Author Topic: Length of oil (Read 4808 times)

thedjs · « **on:** October 06, 2009, 03:25:27 AM »

What would be the normal length of the oil for a typical "house shot"? At out house it's 42 feet which the manager says is typical. To me it seems a little long.

Thanks for the help.

Pinhammer · « **Reply #16 on:** October 06, 2009, 02:24:16 PM »

Depending on the type of surface. High friction lanes such as wood or gaurdian with alot of wear, 42' is not uncommon but HPL or Anvilane it would seem long if there is alot of oil. We use the 41ft Kegel Main St. pattern. We have some good scores on this shot.
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Roger Carroll
Pinnacle Pro Shop
Clarksville, TN

kmanestor22 · « **Reply #17 on:** October 06, 2009, 02:28:51 PM »

quote:
Sorry K but I don't believe I am mistaken. PBA patterns are slightly buffed yes, maybe a foot or 2, but nothing like a house shot. Hence why you see a lot of the pros a lot more up the back of the ball than you're typical house bowlers, so they can control the reaction at the end of the pattern.

The point I was making is 42 feet is 42 feet, it's just where the buffer picks up. I fully understand that house patterns are buffed for a longer distance most of the time. I was a lane man for 9 years and was the go-to guy in the area for lane conditioning questions. There were PBA patterns that only put a few passes of oil out and buffed much longer than a house pattern. This doesn't necessarily equate to easier conditions.
--------------------
Where is the bait? I'm goin' to jail!!! - Chocolate GAYzer

Dan Belcher · « **Reply #18 on:** October 06, 2009, 02:34:49 PM »

Fine, I had to look up the technical definition because I apparently used the wrong word (and so does my lane man at my house apparently!). A better way to describe then to keep you happy is that the oil is "blended" on the outside of a house shot much lighter downlane compared to the inside where it's more even from front to back. My point still stands, even if it isn't the result of the machine buffing out the very end of the pattern. And you can't "officially boot" me from any conversation here, so "nah nah nah nah nah"

kmanestor22 · « **Reply #19 on:** October 06, 2009, 02:39:03 PM »

quote:
Fine, I had to look up the technical definition because I apparently used the wrong word (and so does my lane man at my house apparently!). A better way to describe then to keep you happy is that the oil is "blended" on the outside of a house shot much lighter downlane compared to the inside where it's more even from front to back. My point still stands, even if it isn't the result of the machine buffing out the very end of the pattern. And you can't "officially boot" me from any conversation here, so "nah nah nah nah nah"

You still don't understand. There is less oil outside because they applied less oil outside. Buffing doesn't make it that way. Buffing creates a downlane taper, that's it.
--------------------
Where is the bait? I'm goin' to jail!!! - Chocolate GAYzer

NoseofRI · « **Reply #20 on:** October 06, 2009, 02:44:15 PM »

quote:
quote:
Sorry K but I don't believe I am mistaken. PBA patterns are slightly buffed yes, maybe a foot or 2, but nothing like a house shot. Hence why you see a lot of the pros a lot more up the back of the ball than you're typical house bowlers, so they can control the reaction at the end of the pattern.

The point I was making is 42 feet is 42 feet, it's just where the buffer picks up. I fully understand that house patterns are buffed for a longer distance most of the time. I was a lane man for 9 years and was the go-to guy in the area for lane conditioning questions. There were PBA patterns that only put a few passes of oil out and buffed much longer than a house pattern. This doesn't necessarily equate to easier conditions.
--------------------
Where is the bait? I'm goin' to jail!!! - Chocolate GAYzer

So you agree with what I was saying but I was mistaken?
See the problem there is that if that "PBA" pattern was buffed out longer than house patterns that it wasn't laid down by the numbers. And 42' is not 42'. A 42' PBA pattern plays NOTHING like a 42' THS. On the house shot the ball still picks up around 34-36ft which is typically where the buff starts. A 42' PBA pattern is just that, the pattern goes 42' and stops. On house shots even though its 42' this pattern is typically run to 34-38ft and then buffed out to 42'. The buffing is what evens the pattern out which is why I said the more buff the easier the condition. Now yes on PBA patterns they do have a buff zone, but this is typically incorporated into the way the pattern is laid down to make it play a certain way. (This last sentence is straight from the lane man for the PBA East Region). I don't know you said I was completely mistaken so maybe I used "buffed out" in the wrong way and should have said "blended"?
Just curious "go-to guy."

Dan Belcher · « **Reply #21 on:** October 06, 2009, 02:54:55 PM »

quote:
quote:
Fine, I had to look up the technical definition because I apparently used the wrong word (and so does my lane man at my house apparently!). A better way to describe then to keep you happy is that the oil is "blended" on the outside of a house shot much lighter downlane compared to the inside where it's more even from front to back. My point still stands, even if it isn't the result of the machine buffing out the very end of the pattern. And you can't "officially boot" me from any conversation here, so "nah nah nah nah nah"

You still don't understand. There is less oil outside because they applied less oil outside. Buffing doesn't make it that way. Buffing creates a downlane taper, that's it.
--------------------
Where is the bait? I'm goin' to jail!!! - Chocolate GAYzer

The level of oil at 10 feet outside is much, much higher than the amount at 30 feet on the same board. On the inside part of the lane, there's only slightly less oil at 30 feet than at 10 feet on the inside part of the lane. That's why I said I used the wrong word. Yes, that's not technically buff. But that explains why the ball hooks so early and smoothly when you get it outside even though the pattern is technically 42 feet compared to a PBA shot where the same length, even if it's not a heavy volume of oil, plays longer. That's my only point. I just used the wrong word initially.

kmanestor22 · « **Reply #22 on:** October 06, 2009, 02:58:15 PM »

quote:
quote:
quote:
Sorry K but I don't believe I am mistaken. PBA patterns are slightly buffed yes, maybe a foot or 2, but nothing like a house shot. Hence why you see a lot of the pros a lot more up the back of the ball than you're typical house bowlers, so they can control the reaction at the end of the pattern.

The point I was making is 42 feet is 42 feet, it's just where the buffer picks up. I fully understand that house patterns are buffed for a longer distance most of the time. I was a lane man for 9 years and was the go-to guy in the area for lane conditioning questions. There were PBA patterns that only put a few passes of oil out and buffed much longer than a house pattern. This doesn't necessarily equate to easier conditions.
--------------------
Where is the bait? I'm goin' to jail!!! - Chocolate GAYzer

So you agree with what I was saying but I was mistaken?
See the problem there is that if that "PBA" pattern was buffed out longer than house patterns that it wasn't laid down by the numbers. And 42' is not 42'. A 42' PBA pattern plays NOTHING like a 42' THS. On the house shot the ball still picks up around 34-36ft which is typically where the buff starts. A 42' PBA pattern is just that, the pattern goes 42' and stops. On house shots even though its 42' this pattern is typically run to 34-38ft and then buffed out to 42'. The buffing is what evens the pattern out which is why I said the more buff the easier the condition. Now yes on PBA patterns they do have a buff zone, but this is typically incorporated into the way the pattern is laid down to make it play a certain way. (This last sentence is straight from the lane man for the PBA East Region). I don't know you said I was completely mistaken so maybe I used "buffed out" in the wrong way and should have said "blended"?
Just curious "go-to guy."

42' IS 42'. It is not 36' or 39' or 45'. Just because the ball starts to react before the pattern distance, doesn't make that distance the pattern distance. That is completely intentional. The lack of buff distance is NOT the primary factor that makes PBA patterns difficult. The ratio of oil per board in the center versus the outside boards makes it easy or difficult. Buffing, along with machine speed, sets the downlane taper. While changing the buffing distance with alter the amount of oil that gets downlane, it won't change the board to board ratio much.
--------------------
Where is the bait? I'm goin' to jail!!! - Chocolate GAYzer

kmanestor22 · « **Reply #23 on:** October 06, 2009, 03:09:14 PM »

quote:
quote:
quote:
Fine, I had to look up the technical definition because I apparently used the wrong word (and so does my lane man at my house apparently!). A better way to describe then to keep you happy is that the oil is "blended" on the outside of a house shot much lighter downlane compared to the inside where it's more even from front to back. My point still stands, even if it isn't the result of the machine buffing out the very end of the pattern. And you can't "officially boot" me from any conversation here, so "nah nah nah nah nah"

You still don't understand. There is less oil outside because they applied less oil outside. Buffing doesn't make it that way. Buffing creates a downlane taper, that's it.
--------------------
Where is the bait? I'm goin' to jail!!! - Chocolate GAYzer
The level of oil at 10 feet outside is much, much higher than the amount at 30 feet on the same board. On the inside part of the lane, there's only slightly less oil at 30 feet than at 10 feet on the inside part of the lane. That's why I said I used the wrong word. Yes, that's not technically buff. But that explains why the ball hooks so early and smoothly when you get it outside even though the pattern is technically 42 feet compared to a PBA shot where the same length, even if it's not a heavy volume of oil, plays longer. That's my only point. I just used the wrong word initially.

Ok. The first part is correct. A PBA shot that is 42 feet plays longer than a house shot at 42 feet ON THE OUTSIDE. That is because of the board to board ratio, not the buffing distance. Say your PBA buffline has 30 units 10-10 and 15 units outside, blended evenly. Also, your house pattern has 30 units 10-10 and 5 units outside, shaped more like a top hat. The patterns will react identically inside of ten. The ball will react dramatically different outside of ten.
--------------------
Where is the bait? I'm goin' to jail!!! - Chocolate GAYzer

mmcfarland300 · « **Reply #24 on:** October 06, 2009, 03:09:58 PM »

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Sorry K but I don't believe I am mistaken. PBA patterns are slightly buffed yes, maybe a foot or 2, but nothing like a house shot. Hence why you see a lot of the pros a lot more up the back of the ball than you're typical house bowlers, so they can control the reaction at the end of the pattern.

The point I was making is 42 feet is 42 feet, it's just where the buffer picks up. I fully understand that house patterns are buffed for a longer distance most of the time. I was a lane man for 9 years and was the go-to guy in the area for lane conditioning questions. There were PBA patterns that only put a few passes of oil out and buffed much longer than a house pattern. This doesn't necessarily equate to easier conditions.
--------------------
Where is the bait? I'm goin' to jail!!! - Chocolate GAYzer

So you agree with what I was saying but I was mistaken?
See the problem there is that if that "PBA" pattern was buffed out longer than house patterns that it wasn't laid down by the numbers. And 42' is not 42'. A 42' PBA pattern plays NOTHING like a 42' THS. On the house shot the ball still picks up around 34-36ft which is typically where the buff starts. A 42' PBA pattern is just that, the pattern goes 42' and stops. On house shots even though its 42' this pattern is typically run to 34-38ft and then buffed out to 42'. The buffing is what evens the pattern out which is why I said the more buff the easier the condition. Now yes on PBA patterns they do have a buff zone, but this is typically incorporated into the way the pattern is laid down to make it play a certain way. (This last sentence is straight from the lane man for the PBA East Region). I don't know you said I was completely mistaken so maybe I used "buffed out" in the wrong way and should have said "blended"?
Just curious "go-to guy."

42' IS 42'. It is not 36' or 39' or 45'. Just because the ball starts to react before the pattern distance, doesn't make that distance the pattern distance. That is completely intentional. The lack of buff distance is NOT the primary factor that makes PBA patterns difficult. The ratio of oil per board in the center versus the outside boards makes it easy or difficult. Buffing, along with machine speed, sets the downlane taper. While changing the buffing distance with alter the amount of oil that gets downlane, it won't change the board to board ratio much.
--------------------
Where is the bait? I'm goin' to jail!!! - Chocolate GAYzer

So then Special K you are saying that a 42' house shot is oiled to 42' your words. Wrong answer you are now booted from the conversation.
--------------------
"Another day will bring a different result"
"Pick your battles because stressing over things will not change an outcome"

kmanestor22 · « **Reply #25 on:** October 06, 2009, 03:15:16 PM »

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Sorry K but I don't believe I am mistaken. PBA patterns are slightly buffed yes, maybe a foot or 2, but nothing like a house shot. Hence why you see a lot of the pros a lot more up the back of the ball than you're typical house bowlers, so they can control the reaction at the end of the pattern.

The point I was making is 42 feet is 42 feet, it's just where the buffer picks up. I fully understand that house patterns are buffed for a longer distance most of the time. I was a lane man for 9 years and was the go-to guy in the area for lane conditioning questions. There were PBA patterns that only put a few passes of oil out and buffed much longer than a house pattern. This doesn't necessarily equate to easier conditions.
--------------------
Where is the bait? I'm goin' to jail!!! - Chocolate GAYzer

So you agree with what I was saying but I was mistaken?
See the problem there is that if that "PBA" pattern was buffed out longer than house patterns that it wasn't laid down by the numbers. And 42' is not 42'. A 42' PBA pattern plays NOTHING like a 42' THS. On the house shot the ball still picks up around 34-36ft which is typically where the buff starts. A 42' PBA pattern is just that, the pattern goes 42' and stops. On house shots even though its 42' this pattern is typically run to 34-38ft and then buffed out to 42'. The buffing is what evens the pattern out which is why I said the more buff the easier the condition. Now yes on PBA patterns they do have a buff zone, but this is typically incorporated into the way the pattern is laid down to make it play a certain way. (This last sentence is straight from the lane man for the PBA East Region). I don't know you said I was completely mistaken so maybe I used "buffed out" in the wrong way and should have said "blended"?
Just curious "go-to guy."

42' IS 42'. It is not 36' or 39' or 45'. Just because the ball starts to react before the pattern distance, doesn't make that distance the pattern distance. That is completely intentional. The lack of buff distance is NOT the primary factor that makes PBA patterns difficult. The ratio of oil per board in the center versus the outside boards makes it easy or difficult. Buffing, along with machine speed, sets the downlane taper. While changing the buffing distance with alter the amount of oil that gets downlane, it won't change the board to board ratio much.
--------------------
Where is the bait? I'm goin' to jail!!! - Chocolate GAYzer

So then Special K you are saying that a 42' house shot is oiled to 42' your words. Wrong answer you are now booted from the conversation.
--------------------
"Another day will bring a different result"
"Pick your battles because stressing over things will not change an outcome"

I am an expert in this matter. If you are going to argue with me, you better use the correct terminology. Instead of arguing something than you do not do for a living with someone who is obviously an expert in his field, why don't you take advantage of this fact and ask me a question? I can talk down to you if you don't understand what I am saying.
--------------------
Where is the bait? I'm goin' to jail!!! - Chocolate GAYzer

lenstanles703 · « **Reply #26 on:** October 06, 2009, 03:15:42 PM »

40 feet at my house. Sanded and refinished the lanes over the summer. Can't use pearl anymore,playing up the 9 with a solid (New Breed).
--------------------
"We are all one"
Visionary test staff member

mmcfarland300 · « **Reply #27 on:** October 06, 2009, 03:23:09 PM »

This is awesome Special K can Figjam about Lane Oil thats rich. Hey there don't hurt your arm patting yourself on the back, you might not be able to lift your machine after oiling.
--------------------
"Another day will bring a different result"
"Pick your battles because stressing over things will not change an outcome"

kmanestor22 · « **Reply #28 on:** October 06, 2009, 03:26:50 PM »

quote:
This is awesome Special K can Figjam about Lane Oil thats rich. Hey there don't hurt your arm patting yourself on the back, you might not be able to lift your machine after oiling.
--------------------
"Another day will bring a different result"
"Pick your battles because stressing over things will not change an outcome"

Flame all you want. End of the day: I give insight. You're just a flamer.
--------------------
Where is the bait? I'm goin' to jail!!! - Chocolate GAYzer

mmcfarland300 · « **Reply #29 on:** October 06, 2009, 03:38:27 PM »

quote:
quote:
This is awesome Special K can Figjam about Lane Oil thats rich. Hey there don't hurt your arm patting yourself on the back, you might not be able to lift your machine after oiling.
--------------------
"Another day will bring a different result"
"Pick your battles because stressing over things will not change an outcome"

Flame all you want. End of the day: I give insight. You're just a flamer.
--------------------
Where is the bait? I'm goin' to jail!!! - Chocolate GAYzer

Special K maybe you meant you think you give insight. Ask your butty about being a flamer not sure what you meant.
--------------------
"Another day will bring a different result"
"Pick your battles because stressing over things will not change an outcome"

NoseofRI · « **Reply #30 on:** October 06, 2009, 03:58:25 PM »

quote:

42'' IS 42''. It is not 36'' or 39'' or 45''. Just because the ball starts to react before the pattern distance, doesn''t make that distance the pattern distance. That is completely intentional. The lack of buff distance is NOT the primary factor that makes PBA patterns difficult. The ratio of oil per board in the center versus the outside boards makes it easy or difficult. Buffing, along with machine speed, sets the downlane taper. While changing the buffing distance with alter the amount of oil that gets downlane, it won''t change the board to board ratio much.
--------------------
Where is the bait? I''m goin'' to jail!!! - Chocolate GAYzer

I''m not argueing the difficulty of the patterns, I''m pointing out the way the ball reads the pattern front to back. My point is that on PBA patterns 42'' means the pattern goes out to 42'' and stops. On THS the pattern is blended/buffed, whatever you want to call it, to 42'', hence them not being the same 42''. So what I mean by the is that there''s a difference between where the pattern ends and where the oil line ends. On a house shot the "pattern," be it a top hat, christmas tree or what have you is only oiled to about that 36ft range and then blended out to 42ft. And yes I was mistaken originally by using buffed. My original point was to simply explain/correct what everyone was originally saying about a typical house pattern just being a certain distance and that''s it. Because that is just flat out incorrect.

Edited on 10/6/2009 4:00 PM

Author Topic: Length of oil (Read 4808 times)

thedjs

Length of oil

Pinhammer

Re: Length of oil

kmanestor22

Re: Length of oil

Dan Belcher

Re: Length of oil

kmanestor22

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NoseofRI

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Dan Belcher

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kmanestor22

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kmanestor22

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mmcfarland300

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kmanestor22

Re: Length of oil

lenstanles703

Re: Length of oil

mmcfarland300

Re: Length of oil

kmanestor22

Re: Length of oil

mmcfarland300

Re: Length of oil

NoseofRI

Re: Length of oil