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Author Topic: My PAP  (Read 1822 times)

Zach M

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My PAP
« on: December 28, 2007, 04:17:56 PM »
I just got my PAP figured out today.  It's 5 and 1/8 away from center.  Is that a weird pin?  The guy at the pro shop said it was kind of odd.  Thanks,

Zach
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---The words fill my head
And fall to the floor
If God's on our side
He'll stop the next war.
--Bob Dylan
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pate08

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Re: My PAP
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2007, 12:21:36 AM »
Is it 5 and 1/8 over, or 5 over and 1/8 up or down?
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Super Trooper(2)
Action Max
The Rising
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Edited on 12/29/2007 1:21 AM
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Zach M

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Re: My PAP
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2007, 01:59:17 AM »
Sorry.  I really butchered that post.  It's 5" over and 1 5/8" down.  Thanks,

Zach
--------------------
---The words fill my head
And fall to the floor
If God's on our side
He'll stop the next war.
--Bob Dylan
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J_Mac

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Re: My PAP
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2007, 02:10:31 AM »
Inverted with a bunch of tilt I'd presume?
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"A word to the wise ain't necessary -- it's the stupid ones that need the advice."  Bill Cosby
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JohnP

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Re: My PAP
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2007, 08:20:26 PM »
Inverted, yes and strongly.  Lot of tilt?  Not likely with a 5" horizontal component.  Actually this is quite close to my PAP measurements. --  JohnP
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Inferno_256

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Re: My PAP
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2007, 09:24:08 PM »
an inverted track 1-5/8" down will read the same as a 1-5/8" up track
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Michael Makela
Thunder Bay, Ontario Canada
http://www.tenpin.org/ybc.html#no

www.mjbt.org
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Zach M

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Re: My PAP
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2007, 02:11:46 AM »
Thanks for the responces so far.  Sorry I sound like an idiot, but what does inverted track mean?  And what is the tilt you're talking about?  Thanks for all responces.  


Zach
--------------------
---The words fill my head
And fall to the floor
If God's on our side
He'll stop the next war.
--Bob Dylan
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Zach M

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Re: My PAP
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2007, 02:38:40 PM »
Chris:

This was very helpful.I definitely have tilt. I am quite a high tracker.  Thanks,

Zach
--------------------
---The words fill my head
And fall to the floor
If God's on our side
He'll stop the next war.
--Bob Dylan
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Inferno_256

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Re: My PAP
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2007, 03:41:23 PM »
quote:
    quote:an inverted track 1-5/8" down will read the same as a 1-5/8" up track
    --------------------
    Michael Makela
    Thunder Bay, Ontario Canada
    http://www.tenpin.org/ybc.html#no

    www.mjbt.org

Lol.. come on man.. if you don't know what your talking about don't comment.
My comment was a little exagerated.. but dude.. you are VERY VERY wrong in your comment.


Hold on now if you dont know what your talking about dont comment. 1-5/8" Down is the mirror image of 1-5/8" up therefore the track diameter is the exact same which means the same amount of fresh ball surface is exposed on every rotation. so how wouldn't they read the same?
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Michael Makela
Thunder Bay, Ontario Canada
http://www.tenpin.org/ybc.html#no

www.mjbt.org
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JohnP

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Re: My PAP
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2007, 03:43:58 PM »
quote:
Inverted track is when your PAP is down.. or another way is that your track is closer to your fingers than your thumb.
Tilt is when your PAP is up.. or when your track is closer to your thumb then your fingers.


You're right about the inverted track, but wrong about tilt.  Tilt has nothing to do with which way the track angles.  Tilt is strictly dependent on the diameter of the first track ring.  For details on how to measure track diameter and how it relates to tilt, go to the technical section at buddiesproshop.com.  There is a link to how to measure track diameter.  Then go the the section on asymmetrical drilling and you'll find a chart relating the diameter to tilt.

To visualize tilt, think of a bicycle's front wheel.  To turn the bike, you turn the wheel, that's axis rotation.  But you can also lean the bike over as you turn the wheel, the leaning is axis tilt.  --  JohnP
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shelley

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Re: My PAP
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2007, 04:57:14 PM »
quote:
Hold on now if you dont know what your talking about dont comment. 1-5/8" Down is the mirror image of 1-5/8" up therefore the track diameter is the exact same which means the same amount of fresh ball surface is exposed on every rotation. so how wouldn't they read the same?


The axis migration on the inverted track will be different than on the "normal" track.  The inverted track affects the midline (moves it up instead of down), so a 4" pin-to-PAP and 2" above the midline will put the pin in a different location on a ball for a bowler with an inverted track.  It will be in a different spot relative to the VAL (closer, I believe), and that will change all sorts of angles.

SH
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Inferno_256

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Re: My PAP
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2007, 08:39:23 PM »
No, PAP is only a spot relative to your midpoint, you can have a PAP of 3" over or 5" over and still have the exact same track diameter. Its important to understand that the your PAP is a location only used for measurement and drilling. Its your track diameter which is important for measuring tilt.
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Michael Makela
Thunder Bay, Ontario Canada
http://www.tenpin.org/ybc.html#no

www.mjbt.org
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Inferno_256

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Re: My PAP
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2007, 10:44:07 PM »
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hhsbowler

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Re: My PAP
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2007, 10:56:44 PM »
quote:
Measuring your track diameter doesn't determing your tilt!
 


Measuring track diameter has everything to do with axis tilt!
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Re-Evolution

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Re: My PAP
« Reply #14 on: December 31, 2007, 01:06:09 AM »
chris-m

JohnP is correct the vertical inclination of your PAP has nothing to do with the amount of tilt you have. Tilt is indeed found by measuring your track diameter.

Think of it this way if you release the ball in a pure roll the ball will roll over the entire circumference of the ball which is 27" or a 13.5" track diameter at the other extreme if you release the ball in a pure spin as in it is spinning like a top you will have a track diameter of 0".
For every inch less than 13.5 that your track diameter is equals 6 2/3°.

Examples: (13.5 - TD) x 6 2/3 = AT
13.5 - 13.5 = 0, 0 x 6 2/3 = 0° (full roller)
13.5 - 10.5 = 2, 2 x 6 2/3 = 13 1/3° (typical 3/4 roller)
13.5 - 0 = 13.5, 13.5 x 6 2/3 = 90°  (pure spinner)

Another way to think of it is like this:
A typical right handed full roller tracks to the left of the middle finger and to the right of the thumb or in other words he tracks between the the fingers and thumb. For this to happen there has to an angle between the track and the bridge line which would give a positive vertical axis coordinate, as in over 6.75 up 1.5. Yet a full roller has ZERO tilt hence the name FULL ROLLER.

By your definition of axis tilt anyone with a positive vertical axis coordinate would track on one half of the ball while anyone with a negative vertical axis coordinate would track on the opposite half of the ball. That is not what is meant by an inverted track.

The people that have come up with this as well as JohnP have been in the industry not just as bowlers but also pro shop operators and industry professionals longer than you have been alive.

I don't mean to be so blunt and/or harsh but it appears that is the only way to get the point across.
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