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Author Topic: What is considered Par bowling today  (Read 7897 times)

Gazoo

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What is considered Par bowling today
« on: September 02, 2006, 08:49:46 AM »
There was a time when par bowling was considered a 200 ave. With the influx of high scores (honor & averages), what does one think par bowling is today? This applies to the standard shot of today and not sport bowling. With the medium average at about 178 today verus 168 of earlier times, par bowling would be at 210 maintaining that 10 pin increase. The 220 and 230 averages we see are only representive of about 10% of bowlers. So the question is if you agree with this 10 pin increase, is there really a problem (except for that 10%) with the current status of bowling.

 

Robadat

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Re: What is considered Par bowling today
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2006, 05:55:31 PM »
Gazoo,
I agree with your assessment as the bar is now in the 210 area.  In my league that I've bowled in the last 5 years that would seem to be the case.
the 2000-01 season there were 3 or 4 bowlers over the 200 mark when we had 22 teams, last year we had 3 bowlers over 210 with 16 teams. So, that bar is a little better than the top 10%.
 I think the problem comes in the next group, the people who are now in the 190-210 average group.  5 years ago, that group was 180-200, there were approx. 25 in that group out of 88 bowlers, about 30%, last year out of the 64 bowlers in league, in the 190-210 range, I would estimate that there were 30 in that group or about 40 or 45%.
This is the biggest reason you see the better bowlers complaining about the new tech in the balls. Today, you really don't need the physical ability to create optimum entry angles to carry strikes consistently.  Five years ago I carried 172 ave. while my accuracy has improved some, this last summer league I finished at 193, I don't believe that I am 2 strikes better per game than I was 5 years ago, but with the newer balls that I am using, I will get those 2 extra strikes per game.
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Rileybowler

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Re: What is considered Par bowling today
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2006, 05:59:36 PM »
I think today with some of the house conditions being so easy and with the hook in a box balls people are hitting the 200 and above average much quicker than before although I am not one of those. Our house does not put out an easy blocked shot. I don't think the bowlers of today are as good as they were a few years ago and surely are not as talented and knowledgable as a few years ago
--------------------
Carl
Carl
Bless the LORD o my soul and all that is within me bless his holy name

NateNice

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Re: What is considered Par bowling today
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2006, 06:22:53 PM »
the problem with just adding 10 pins is bowling is not scored linearly.  There is the law of diminishing returns in bowling so suggesting that "par bowling" should be +10 because the average is now 178 from 168 is faulty, by a small margin.

Without doing any math and taking a rough guess, I would say par by your standard should probably be around 207 or so, +/- 1.

In regards to bowling averages as they relate to the overall handicap a player has, why isn't it calculated like golf in that it' based on potential?  I understand an average should be the sum of all games divided by total games played, but for league handicap purposes, maybe a handicap calculated by potential would be more fair?

It just doesn't seem fair when a 150 average goes against a 210 average.  The 150 guy can easily sore pass their handicap for a game where as the 210 bowler has a much harder time.  Usually lower averages are an aggregate of terrible and great games where as the 210 average bowler is generally more consistent.

If we based it on potential then the 150 average bowler would probably be treated like a 165 average bowler and the 210 bowler would stay around the same.

From my paper experiments this makes it more fair in that since scoring is not linear and the 210 average bowler has a harder time going over average (because10 more pins on a 210 is much harder than 10 more pins on a 150..2 opens to convert a spare versus 4 or 5, for instance).

Also, usually someone around 150 is usually improving anyways and has the potential to have unbeatable games.

I should probably make this into a topic and discuss in more detail my intentions here.

Gazoo

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Re: What is considered Par bowling today
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2006, 10:44:42 PM »
NateNice,
I will bowl the 150 average every time, especially for money! No matter how much handicap they have! League or tournament!

NateNice

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Re: What is considered Par bowling today
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2006, 03:41:58 AM »
quote:
NateNice,
I will bowl the 150 average every time, especially for money! No matter how much handicap they have! League or tournament!


I'm not so sure I would.  Someone who has a 150 and rising is a difficult opponent.

I grant you they will have some low games and you can get them one these because they don't have consistency, but they have a much higher ceiling.

For instance, a 150 bowling a terrible 120 is 30 pins lower.  A 210 bowling 30 pins lower is a 180, which still takes a decent game to achieve.  What I'm saying is that the 150 average guy can bowl out of his mind (we're talking 190 which is easy with a couple lucky strikes in a row) but still have the benefit of having a bad game not be so bad because it's hard to bowl a really bad game (120 or so).  

So the consistency of the 210 bowler is nice and will win some of them, I've seen that they have such a small margin that if the lower handicap has a good game it's almost impossibly to beat them and if both have a bad game it's easier to win with the lower average.

I think since bowling isn't score linearly, averages shouldn't be used because it's a linear metric.

NateNice

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Re: What is considered Par bowling today
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2006, 03:48:56 AM »
quote:
quote:
I think today with some of the house conditions being so easy and with the hook in a box balls people are hitting the 200 and above average much quicker than before although I am not one of those. Our house does not put out an easy blocked shot. I don't think the bowlers of today are as good as they were a few years ago and surely are not as talented and knowledgeable as a few years ago
--------------------
Carl

 
I guess bowling is the only sport where the athletes haven't improved.

Edited on 9/2/2006 11:17 PM


That's so true.

Yes, modern balls are nice and give many benefits, but the bowler still has to hit their mark and still has to roll it out to the breakpoint which is harder than it sounds.  Especially with modern lane conditions.  Lets face it, todays lanes ARE harder to bowl on, in general.  Especially if you play a sport shot or something similar.

But like you said, we have improvements everywhere.  Home Runs, golf scores, sprinting speeds, drag race records, and every other record being broken.  

People take sports more seriously now days.  They practice more and we know more.

Bowling has been studied much, much more than it was in the 60's.  Coaches and players know so much more than we did now days.  

Technology has improved the balls and also made the lanes more challenging.

Why is it so hard for people to recognize that todays bowlers have more access to knowledge and experience from others besides just the superior ball tech?  

You can browse the Internet for a few hours, read enough articles and instantly know more about Bowling in terms of technique, research and basics than people from the 60's, 70's and 80's.

Our knowledge is growing.  Ball tech is not the only reason for better scores.

BrianCRX90

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Re: What is considered Par bowling today
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2006, 12:09:45 PM »
The handicap should be from an average of 150-225.

Simply, the bowler that averages higher then 225 will not get any handicap.
The bowler that averages less then 150 is capped out on handicap.

So if you average 150 and your handicap is 60 or whatever and another bowler averages 142...that bowler that averages 142 will only get 60 handicap opposed to more handicap. The less your average is should not mean you get more pins.

trash heap

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Re: What is considered Par bowling today
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2006, 08:30:51 PM »
NateNice I have to disagree with you on this:

quote: Why is it so hard for people to recognize that todays bowlers have more access to knowledge and experience from others besides just the superior ball tech?

You can browse the Internet for a few hours, read enough articles and instantly know more about Bowling in terms of technique, research and basics than people from the 60's, 70's and 80's.

Our knowledge is growing. Ball tech is not the only reason for better scores.



There are only a few people that do research on bowling. The stories I hear from Pro Shop guys are they get alot of the same requests from customers:

- I want a ball to play 2nd Arrow.
- I want a ball that goes long and snaps at the end.
- I want the biggest hooking ball out there.


quote: People take sports more seriously now days. They practice more and we know more.

Not true. Only the guys that want to improve practice. 1st Week of league started for me this past Friday. My father-in-law and my Wife are on my team. Neither one of them bowled since beginning of May. Father-in-law throw 614 series (3 games). My wife throws a 566 series, she rolled a 220 one game. I am sure that this happens alot in leauges.


quote: Yes, modern balls are nice and give many benefits, but the bowler still has to hit their mark and still has to roll it out to the breakpoint which is harder than it sounds. Especially with modern lane conditions. Lets face it, todays lanes ARE harder to bowl on, in general. Especially if you play a sport shot or something similar.


Now about hitting your mark: I have seen on nights that a mark can stretch across 5 boards maybe more. All the bowler has to do is get it out there, anywhere and the ball will funnel to the pocket. THS and Ball tech has made this game very easy.

Sport Shot has helped but only those who want to improve and are looking for a challenge want to play on this condition.
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trash heap

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Re: What is considered Par bowling today
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2006, 08:47:14 PM »
fireguy,

Who are you referring to, as today's bowlers?  
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trash heap

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Re: What is considered Par bowling today
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2006, 08:49:10 PM »
Sorry I meant to continue....Are you referring to a specific age group?
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trash heap

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Re: What is considered Par bowling today
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2006, 09:06:02 PM »
My reference was with Rileybowler's statement, which I agree with. People (League bowlers) can achieve an above 200 average today quicker than in the past. Just find a THS League, get the lastest hook-o-matic ball, a little practice and presto!!! Your over 200.

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trash heap

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Re: What is considered Par bowling today
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2006, 09:15:55 PM »
I not sure you if you can compare the top percent of League bowlers from the past with the same percent of todays top bowlers.

Some of the more experienced bowlers on here might have a better view on this one.

Edited on 9/3/2006 9:10 PM
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trash heap

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Re: What is considered Par bowling today
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2006, 09:39:46 PM »
It would also require all greens on a golf course to be in funnel. As soon as the ball hits the green it goes in the cup. There would be alot more holes in one !!!
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trash heap

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Re: What is considered Par bowling today
« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2006, 10:00:31 PM »
Definition of Athlete:A person possessing the natural or acquired traits, such as strength, agility, and endurance, that are necessary for physical exercise or sports, especially those performed in competitive contexts.

1. Strength: Agree! It has improved.

2. Agility: Improved? I am not sure for what purpose. I do not know much quickness and nimbleness is needed today vs. years ago. I going to state NO.

3. Endurance: Nope don't see any improvement here either. Guys bowled back then as much as they do now.

One out of three. Based on my LOGIC: I guess your right, bowling is the only sport where the athlete hasn't improved.
 
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