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Author Topic: Why are older urethane balls better?  (Read 21266 times)

jensm

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Why are older urethane balls better?
« on: September 27, 2013, 12:40:26 AM »
Since the shorter oil patterns (33-36 ft) were introduced in international championships, there seems to have been a rising demand among bowlers on the best national teams for urethane balls manufactured in the late 1980s and early 1990s. One of these bowlers told me that this is due to modern urethane balls being 'tamer' than older ones. Why is that? Lower RG? Better COR? Or what?
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jensm

 

charlest

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Re: Why are older urethane balls better?
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2013, 04:27:39 AM »
Older urethane balls had more urethane in them than do "modern" urethanes, which are really blends of urethane and resin, in order to get more length.

Older urethanes tend to hook fairly early requiring more ball speed to enable them to conserve some energy. Modern ones get more length, more like resins, to allow you to use them better. Bowlers who never used older urethanes also prefer the better length and feel comfortable, mentally and physically, using them. I think older players feels more comfortable using the earlier rolling, older urethanes.
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

jensm

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Re: Why are older urethane balls better?
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2013, 07:37:57 AM »
Thanks Charlest! Could it simply be that the modern urethane/resin blends create too much friction and slow down too much on the shorter short patterns (33-34 ft) to be really effective? I guess that could be it.

Regards,

jensm

Jesse James

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Re: Why are older urethane balls better?
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2013, 08:35:57 AM »
Charlest is our resident technical expert on covers and all things bowling balls!

However, from a layman's point of view.......when you are able to "lock-in" on a release and breakpoint using the older urethanes.......regardless of how the pattern breaks down.....these balls remain remarkably consistent in motion, arc shape and carry! That's just my 2 cents.

I have a Blue, Black, and Burgundy urethane Hammer(s) from the 80's.
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jensm

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Re: Why are older urethane balls better?
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2013, 10:10:17 AM »
So, the cover/core combo in several older urethane balls is better than the modern ones?

I think the specifications for manufacturing bowling balls in the late 1980s and the early 1990s allowed for lower RG than now. I read somewhere that these ball specifications were altered in 1994. No details about these altered specs, though.
Regards,

jensm

kidlost2000

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Re: Why are older urethane balls better?
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2013, 10:22:15 AM »
No most core numbers then are used now. The karma urethane is a very early urethane ball. It is also dull. Many of today's urethane are polished, pearls, or have a box finish near 4000 grit. Many older urethanes were much duller at box finish. Not all, but many. Adjust surface of today's urethane and see a difference.
…… you can't  add a physics term to a bowling term and expect it to mean something.

avabob

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Re: Why are older urethane balls better?
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2013, 10:59:09 AM »
Many urethane balls of the 80's were 400-600 finish out of the box.  Cores were not as strong though.  First really low rg cores didn't come out till after resin in 93.  You had to continually keep sanding the shells on the old urethanes to get any kind of performance.  Also, even those balls soaked up oil, which made simply sanding not very effective in returning balls to factory.

  Guys on tour were making a living with high rev rollout shots ( Ballard )  So many things have changed with oils that it is difficult to compare urethanes from the 80's to todays balls.  Low viscosity oils, buffed to 24 feet made it a different world.  Also, todays bowlers are generally much higher rev players with lots more ball speed than the top players of the 80's. 

   
« Last Edit: September 27, 2013, 11:02:43 AM by avabob »

charlest

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Re: Why are older urethane balls better?
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2013, 11:13:19 AM »
So, the cover/core combo in several older urethane balls is better than the modern ones?

I think the specifications for manufacturing bowling balls in the late 1980s and the early 1990s allowed for lower RG than now. I read somewhere that these ball specifications were altered in 1994. No details about these altered specs, though.


Not better, in general, just different. I think that whether you think the older or the newer ones are better depends on your games, what oil conditions you face and your bowling reaction references.

Many of the newer ones are quite eary reacting, just like the old ones; The include the Columbia U2, Brunswick Karma urethane, AMF Hype Urethane (had one; VERY, VERY early rolling), RG Grenade, Storm Natural, a few others.
Please don't tell me yours, if included in the above list, doesn't roll early if you have 20 mph ball speed and 250 rpms.)

The urethane/resin blends of today tend to go longer than the dull, sanded solid urethanes of the 1980s. The resin part allows the ball to get more length, save more energy and have ore backend than many of the older urethanes.

Most/many of the older ones had simple pancakes core and even the Hammer cores, while being more dynamic than a pancake core, still flared very little compared to the newer ones.

The RG minimum was recently (last 5 years or so) changed from a low of 2.44 to a low of 2.46 or 2.47. I don't recall as the change was of so little importance that it was no change at all. In any case, as someone already said, most of the older ones never had RGs that low. Their hooking ability came almost strictly from the cover, not the core.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2013, 11:24:04 AM by charlest »
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jensm

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Re: Why are older urethane balls better?
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2013, 12:49:22 PM »
I still have to wonder why so many of the best male bowlers at the WTBA World Championships in Las Vegas this August included one or more old urethane balls in the six balls they were were allowed to register. Choi Bok Eum of South Korea checked in three Sumos, I believe. Why were the older urethane balls so right for the 33 ft WTBA Sydney pattern?
Regards,

jensm

hudman

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Re: Why are older urethane balls better?
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2013, 01:19:34 PM »
The old Hammers started turning as soon as they hit the lane. I got rid of all of mine in the mid 1990's when I accepted the fact that I couldn't hit the head pin with them. They hooked so early and so much that they hit really soft due to the expended energy. I have a hard time believing they would work on the standard house shot today. I know I couldn't throw one because I need my ball to skid.

ginro

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Re: Why are older urethane balls better?
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2013, 01:32:14 PM »
I still have to wonder why so many of the best male bowlers at the WTBA World Championships in Las Vegas this August included one or more old urethane balls in the six balls they were were allowed to register. Choi Bok Eum of South Korea checked in three Sumos, I believe. Why were the older urethane balls so right for the 33 ft WTBA Sydney pattern?
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UCFalum300

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Re: Why are older urethane balls better?
« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2013, 02:16:02 PM »
I am very good friends who works with one of the big companies out there. I have had this talk with him. Charlest kind of had it right when saying the older ones had more urethane in them. Not even talking about cores the main difference is the chemicals used to make the urethane have changed. The chemicals used back then are either not available now or are at such a high price that they are not feasible to purchase and use for bowling balls. I am a chemist and doing my job over the past 15 years (having nothing to do with bowling) have seen chemical prices change and even not be available as easily as they once were. So changes have to be made to produce the next best option
Shawn Naumann

charlest

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Re: Why are older urethane balls better?
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2013, 04:32:09 PM »
I still have to wonder why so many of the best male bowlers at the WTBA World Championships in Las Vegas this August included one or more old urethane balls in the six balls they were were allowed to register. Choi Bok Eum of South Korea checked in three Sumos, I believe. Why were the older urethane balls so right for the 33 ft WTBA Sydney pattern?

Don't assume without asking the ones who used them and investigating their release/delivery.
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

kidlost2000

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Re: Why are older urethane balls better?
« Reply #13 on: September 27, 2013, 10:12:40 PM »
Likely because there has been so little urethane available that many bought up or found what they wanted at bowling alley racks, pawn shops, garage sales, ect.

As far as cores, like mentioned most were pancake at first before going to light bulb shaped cores ect. The JPF Axe and Brunswick Phantoms had the most advanced of cores for that time.

The original blue hammer core

http://www.bowlingballvault.com/companies/12-hammer/1052-blue-hammer

http://www.bowlingballvault.com/companies/12-hammer/1054-burgandy-hammer

the new release blue hammer

http://www.bowlingballvault.com/companies/12-hammer/1529-blue-hammer-remake

Similar cores specs, one is 800 grit one is 4000 grit. Big difference on the lanes.

The more advanced urethane cores, the Phantom

http://www.bowlingballvault.com/companies/3-brunswick/580-phantom

But, you don't see many people using them. You want early, any of todays bowling balls at 800 grit will give you early. Many on most conditions will give you hook stop reaction urethane like from years ago.
…… you can't  add a physics term to a bowling term and expect it to mean something.

jensm

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Re: Why are older urethane balls better?
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2013, 03:33:14 AM »
As far as release/delivery is concerned all the bowlers on the Korean team have excellent fundamentals and elite releases/deliveries. They seemed to be able to vary their releases/deliveries as well as the bowlers on Team USA.

In the Masters final Cho Young-Seon beat Chris Barnes using a urethane ball sanded to 180. That ball crossed Barnes line twice each throw. Barnes lost his shot while the Korean kept hitting the pocket.

I guess that the properties of several older urethane balls fit some of the best bowlers in the world elite better than the urethane stuff produced today.

Regards,

jensm