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Author Topic: Regarding Pro Bowlers and local tournaments...  (Read 8520 times)

Easy10pins

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Regarding Pro Bowlers and local tournaments...
« on: June 23, 2006, 10:57:54 AM »
This past weekend, Hawaii TV Bowling had a tournament at Barber's Point Bowling Lanes here on Oahu.  To my surprise, Robert Smith aka Maximum Bob had entered the tournament.  Needless to say I put my gear back in my car and didn't bother wasting the entry fee.  He did win the tourny, BTW.

I just want to get opinions on this.  How fair is this to the average/above average bowler to have a PBA professional bowling in a local tournament? (unless he is no longer a touring pro).
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Solid 7 Pin??  299 Game??!! WTF  

Edited on 6/23/2006 6:54 PM

 

T Brockette

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Re: Regarding Pro Bowlers and local tournaments...
« Reply #31 on: June 24, 2006, 05:03:13 PM »
Jeff, great post. I consider myself a decent bowler, and probably past a point where I could really turn it up a notch to get way better. I bowled in the in the late 70's and early 80's and then quit for 16 years, so my level of bowling will more than likely stay pretty much where it is at. But I can tell you this, If Jeff Carter or Robert Smith or anyone else for that matter, came to the center and wanted to bowl, I would be the first person to shoe up.

Can I keep up with these guys, no way. But you can bet that I would go down swinging, instead of not sacking up and trying my best. Once again, Jeff great post.
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smash8-10split

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Re: Regarding Pro Bowlers and local tournaments...
« Reply #32 on: June 24, 2006, 05:10:36 PM »
quote:
quote:
...There is a slight difference between bowling against the best players in a area and surrounding area and going up against national tour players....

...If they have to bowl against local bowlers in some tourny to pocket a grand, their career is probably not going in the right direction.


Very well said !
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Nothing but Dyno-Thane

Live by the hook...Die by the hook

Robo-Arm bowlers SUCK...





here is the deal, they have EVERY right to bowl in these tourneys. So what if they win?  YOU DON'T pay their bills, buy their gas to get there ect ect.  I have accually seen a very accomplished bowler (nick vogelesang) come to a 9 pin no tap tourney everyone gets in at our local house and bring about 15 people after a regional was over.. i got the pleasure to bowl against him and actually beat him.  You can't be scared.  I had a conversation with him after our match and he said those regional guys were really pissed he came and got in it because he would win.  He told me the exact same thing, they don't pay my rent, my bills, or worry about the things i have to worry about

well put.
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Atochabsh

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Re: Regarding Pro Bowlers and local tournaments...
« Reply #33 on: June 24, 2006, 05:21:40 PM »
quote:
All you do is just take the little guys money, and say "good job, you tried"


Now wait a minute.  Is the above statement all anyone that wins tournaments does?  Whether you are in the 230 skill range, or the 200 skill range or the 180 skill range.  If you win a tournament, you have taken some "little guys'" money.  It might have been some 150 (or 130) average bowler just getting their feet wet in tournament format at a weekend house no tap tourny.   But you still took their money.  

Its all relative.  Just because you are averaging over 200 doesn't mean you are exempt from being beaten by a bigger better bowler.  

If you were a top world player and wanted to stay on top of your game where would you go during the off season to play?  How do you think these guys and gals stay so good?  They have to work and they have to keep in competition no matter what.  Its always your perogative to not bowl, even if your fees are non refundable.  If the tournament rules  say "no PBA card holders" then you can be assured that no Robert Smiths or Chris Barnes will show up.  Otherwise, you take your chances.  

Erin

Jeff Carter

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Re: Regarding Pro Bowlers and local tournaments...
« Reply #34 on: June 24, 2006, 09:05:42 PM »
302efi, how do you think i got to this point ? did you not read my post ? I bowled against the best competition that i could find, and i still do. I butt heads against the best bowlers in the world every day. I'm certainly not in there league, but if i ever plan on getting to their level i have to beat them. How do i expect the "little fish" to compete ? Bust their butt like i did. I did it while holding down a 50 hour a week job and spending all of my time and money on practice and equipment. If you want something you should work for it, not have it handed to you by inferior competition. If your idea of winning is beating up on competion at or below your level, you are totally mistaken. The only way to get better is to get away from your typical house conditions and shoe up against somebody that should kick your a** ! I make most of the kids that i coach bowl match games against me. They may not win, but it makes them work twice as hard.

Other than that, my job is to bowl to win. If you dont have that attitude, step off the porch !!!
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Bowl up a Storm,
Jeff Carter
www.stormbowling.com
www.jeffcarterbowling.com

Edited on 6/24/2006 9:02 PM

Easy10pins

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Re: Regarding Pro Bowlers and local tournaments...
« Reply #35 on: June 24, 2006, 09:23:24 PM »
quote:
yeah dude, post some vids! which leagues are you bowling in now?
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Jasen Ono


I've been trying to get a team together from people I work with but they flaked on me at the last minute.  So I may end up being the 6th Man on whatever team again.
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Solid 7 Pin??  299 Game??!! WTF  

Joe Jr

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Re: Regarding Pro Bowlers and local tournaments...
« Reply #36 on: June 24, 2006, 09:37:00 PM »
Well said Jeff, great posts.
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302efi

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Re: Regarding Pro Bowlers and local tournaments...
« Reply #37 on: June 24, 2006, 09:37:12 PM »
quote:
If you want something you should work for it, not have it handed to you by inferior competition.


Well that the exact oppisite of what your doing when you enter tourneys with regular bowlers in them !  They are inferior competition and you totally whoop their arse...mite not be fun, but it pays your bills, right ?

...and thats another win under your belt so you can stay on Storm staff, right ?

Keep in mind, I DO bowl in 2 shootout leagues WITH PBA memebers in them (Jason Hurd, Shawn Evans ect...) so I know my odds when I step into a tourny.

I just find it ROFL funny that you complain that some people don't want you in their local tourneys !...I mean, your up there with the best, then bowl with the best...Bowl pot games with them, bowl more tourneys with them ect...

When you start biting the hand that feeds you, then what ?


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Nothing but Dyno-Thane

Live by the hook...Die by the hook

Robo-Arm bowlers SUCK...

Joe Jr

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Re: Regarding Pro Bowlers and local tournaments...
« Reply #38 on: June 24, 2006, 09:44:45 PM »
quote:
302efi,  Sounds to me that your scared of bowlers that are better than you.  Your not even good enough to hold their ball bag.  Crybaby, cry cry cry.
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Quoted for truth.
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302efi

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Re: Regarding Pro Bowlers and local tournaments...
« Reply #39 on: June 24, 2006, 09:56:38 PM »
LOL you 'tards make me laugh !

I usually never get in pissing contests on the net, its like The Special Olympics, even if you win you lose.


So...Brunswick Lefty, you keep being a BrunsNick wannabe, but on the worng side


...and Bowling 300 900, I see you been around since urethane, so you might be out dated by now

I'm done...and bowling takes another turn for the worse..LOL

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Nothing but Dyno-Thane

Live by the hook...Die by the hook

Robo-Arm bowlers SUCK...

Jeff Carter

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Re: Regarding Pro Bowlers and local tournaments...
« Reply #40 on: June 24, 2006, 10:06:52 PM »
302efi, you totally missed my point. I bowl anything and everything that i can. I bowl for a living. Thats how i earn my income. Just like most people have an 8-5 job, i go where the action is. Most of the time i stay away from local stuff. But i dont like the fact that i'm banned from it. All you are saying is that if you work hard and make yourself the best that you can be, you are now limited in what you can bowl in. Everybody has the same opportunity that i've had. Its not my fault that i chose this as my career, so dont blame me when i show up to compete. I dont look at it as "taking the little guys money". On house patterns the playing field is leveled and anybody can beat anybody at any given time. If you show up to bowl a tournament, i would expect you to bring your a game and nothing less, the same as i do. The only difference is that i've devoted the majority of my life to not only bowling but the entire sport. Dont insult me by saying i'm biting the hand that feeds me. I was the one feeding the big dogs for a long time ( and i still do on the national tour ). My whole point is that i'm going to compete whenever and wherever i can. If the PBA had something for me to bowl every week of the year, you would never see me in a local tournament. Until that time comes, my job is to go where the action is no matter how big or small. I'm not going to just sit at home and wait for the tour to start, i'm going to compete and i shouldnt be told when and where i'm allowed based on skill level. Bowling has a big enough integrity issue the way it is, but if the inflated average bowlers accross the country dont want their egos bruised, then they should find another sport to compete in. Now if you know me at all ( which i'm sure you dont ), you would know that i'm the first person to stand up against the soft lane condition issue. I am probably the biggest beneficiary of easy lane conditions, but i'm also the first person to say that the average record is a total, complete joke ! I will never knock the league bowlers that have averages that may not be "true", as long as they understand what their true skill level is. The best bowlers in the world average 228 at best ( PBA tour record ), so when somebody averages 242 in a league somewhere i tip my hat to them. But i hope they realize where they fit in to the world of this sport. Until the USBC does something to control this, we will continue to fight this problem.

302efi, im not attacking you on this subject. We just disagree on this topic. You have your opinion and i have mine, and i respect that. I just wish that either there was more separation between the proffessional and amateur ranks, or they do without the regulations on who can bowl in what. Just so that you know, i'm not eligible to bowl the largest tournament in my hometown. A tournament that i not only promoted and supported for over 20 years, but one that i've brought dozens and dozens of bowlers to. Since they no longer allow PBA members, they have basically told me thanks for all of your years of help, but we no longer want you around. How would you feel about that ? How would you feel about no longer being able to bowl the USBC Championships ? Its not fun watching your friends compete in tournaments when you can only watch. Again i'm sorry for ranting on, but this topic just frustrates me to no end. I have given an awful lot to my association and this sport in general, i guess i just expect to be supported in return
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Bowl up a Storm,
Jeff Carter
www.stormbowling.com
www.jeffcarterbowling.com

Edited on 6/24/2006 10:05 PM

Joe Jr

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Re: Regarding Pro Bowlers and local tournaments...
« Reply #41 on: June 24, 2006, 10:23:55 PM »
302efi is pathetic, his stupid thoughts get him backend into a corner and all he can do is throw insults.

BrunsNick wannabe? I mean comeone what does that even mean?

Next time if you don't want to be called stupid don't open your mouth.
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Formerly Richard Cranium

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www.Brunswickinsiders.com

hookem

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Re: Regarding Pro Bowlers and local tournaments...
« Reply #42 on: June 24, 2006, 10:57:26 PM »
I've been debating on chiming in but I figured I might as well.  Jeff said it best, there just isn't enough separation between the amateur and professional ranks.  To pull more entries to some tourneys the amateur scratch tourneys open themselves up to PBA card holders.  Do I like it no, but if I want something to bowl I have no choice.  This is a tough subject.  Some of the exempt guys in my area probably feel the same way as Jeff.  Everyone started somewhere, paying their dues in their local associations and they feel they should be allowed to bowl in their local associations tourneys.  However, in many ways it's going to be seen as easy money for the professionals, especially those on the exempt tour.  The weekend warriors on the regional tour maybe not so much.  Jeff is in the middle somewhere (only in regards to being exempt, not talent by any means) as he just earned his exemption and has paid his dues.  But from the perspective of the guys that bowl 6 games a week and can average 215-220 and want to bowl a local tourney, when they see an exempt guy enter it's going to aggravate some.  It's not right to say to these people well you need to bowl against the best to be the best because many of them have no desire to bowl against the best in the world, they're content with bowling against the best in the local area, non exempt players, and have no aspirations of going beyond that.  There just isn't enough separation plain and simple.  I'm sure some of the exempts do see it as easy money but there's also a great deal more that do it because they love to bowl and what choice do they have?  The Tour season isn't year round and sometimes there's a month between regionals and they want to bowl.  There is no solution to make people happy.  As bowling continues to cater to open play there will be less and less separation and probably less and less tournaments.  I know I didn't pick a side and probably talked my way into a circle but oh well, it's not black and white.

oilhog2

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Re: Regarding Pro Bowlers and local tournaments...
« Reply #43 on: June 25, 2006, 02:08:59 AM »
big deal hes on the PBA even if he wasnt hed still be at the tournament

Easy10pins

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Re: Regarding Pro Bowlers and local tournaments...
« Reply #44 on: June 25, 2006, 02:31:58 AM »
Here's a tidbit for you...

Smith's entry in the tournament actually increased the number of entrants.


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Solid 7 Pin??  299 Game??!! WTF  

Charles

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Re: Regarding Pro Bowlers and local tournaments...
« Reply #45 on: June 26, 2006, 09:45:46 AM »
Just my 2 cents. Excellent post Jeff Carter. You must know that you are wlecome to any event in the Dallas/Ft. Worth metroplex sir and very few peeps will "pack it in the car and head out." We have several touring exempts to include C_J (Chris Johnson fellow BR.com member), Chris Barnes, Linda Barnes, DJ Archer, Rick Lawrence, Dino Castillo, Del Ballard, Carolyn---I could go on and on and on. When I enter ANY tournament, and I enter as many as my schedule will allow,I fully expect to see these and/or others entered. I look at it as I am bowling against the lanes not against them. If I can conquer the lanes then I am going to be tought to beat. I have beat them and they have beaten me. No big deal. I have been beat by locals also. It happens. Just because an exempt bowler shows up, doesn't mean to just hand them the trophy/check and no need for them to bowl. They are human to. I have seen Chros Barnes average 150 on a house shot for 9 matchplay games. Was he upset, sure. Just like anybody else would be. I look forward to challenging the lanes and let the other bowlers do what they do. That's how I focus. As far as 302efi, not gonna bash him as he seems like a good guy and we have had great transactions. He has his opinion and I applaud Jeff for his professionalism/respect in not bashing him either. However, isn't it the same when your local league is running brackets or high pots? Don't people put in their money even though they don't have the highest average and the same guys are constantly winning or getting close? Bottom line is bowling is a competitive sport. So if you want to compete, then shoe up no matter the competition. If you don't, there's always $1 open bowling on Sunday mornings. Just my $.02 snd look forward to seeing you in the metroplex sometime Jeff.
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