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Author Topic: streched span vs relaxed span  (Read 18623 times)

hotshot187

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streched span vs relaxed span
« on: July 16, 2006, 12:25:22 PM »
Can somebody explain the differences and why would chose one over the other?


Thanks,

Doug
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CoachJim

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Re: streched span vs relaxed span
« Reply #46 on: September 21, 2006, 05:15:53 PM »
quote:
I've used a slightly stretched span for years and felt really comfortable with it as it felt as though my thumb was "locked" in position thus eliminating the 'thought/feel' of gripping the ball. Now I'm using a shorter/relaxed grip and to be honest, the feel of knuckling/gripping the ball has become a problem. Apparently more emphasis is placed upon a much tighter thumb fit. Only callus (small) I developed was at the base of the palm side of my thumb which a bevel fixed (refering to the slightly stretched span). Now, I find myself adjusting with tape and other stuff to make a snug fit and having to worry about clearing as well. I'm going back to my slightly stretched span. felt better, and the release was more consistent


Did you increase the forward pitch in the thumb? More forward pitch eliminates the need to squeeze. I am at 1/2" forward pitch in my thumb.
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CoachJim

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Re: streched span vs relaxed span
« Reply #47 on: September 21, 2006, 05:23:35 PM »
quote:
Especially of the top guys...stretched...no...full fingertip I think more than we realize


LL, lets make sure we are talking about the same things, do me a favor and describe the difference between the fitting of a relaxed, full and stretched grip, ie where the leading edge of the finger holes hits the fingers when they are laid across the holes with the thumb in the ball.

I just want to make sure we are all talking about the same grip measurements and not just calling them by different names.

To me a stretched grip has the edge of the finger hole hitting at the crease of the first knuckle, a relaxed grip has the holes half way between the first and second knuckle, not sure what a full grip is I am guessing somewhere in between.
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LuckyLefty

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Re: streched span vs relaxed span
« Reply #48 on: September 22, 2006, 09:22:08 AM »
Coach

I listed it above...

Your relaxed is my full.  My definition of relaxed is last joint almost to back of hole.

1)Stretched...last joint to front of hole when fingers stretched
2)Full...last joint when fingers stretched to middle of hole
3)Relaxed...last joint when fingers stretched near back of hole

REgards,

Luckylefty
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
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Brickguy221

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Re: streched span vs relaxed span
« Reply #49 on: September 22, 2006, 12:17:29 PM »
Which grip is more apt to cause a bowler to squeeze the ball....

Full?
Relaxed?
Stretched?

I know that pitches plays a part here also, but does one grip cause a bowler to maybe squeeze the ball a bit more than another?

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Brick
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CoachJim

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Re: streched span vs relaxed span
« Reply #50 on: September 22, 2006, 04:53:34 PM »
Your version of full is the same as my relaxed, so like I was thinking we were both talking about the samething, but calling it something different.

I have heard of Mo Pinnel drilling peoples grips with your version of a relaxed grip, I haven't seen anyone use that kind of grip before, or know what is involved with fitting it. I have heard of people having release and wrist problems with spans this short that weren't fitted properly (pitches etc).

I had to argue with my ball driller to get him to drill my grip at a "Full Grip", now he drills most everyone's grip that way. One local proshop drills them beyond stretched and it is a pain to try to coach someone with a grip like that so I usually send them to my ball driller to get their equipment fitted properly before we start lessons.

So back to the arguement about relaxed vs. stretched, I would bet that 90% of the pros use what you are calling a "Full" fingertip grip, thus I am agreeing with you.
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LuckyLefty

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Re: streched span vs relaxed span
« Reply #51 on: September 22, 2006, 05:08:38 PM »
I believe many amateurs are using more relaxed though!

As I stated...I see a lot of our locals with more relaxed.
I acknowledge possibly more revs from slightly more relaxed...but one seems to lose other qualities of our "full" style grip...that of stetching the ball to thebreakpoint!

I believe another important quality of a good grip!

Similar in way to a golf grip!  A thin grip (in relation to a persons hand)encourages lots of active hand action.  A grip than is larger than standard leads to a less handsy swing and maybe a fade.  (I believe analgous to a stretched span in bowling!

Somewhere in the middle in golf works for most in golf...I believe similar in bowling.  What I call full...and you call relaxed are a version somewhere in between stretched and relaxed and work for most.  Probably also combine the best characteristics of both.

The best practical(not theoretical) drillers I know.(ie lots of their bowlers seem to throw well.)  Seem to stretch the hand while in the thumb hole...and take 5/16 about off the length to the last joint in order to determine where the front lip of the hole is going to be!  This general rule seems to work for a lot of people!

REgards,

Luckylefty
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
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It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

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CoachJim

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Re: streched span vs relaxed span
« Reply #52 on: September 22, 2006, 10:25:49 PM »
The problem with the 5/16 less measurment is that some peoples fingers are longer or shorter than the standard, and from my experience you still need to put reverse pitch to clear the thumb in a span like that.

The modern theory of ball fitting is that it is easier to grip a baseball than a basket ball, with that being said it is easier to grip a ball with a shorter span and forward pitch in the thumb than stretching it and using reverse. Try it on a fitting ball in your proshop and see for yourself.
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LuckyLefty

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Re: streched span vs relaxed span
« Reply #53 on: September 22, 2006, 10:33:26 PM »
SO we may have a slight difference in our definitions...me saying full usually uses that 5/16 figure...I agree...longer fingers more...shorter fingers...less.

Your relaxed probably is slightly less than that instead of equaling...my full.

REgards,

Luckylefty
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
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It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

CoachJim

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Re: streched span vs relaxed span
« Reply #54 on: September 23, 2006, 06:17:27 AM »
quote:
Your relaxed probably is slightly less than that instead of equaling...my full.


That is correct, my relaxed is at or slightly less than center between the first and second knuckle.

I believe the 5/16 measurement stems from how to measure a conventional grip, old school ball drillers just used the same distance, but subtracted it from the first joint for a fingertip and from the second joint for a conventional grip.
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LuckyLefty

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Re: streched span vs relaxed span
« Reply #55 on: September 26, 2006, 09:26:27 AM »
In watching the ladies last night...I was convinced that I would classify super free armswinger Shannon Pluhowsky and Corolyn Dorin Ballard as full fingertip also.

Based on the way the fingers layed very flat on the ball and Carolyn's thumb postition as detailed by Track 300900 above...good point by the way.

While the majority of amateurs are going to relaxed fingertip it still seems quite a few top pros are still...somewhat full fingertip... as described above.

REgards,

Luckylefty
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
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It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

CPA

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Re: streched span vs relaxed span
« Reply #56 on: September 27, 2006, 09:54:17 PM »
I was fitted by Mo Pinel at a seminar last year.  My normal grip is a full fingertip.  Mo put me in a relaxed grip.  I have gone back and forth between these grips.  For me, I can't score as well with the relaxed grip.  The ball is comfortable, but the ball never wants to hook.  I definitely have fewer revs and a weaker hitting ball with the relaxed grip.
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