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Author Topic: what really separates storm from the pack  (Read 12702 times)

RotoStorm864

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what really separates storm from the pack
« on: April 07, 2013, 03:39:28 PM »
Ok. Serious question ive been wondering about for awhile. What really separates storm and  roto grip from the competition? Storm and roto have dominated on tv for a while now and every tournament I go to you seen a ton of theyre stuff and they all look great. Is it the covers? Cores? They're lineup just always seems so complete.

 

Gizmo823

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Re: what really separates storm from the pack
« Reply #61 on: April 12, 2013, 08:38:26 AM »
I think it would be fun and interesting to see the top pros throw other companies and see how they did.  I will admit that I am a Storm/Roto backer and would love to see Rash and Barnes use a Defiant Soul or IQ Pearl.  Barnes would really benefit, in my opinion, with getting a little more angle entry to the pocket to eliminate all the flat tens he seems to leave.

I doubt that it would help. The violent eruption creates just as much angle as any storm ball.....Barnes knows the type of reaction he wants to see and he creates it with hand positions. If he wants to create angle he can and would.....

Yeah, Barnes is all about controlling the backend.  Flat 10s are a lot easier to pick up than big 4s.  He makes the tv shows leaving flat 10s instead of splits, but in a 1 game match on tv, it can make it look worse than it really is. 

What would you be if you were attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis?

Gizmo823

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Re: what really separates storm from the pack
« Reply #62 on: April 12, 2013, 08:50:24 AM »
+1  And like I already said, if it comes to "opinions" from industry vets vs "opinions" from a league bowler, the industry vet's holds much more weight because it WILL be based on more proven ideas because of the amount of experience.  So while you may say "well it's still just an opinion," that's REALLY devaluing the experience of somebody like Rico. 

I may be a league bowler now, it has been by choice due to my son's number of sporting activities.  However, I would say I'm not your ordinary league bowler as I have had some world wide success and I know how to read a ball reaction like I can read Java code. 

I respect Rico more than probably anyone on this site.  But don't assume that every other poster is just some once a week league bowler.    I've chose to remain anonymous for various reasons.

Quote
To me, it would have to be THS, because with the R&D and testing that goes into this stuff, no ball company would purposely or knowingly release balls that overlapped so much . . and on tougher shots, the differences are more easily identified.  A house shot makes everything look the same.

I'm sure you know this, but the ball companies are in the business to make money. Balls have a very short shelf appeal and everyone thinks the latest is the greatest.  Just like in golf.  Companies keep producing new clubs even though the old ones work fine and things like size and COR have been maxed out for years.

Anthony Chapman

Good points.  I especially like your last point.  I'll see several balls coming out now that make me think, "wow, they already made this ball like 4 years ago."  My angle on Storm is a little different, for me, it's the different shapes they present.  They have balls that have Brunswick type reaction, balls with Hammer type reaction, etc.  No other company seems to have such diversity as far as that goes.  Maybe they still don't match up for certain people, and I don't use Storm and haven't thrown one in years, but for me as a pro shop operator, it seems to be easier to match a brand loyalist up if they prefer Storm than to match up any other loyalist with a ball from their brand of choice without giving them something that's basically what they already have. 
What would you be if you were attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis?

ccrider

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Re: what really separates storm from the pack
« Reply #63 on: April 12, 2013, 10:00:02 AM »
Do any of you think that Walter Ray matches up well with Brunswick?

It is quite obvious that some of the opinions stated are more trustworthy than others. JustRico, can you explain what you mean by "reaction to friction" and what you see in Storm's reaction that gives it its present edge?

 Also, Backtobasics, what is your thought about storms current Pequipment, compared to its older equipment? How much of storms present use is a result of the quality and superiority of its older equipment, as opposed to the comparative characteristics of its newer equipment? You can define where you draw the line between "old and new."

tdub36tjt

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Re: what really separates storm from the pack
« Reply #64 on: April 12, 2013, 10:12:45 AM »
Do any of you think that Walter Ray matches up well with Brunswick?

It is quite obvious that some of the opinions stated are more trustworthy than others. JustRico, can you explain what you mean by "reaction to friction" and what you see in Storm's reaction that gives it its present edge?

 Also, Backtobasics, what is your thought about storms current Pequipment, compared to its older equipment? How much of storms present use is a result of the quality and superiority of its older equipment, as opposed to the comparative characteristics of its newer equipment? You can define where you draw the line between "old and new."

I don't think its about matching up to the equipment with Walter anymore. I just don't think he matches up to the conditions. Most tournaments are won by people hooking it. The pba wants its poster child two handers to win......if they put out shots where getting straighter plays again Walter would be just fine no matter what company he threw. Its not about getting 9/ anymore which Walter is the best at. Its about getting 6 baggers.....

JustRico

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Re: what really separates storm from the pack
« Reply #65 on: April 12, 2013, 12:36:18 PM »
It's not so much about 'hooking' it, it's more about the ball coming in at the right angle, plus the higher rev/higher speed create a stronger angle of miss area to carry...force + velocity = dynamics
As far as react to friction...it's how bowling balls respond to friction...some covers respond slower & longer than others...it has to do with less volumes in the front and storing energy longer thus responding faster/quicker to the friction to create better angles when the condition becomes diamond shaped....the fronts start to go at an angle - right handers break the fronts right to left, thru the lay down area, the mids hold the volume up longer and then the back ends tend to create a right to left angle...if a ball clears the front easier/cleaner, when they get to the down lane friction, the ball tends to still respond due to more energy
Now this also is based on speed, rotation and force applied to the balls, but some players with a slower response cover having the ball bleed energy earlier, will see a 2-8-10 big four reaction where the later, faster/quicker response cover be a 2 pin, 4 pin or 10 pin at worse...
And it also depends on what looks right to your eye...
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Metal_rules

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Re: what really separates storm from the pack
« Reply #66 on: April 12, 2013, 04:03:59 PM »
I use all ROTO GRIP at this time. Since I started using R/G which has been for about 2 years now, my game has improved along with more honor scores. Now allot has to do with having a great ball driller to match up your game with what ball you are choosing. I have both at this time. I do believe that the way R/G balls roll and hit are like none other. I also used to use Columbia, Track,Ebonite and Hammer. Now I am not saying they are bad!  I am saying that I am having great success with R/G at this time. So why change anything. Again, IMO its a combo of matching up with a company's product and having someone who knows how to get you the correct layout with the correct ball for the ball to work properly for the lane condition you are playing. For now ROTO GRIP rules!
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kidlost2000

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Re: what really separates storm from the pack
« Reply #67 on: April 12, 2013, 04:32:17 PM »
That makes a lot of sense. (great visual)


It's not so much about 'hooking' it, it's more about the ball coming in at the right angle, plus the higher rev/higher speed create a stronger angle of miss area to carry...force + velocity = dynamics
As far as react to friction...it's how bowling balls respond to friction...some covers respond slower & longer than others...it has to do with less volumes in the front and storing energy longer thus responding faster/quicker to the friction to create better angles when the condition becomes diamond shaped....the fronts start to go at an angle - right handers break the fronts right to left, thru the lay down area, the mids hold the volume up longer and then the back ends tend to create a right to left angle...if a ball clears the front easier/cleaner, when they get to the down lane friction, the ball tends to still respond due to more energy
Now this also is based on speed, rotation and force applied to the balls, but some players with a slower response cover having the ball bleed energy earlier, will see a 2-8-10 big four reaction where the later, faster/quicker response cover be a 2 pin, 4 pin or 10 pin at worse...
And it also depends on what looks right to your eye...
It's not so much about 'hooking' it, it's more about the ball coming in at the right angle, plus the higher rev/higher speed create a stronger angle of miss area to carry...force + velocity = dynamics
As far as react to friction...it's how bowling balls respond to friction...some covers respond slower & longer than others...it has to do with less volumes in the front and storing energy longer thus responding faster/quicker to the friction to create better angles when the condition becomes diamond shaped....the fronts start to go at an angle - right handers break the fronts right to left, thru the lay down area, the mids hold the volume up longer and then the back ends tend to create a right to left angle...if a ball clears the front easier/cleaner, when they get to the down lane friction, the ball tends to still respond due to more energy
Now this also is based on speed, rotation and force applied to the balls, but some players with a slower response cover having the ball bleed energy earlier, will see a 2-8-10 big four reaction where the later, faster/quicker response cover be a 2 pin, 4 pin or 10 pin at worse...
And it also depends on what looks right to your eye...
…… you can't  add a physics term to a bowling term and expect it to mean something.

billdozer

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Re: what really separates storm from the pack
« Reply #68 on: April 12, 2013, 04:42:59 PM »
Yeah I love reading what rico has to say...theres a few EXTREMELY knowledgeable posters on this site...hes one of em!
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