much today?
« Reply #27 on: January 11, 2015, 01:47:33 PM »
True. Asher did it very well, too.

JustRico

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Re: is this method not used so much today?
« Reply #28 on: January 11, 2015, 01:56:51 PM »
Asher 'does' a lot of things right (:
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Ken De Beasto

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Re: is this method not used so much today?
« Reply #29 on: January 11, 2015, 08:30:34 PM »
Ok once again sorry imma rookie still trying picture this. So the old school way is to finger lift the ball with a late release thus causing something like lofting??? or am i picturing it wrong still. still not sure what you guys mean by j, v swings looks like a swing to me back n forth haha.

vid of me bowling a while back not sure if imma oldschool
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnosNPt-kt0

Aloarjr810

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Re: is this method not used so much today?
« Reply #30 on: January 11, 2015, 08:53:47 PM »
Ok once again sorry imma rookie still trying picture this. So the old school way is to finger lift the ball with a late release thus causing something like lofting??? or am i picturing it wrong still. still not sure what you guys mean by j, v swings looks like a swing to me back n forth haha.

vid of me bowling a while back not sure if imma oldschool
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnosNPt-kt0

White line is your arm swing if you don’t create a flat spot at the bottom (the old school following through toward the ceiling). Do it and you'll most likely will be hitting up on the ball.

Black line is creating the flat spot (following through toward the pins), This does not mean to cut your follow-through off abruptly, just don’t jerk up with it as the ball leaves the hand.


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