Author Topic: what would you do 2.. (Read 6553 times)

J_w73 · « **on:** March 04, 2009, 05:08:03 AM »

didn't want to hijack drilllords thread so I started my own..
I was in a similar situation when a guy threw a 300 and when his ball struck he fell to his knees and slammed his elbows/arms onto the approach in celebration.. his elbows where not over the line but his hands/wrists were definately over the line but from my angle I could not tell if they touched the approach...since I wasn't completely positive they touched the approach I didn't bring it up..
If I did see them hit the approach I'm not sure what I would have done. That would be the ultimate D*ck move to take away someones 300 but a rule is a rule.. I think I would have said something.
What would you do??
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16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205,PBA Xperience ave180

J_w73 · « **Reply #31 on:** March 04, 2009, 04:48:31 PM »

My point was that they contradicted themselves. But yes one part of their answer was that it wouldn't be a foul.
He also said that if he immediately went down and touched the lane it was a foul.. if he went back to the sette area and then went back up on the lane and for some reason stepped on the fould line then it probably wouldn't be.

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16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205,PBA Xperience ave180

J_w73 · « **Reply #32 on:** March 04, 2009, 04:51:12 PM »

I am writing the USBC with the situation and see what repsonse I get in writing so there won't be any mistake in my interpretation of what they say.
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16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205,PBA Xperience ave180

J_w73 · « **Reply #33 on:** March 04, 2009, 04:59:57 PM »

response from another site.. just another scenario to look at.

A foul is a foul. I once saw somebody run out the 12th strike and fall over the above-ground ball return 2 lanes to his left and fell onto that lane. 290
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16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205,PBA Xperience ave180

Edited on 3/4/2009 6:11 PM

JohnP · « **Reply #34 on:** March 04, 2009, 09:23:03 PM »

Here's another situation that could actually happen. The head mechanic is bowling. After he gets his strike he puts on his shoe cover and hurries to the back end to help a new pinboy with a problem. The bowler following him had not gotten on the approach before he heads back there. Foul? -- JohnP

icefiction · « **Reply #35 on:** March 04, 2009, 09:33:54 PM »

i know at college tourneys we go by the rule that once that bowler steps off the back of the approach after the shot is thrown its over and he can do what ever he wants.
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J_w73 · « **Reply #36 on:** March 04, 2009, 10:21:30 PM »

quote:
i know at college tourneys we go by the rule that once that bowler steps off the back of the approach after the shot is thrown its over and he can do what ever he wants.
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sounds acceptable.. but before that any touch over the line is a foul

that would be a perfect addition to the USBC rule.
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16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205,PBA Xperience ave180

J_w73 · « **Reply #37 on:** March 05, 2009, 03:46:04 PM »

My original question and response from USBC.. based on the rule it is a foul..
they would not make a ruling though.

question:
The anchor bowler in the 3rd game of a 3 game league set releases his 12th shot for an attempt at a 300 game. The bowler is behind the foul line and in control of his body until the ball hits the pins. Upon realization that he strikes and bowled a 300 game the bowler collapses to his knees in celebration and slams his hands down on the approach and across the foul line.

What is the ruling? Is this a foul?

Would there be a different ruling if this happened to the first bowler? I ask in case there is a time limit or a point at which the game ends that may negate any fouls from crossing the line.

Response:

According to Rule 5a, a foul is committed when any part of a
bowlerâ€™s
body encroaches on or goes beyond the foul line and touches any part
of
the lane, equipment or building after executing a legal delivery.

We cannot make a ruling in this situation because we did not see it
and
we have only one persons viewpoint as to what happened.

When we have an apparent foul, it is fairly simple call to make.

However, when it is not clear as to whether or not a person actually
fouled, we do an investigation into the matter.

We request the league to conduct a board meeting to gather information
and make a decision.

We then ask for the board meeting minutes along with comments from the
league officers.

Also, any member of the league including the bowler involved can
provide comments and relative information.

In some situations, we even ask the center for their comments if the
challenge involves the operation of the foul detecting devices.

QUESTION:::

bring this to a hypothetical situation then....
If it is positive that the person put his hands over the line and
touched the lane..

if they touched the lane past the foul line EVEN IN CELEBRATION before
a succeeding delivery.. then it is a foul?? ..
It would also be a foul if there wasnt a possible succeeding delivery
after him??

Response:

"I cannot say yes it was a foul or no it was not a foul because I did not
see it happen.

In all my years of bowling and working for ABC and now USBC, I have
never hear of this happening.

If this would actually happen, it would be a judgement call by the
league officials or league board based on eye witness testimony."

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16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205,PBA Xperience ave180

cheech · « **Reply #38 on:** March 05, 2009, 06:45:04 PM »

sorry if this has been posted i didnt read the whole thread but i remember a rule stating that a ball is in play until the next delivery is being thrown(as said) or until the player has stepped off the approach. i could be wrong though
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HG:300x2(SR300 both)
HS:792(SR300)
2004 NYSPHSAA team champions
2007 NYSPHSAA individual high game(300) and series(1411-6 games)
arsenal: sauce rival arch rival dead flush blue vibe scout jazz SR300 plastic
sacred heart university bowling, frosh.
greatest accomplishment:shooting 603 and not shooting one 200 game(130,173,300)...lol
p.s. go leftys

tc300 · « **Reply #39 on:** March 05, 2009, 07:33:50 PM »

this F'n sh t has happend to me!!!!!!! afetr last ball was flush in jumped with joy and a buddy came run'n to high 5 me... hes 6'5 300lbs, knocked me back a lil and stepped on the foul line... the d$ckhed league sec. took protested and took my 300 game away... :~<
oh... hes one of my dads bowling buddys and friend, how nice

J_w73 · « **Reply #40 on:** March 06, 2009, 10:36:09 AM »

quote:

Totally agree with kidjete here, there's something wrong with your head j_w73. By your logic, a foul could be committed 15 minutes after the set ends. No foul can be committed between games, because there is no play going on at the time. Last I looked, a game was defined as being completed after the fill ball is delivered by the final bowler on a team, and said ball exists the playing surface and enters the pit.

The game was over, no foul was committed, and you are a scumbag for even asking this question. The man shot 300, and from the way it sounds, it was his first. If you're looking for any possible way to cheat another bowler out of an honor score, you need to take your ball and go home. Go cry somewhere else, tool.

you don't know me.. and I'm not a scumbag.
So if it was the lead off bowler is it the same scenario in your eyes??
I am just bringing up the point to find out what the rule is. Everyone can say he deserves the 300 all they want but if the rule is that it is a foul then it is a foul. Don't get mad at me that the USBC leaves it open to interpretation with their ambiguous rule.

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16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205,PBA Xperience ave180

J_w73 · « **Reply #41 on:** March 06, 2009, 10:38:44 AM »

quote:
this F'n sh t has happend to me!!!!!!! afetr last ball was flush in jumped with joy and a buddy came run'n to high 5 me... hes 6'5 300lbs, knocked me back a lil and stepped on the foul line... the d$ckhed league sec. took protested and took my 300 game away... :~<
oh... hes one of my dads bowling buddys and friend, how nice

sorry about that.. that sucks..

but thank you..

you answered the question for everyone here.

FOUL..
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16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205,PBA Xperience ave180

Monster Pike · « **Reply #42 on:** March 06, 2009, 11:28:00 AM »

Did the foul light come on? If not, prove the person fouled.... No foul.
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"The last time I saw a mouth like that, it had a hook in it." Rodney Dangerfield

J_w73 · « **Reply #43 on:** March 06, 2009, 11:40:11 AM »

quote:
Did the foul light come on? If not, prove the person fouled.... No foul.
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"The last time I saw a mouth like that, it had a hook in it." Rodney Dangerfield

lights or buzzers do not have to go off for a foul.

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16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205,PBA Xperience ave180

9andaWiggle · « **Reply #44 on:** March 06, 2009, 11:44:57 AM »

quote:
Why don't people want to follow the rules. They are there for a reason.

Why is there always some killjoy who has to nit-pick everything to the letter and not have the common sense to see the "spirit of the rule"? Now, the guy kicking the end caps is different, I'd call the foul on that just to keep him from tearing the place up. But to call a foul (or even think about it) on somebody who drops to their knees in celebration of a momentous achievement and accidentally crosses the line by so little as a hair, when it's clear the delivery was solid and all the pins are down, is really a low class, scumbag thing to do. I'd say anyone who would call foul in that situation is not a gentleman and is an all around poor sport.

There are times to stick to the rules. However, this is one of those times to think about the true intent of the rule, grant a little leniency, and show a little class mixed with sportsmanship. Just shake the man's hand and say "Nice game".

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9~

Internet Tough Guy

Cyberspace Sheep Lover

J_w73 · « **Reply #45 on:** March 06, 2009, 11:51:25 AM »

quote:
quote:
Why don't people want to follow the rules. They are there for a reason.

Why is there always some killjoy who has to nit-pick everything to the letter and not have the common sense to see the "spirit of the rule"? Now, the guy kicking the end caps is different, I'd call the foul on that just to keep him from tearing the place up. But to call a foul (or even think about it) on somebody who drops to their knees in celebration of a momentous achievement and accidentally crosses the line by so little as a hair, when it's clear the delivery was solid and all the pins are down, is really a low class, scumbag thing to do. I'd say anyone who would call foul in that situation is not a gentleman and is an all around poor sport.

There are times to stick to the rules. However, this is one of those times to think about the true intent of the rule, grant a little leniency, and show a little class mixed with sportsmanship. Just shake the man's hand and say "Nice game".

--------------------
9~

Internet Tough Guy

Cyberspace Sheep Lover

I think I understand now..

anger - foul
celebration - no foul

--------------------
16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205,PBA Xperience ave180

Author Topic: what would you do 2.. (Read 6553 times)

J_w73

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