Author Topic: What causes most 8 pin leaves? (Read 20697 times)

Elite_Digger · « **on:** March 14, 2006, 12:34:34 PM »

I'm sure this has been covered before but I couldn't find anything on it. I used to get maybe 7-8 8-pin leaves a season. It was a pretty rare leave for me. Just recently got a new ball and I've left 6 of them in the past 4 weeks. And just as Murphy's law would imply, they seem to come at the most inopportune time possible..... What causes solid 8-pin leaves and what do I need to adjust? Or is it something that's more of an abberation and I should just live with it and hope they don't pop up.
Digs
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Never argue with an idiot....They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!

nd300 · « **Reply #1 on:** March 14, 2006, 08:42:22 PM »

You're probably like me and have always been told that the 8 pin for a right hander is the only true ripoff in bowling.
Last year I started bowling in a league that a former touring pro bowled in. While bowling next to him one night, I left two solid 8 pins in a row. After the second one he asked me why I didn't adjust. My answer was just as stated above.
His reply was that I shold move just a hair lighter with my foot on the approach----1/2 board to the left. Result?

A finished game of 257.......
Maybe it's worth a shot..............
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Chris
Lane#1--nothing else hits like 'em.

Speedburner89 · « **Reply #2 on:** March 14, 2006, 08:45:35 PM »

the majority of 8 pins are just sh*t luck, having a ball that drives into the 8 pin spot (a ton of entry angle) will help reduce this problem but everybody still leaves 8s, some just more than others for the differences in typical entry angle and drive
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Don't trust the moustache

mab · « **Reply #3 on:** March 14, 2006, 08:56:05 PM »

I agree with nd300 more times than not it can be cured with a small move on the approach 1/2 to 1 board at your finish point, try moveing both ways. I some times move up tp 3 boards to get the carry on single pins 8 & 9. The 10 thats another story.
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X's for show, /'s for dough
ROTO GRIP KING OF THEM ALL

KingCranker · « **Reply #4 on:** March 14, 2006, 09:05:40 PM »

well I dont agree,I think a true solid 8 pin is takin it on the chin....*Hard*

adjusting on a 8 Pin...why? They say its the only true tap,then why move?

Paco
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No Excuses,Play Like A Champion!

my Email : Crazy.Hoops5@verizon.net

NOTHUMB · « **Reply #5 on:** March 14, 2006, 09:21:48 PM »

Ive always said that an 8 pin is just a shot thrown to well. The ball is driving the appropiate angle to take out the 1-3-5-9, but the ball gets so flush on the 5, that neither the ball or the pin go left---they just go straight back.
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Only Losers Feel Pressure
www.thetimekillers.com

TheIronMan · « **Reply #6 on:** March 14, 2006, 09:50:04 PM »

" you simply drove the 5 pin straight back and it missed the 8 pin.

Actually, this is one of the most common misnomers in bowling. On almost all solid 8s, the ball never touches the 5 pin. What happens is the headpin ricochets off the 2 pin butt first into the 5 pin, driving the 5 straight back before the ball can get to it. The headpin sometimes goes straight back with the 5, sometimes wraps around the 8 pin (not knocking it down) and sometimes hits the 8 pin, only you don't notice this one unless you are filming and can slo-mo it. Sometimes, with extreme entry angle or lack of deflection the ball will continue to a path that splits the 8 and 9. That's when you see the 8 pin barely fall to the left. A stone 9 is usually a higher hit(1/2 board)and deflects a little less, causing the ball to chop the 5 off the 9. I think you might adjust for a 9, but don't know how you would adjust for an 8 pin. Its perfect placement,but unusual (though more common today) pinfall. Here's a link that shows some pretty good slo-mo films of solid 8s. http://www.teamstatpro.com/solid8pin.htm
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www.buildanarsenal.com

NOTHUMB · « **Reply #7 on:** March 14, 2006, 09:53:33 PM »

Ironman---I dont disagree, but Ive got video of a solid 8 that I left where the ball rolled over the 5 pin. Not trying to be argumentative---but I guess it can go both ways.
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Only Losers Feel Pressure
www.thetimekillers.com

chitown · « **Reply #8 on:** March 14, 2006, 11:36:20 PM »

8 pins for a right hander are because of the ball deflecting too much. 9 pins are from the ball not deflecting enough(driving too hard)

Phillip Marlowe · « **Reply #9 on:** March 15, 2006, 12:16:38 AM »

The description the team makes is misleading. Here is what happens. Watch the tapes slowly, frame by frame. The ball comes in slightly high flush. It hits the headpin which deflects into the 2 pin. The ball then collides with the 3 pin and deflects back left. The head pin, upon colliding with the 2 flies backwards with the base of the pin kicked out toward the 5. The base of the headpin hits the five, just before the ball gets there, beginning the process of knocking the five down. Because the headpin is still basically headed back and left, it deflects around the 8 pin.

Now, the ball continues to move into the pit. It is on the right side of the center of the five pin, which is moving right, into the ball's path (in the old days, with plastic or today with a flat ball, you might still leave a 5-8 because the ball would deflect or the ball would kick the five in front of the

. The ball hits the five (and the headpin in one instance), pushing the 5 slightly to the left, but to the right of the eight, and the ball is ultimately what pushes the five into the pit before rolling past and slightly to the right of the 8, after the ball has been at least partially deflected by the five pin.

What does this mean? It means that a true solid 8 is not just an overtracking or strong ball, it is also a ball that has the misfortune of hitting the five at just the wrong angle and time to push it just to the right of the 8 -- which is likewise caused by the relatively bad break of the 1 deflecting in such a way as to have the base kick out to the right while the basic trajectory of the pin is to the left.
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"Now lets see you do something really tough. Like getting up."

Edited on 3/15/2006 1:17 AM

Walking E · « **Reply #10 on:** March 15, 2006, 01:02:33 AM »

Most of the time when I leave an 8-pin it's when I slightly fluffed the ball and it turned up early but still hit solid in the pocket. I very rarely leave them on my normal shot (which might be telling me that the fluff shot is the better shot for me, who knows).
I happen to think that they're not as unpredicatable as people think.
In fact, when watching the pro tour, I see one pro who leaves more 8 pins than any other pro I see. And coincidentally, he also slightly fluffs the ball (well, relative to the other pros) and plays a slight roll-out shot. Which pro is that, you might ask?
Rick Steelsmith

And not just lots of 8-pins, but that guy leaves more single back row pins than any other pro I see. Coincidence? I think there's something more to it.
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Official Member of the BrunsTrackColumStormHammEboRotoBuzzAMF Nation!

Brandon Riley · « **Reply #11 on:** March 15, 2006, 01:09:31 AM »

bad luck, bad rack. its just too bad. make the spare and move on.

wkf0908 · « **Reply #12 on:** March 15, 2006, 02:50:26 AM »

Just my experience, i always leave 8 or 9 pin while using a ball with shiny surface, and with a dull surface's ball, it seldom leave with this pin.

dizzyfugu · « **Reply #13 on:** March 15, 2006, 03:06:57 AM »

The single stone 8 pin is simply bad luck. You made a very good shot, in fact, but the 5 just did not take out the 8. Around here, we just say "Well, that was just a too beautiful pocket shot!"

Don't worry.
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DizzyFugu - Reporting from Germany
Team "X" website (now available in English!): http://homepage.mac.com/timlinked/
"All that we see or seem, is but a dream within a dream..." - Edgar Allen Poe

Silencer · « **Reply #14 on:** March 15, 2006, 03:22:12 AM »

In order to leave a solid 8 pin (stone) you basically have to hit everything perfectly just about so everything avoids the 8. Maybe the 5 pin is a little offset and these days most bowling alley's have bad racks. And as far as moving on after them, it can be hard because for some reason they do always manage to come up in key moments of a game/match. Or like one of my friends did a few years ago in league...He had never shot 300, had like 4 299's at the time, all 10 pins, he left the 8 pin dead solid on his 12th ball for his 5th 299, that hurts! Most I have ever gone front before leaving one of those was front 8, oh well

P.S. It is also possible to have so much insane angle that the ball drives infront of the 8 pin, done it before
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And Then...........

I left another 10 pin

Edited on 3/15/2006 4:24 AM

Author Topic: What causes most 8 pin leaves? (Read 20697 times)

Elite_Digger

What causes most 8 pin leaves?

nd300

Re: What causes most 8 pin leaves?

Speedburner89

Re: What causes most 8 pin leaves?

mab

Re: What causes most 8 pin leaves?

KingCranker

Re: What causes most 8 pin leaves?

No Excuses,Play Like A Champion!

NOTHUMB

Re: What causes most 8 pin leaves?

TheIronMan

Re: What causes most 8 pin leaves?

NOTHUMB

Re: What causes most 8 pin leaves?

chitown

Re: What causes most 8 pin leaves?

Phillip Marlowe

Re: What causes most 8 pin leaves?

Walking E

Re: What causes most 8 pin leaves?

Brandon Riley

Re: What causes most 8 pin leaves?

wkf0908

Re: What causes most 8 pin leaves?

dizzyfugu

Re: What causes most 8 pin leaves?

Silencer

Re: What causes most 8 pin leaves?