Author Topic: what would you do 2.. (Read 6557 times)

J_w73 · « **on:** March 04, 2009, 05:08:03 AM »

didn't want to hijack drilllords thread so I started my own..
I was in a similar situation when a guy threw a 300 and when his ball struck he fell to his knees and slammed his elbows/arms onto the approach in celebration.. his elbows where not over the line but his hands/wrists were definately over the line but from my angle I could not tell if they touched the approach...since I wasn't completely positive they touched the approach I didn't bring it up..
If I did see them hit the approach I'm not sure what I would have done. That would be the ultimate D*ck move to take away someones 300 but a rule is a rule.. I think I would have said something.
What would you do??
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16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205,PBA Xperience ave180

J_w73 · « **Reply #61 on:** March 06, 2009, 01:43:50 PM »

quote:
You know, what I like about J_w73's argument is that it does make you think about the anger vs. celebration angle. Both shots are clearly completed, so the foul is not going to affect the outcome of the shot itself. However, the kicking of the foul light could more easily be considered an intentional foul, especially in the case of a 10 pin (since everybody seems to fear missing it and may think sparing a full rack to be easier).

I think more people side with ruling that a foul more as a way to punish bad behavior/poor sportsmanship than anything else. Not many want to strip the "good guy" of an honor score, but more would be willing to take it away from a jerk (again, to punish bad behavior/poor sportsmanship).
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just to say.. this is the last ball.. there will be no spare attempt.. so the intentional foul rule to gain an advantage can not come into play here.

And I will say this really happened and it cost us the game..
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16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205,PBA Xperience ave180

Edited on 3/6/2009 2:45 PM

Dan Belcher · « **Reply #62 on:** March 06, 2009, 01:51:08 PM »

quote:
just to say.. this is the last ball.. there will be no spare attempt.. so the intentional foul rule to gain an advantage can not come into play here.

And I will say this really happened and it cost us the game..

Making sure I understand right... Someone on your team kicked the foul light and it cost you the game? Wow. If so, either way you deserve to lose simply because that is an amazingly stupid thing to do!! If you're going to be an inconsiderate a-hole and kick stuff, at least be smart enough to get off the approach and kick your own bowling bag or something. You KNOW no good can come from kicking the foul light, that's an egregious error.

J_w73 · « **Reply #63 on:** March 06, 2009, 01:58:05 PM »

quote:
quote:
just to say.. this is the last ball.. there will be no spare attempt.. so the intentional foul rule to gain an advantage can not come into play here.

And I will say this really happened and it cost us the game..
Making sure I understand right... Someone on your team kicked the foul light and it cost you the game? Wow. If so, either way you deserve to lose simply because that is an amazingly stupid thing to do!! If you're going to be an inconsiderate a-hole and kick stuff, at least be smart enough to get off the approach and kick your own bowling bag or something. You KNOW no good can come from kicking the foul light, that's an egregious error.

yep .. you got it right.. wasn't the light but the top of the cap that houses the light.... beyond the foul line..
and yes.. it was a foul, I can't argue with it. and we lost.. not because it was a stupid thing to do.. but because it was a FOUL..
but was he in control.. yes..
was his ball in the pit and the game over.. yes
was his intention to foul... no

All of the same things as the guy that shot the 300..
so how can the ruling be different?
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16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205,PBA Xperience ave180

Dan Belcher · « **Reply #64 on:** March 06, 2009, 02:00:23 PM »

The 300 thing was careless. Kicking the foul light was downright stupid. (It's a fine line, obviously.) (Crap, there I go again with the puns about lines!)

J_w73 · « **Reply #65 on:** March 17, 2009, 09:55:49 AM »

quote:
quote:
I don't think you can make a difference between the two like that.. either they are both fouls.. or both are not fouls....
And I think you SHOULD be able to interpret situations differently even though it's not expressly written in the rulebook. Are you a computer? Do you lack the ability to make subjective calls? Not everything in sports has to be objective. The flopping call in the NBA is subjective, for example. Did Manu Ginobili really lose his balance because he got hit hard by someone driving to the hoop, or did he intentionally exaggerate it to attempt to draw an offensive foul despite there being just casual contact? You have to use your common sense when interpreting rules. They can't write every possible exception into the rulebook, they expect you to be thoughtful enough to decide for yourself if something applies to the situation or not.

Let me put it this way -- if someone slapped the approach after shooting a 300 on TV in the championship match of a PBA event, and his fingers went over the foul line, do you really think the PBA would call it a foul and take the 300 away? I HIGHLY doubt it. (Though I should doubt anybody would really do it because it's a goofy azz way to celebrate!)

Response from the PBA..

Our rule regarding fouls in competition is the same as the USBCâ€™s. But to clarify, if a bowler does not return to the bowlers area and slap the ground by placing his/her hand over the foul line, it would indeed be scored as a foul in PBA competition.

I hope this answers your question,

Sincerely,

Corey Kistner
Tournament Director, PBA Tours

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16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205,PBA Xperience ave180

EJ300 · « **Reply #66 on:** March 17, 2009, 10:06:32 AM »

quote:
If a person is going to celebrate, wouldn't he do it after the pins are down for the 300? in that case, the frame would be over, so if at that point he went over the foul line, how could it count? the frame is over. Sorry, just my opinion. if he went over the line before the pins fell then yes, its a foul, otherwise, its a 300.

+1 good point i didnt even think of that lol
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J_w73 · « **Reply #67 on:** March 17, 2009, 11:05:51 AM »

quote:
If a person is going to celebrate, wouldn't he do it after the pins are down for the 300? in that case, the frame would be over, so if at that point he went over the foul line, how could it count? the frame is over. Sorry, just my opinion. if he went over the line before the pins fell then yes, its a foul, otherwise, its a 300.

If you read the thread, that is basically what the whole thing is about. And you are wrong. It is still a foul even after the pins fall.
That was the reason for my post of the response from the PBA.
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16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205,PBA Xperience ave180

Author Topic: what would you do 2.. (Read 6557 times)

J_w73

what would you do 2..

J_w73

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Dan Belcher

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J_w73

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EJ300

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