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Author Topic: Yahoo news article on PBA 900, the comments say it all  (Read 8640 times)

Gizmo823

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Yahoo news article on PBA 900, the comments say it all
« on: April 22, 2013, 01:02:18 PM »
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/north-carolina-man-rolls-1st-152314978--spt.html

Scroll down and read the comments.  Some are more positive than I expected, but there's no denying the collective public opinion.  HIGH SCORES ARE BAD FOR BOWLING, point and case.  So unfortunate for this guy who REALLY accomplished something to have it regarded like this. 
What would you be if you were attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis?

 

MrNickRo

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Re: Yahoo news article on PBA 900, the comments say it all
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2013, 01:37:57 PM »
The loudest people are not the majority.  Yahoo articles are notoriously known for having the worst articles/comment sections around.

But, it still shows many people outside of bowling will never understand.

Gizmo823

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Re: Yahoo news article on PBA 900, the comments say it all
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2013, 02:19:39 PM »
Yes true, but it's this these kinds of people that bowling is being marketed to.  How do we turn the ignorant people around? 
What would you be if you were attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis?

MrNickRo

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Re: Yahoo news article on PBA 900, the comments say it all
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2013, 02:40:37 PM »
Because bowling is something that almost everybody has 'played', it is looked at differently.  Professional bowling looks like regular bowling, so people make judgments about it based on their experiences.

There are far fewer people who make judgments or have opinions of more popular sports because they haven't experienced it on that same level.  They leave professional football and its intricacies up to the professionals and announcers because they haven't done it.  This could be one of the main reasons bowling is looked at from such a different perspective.

Urethane Game

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Re: Yahoo news article on PBA 900, the comments say it all
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2013, 02:56:34 PM »
It is a great score but I would say for most people entering the tournament a greater "accomplishment" would be to win the tournament.  He's currently 16th and only 73 over for his other games of qualifying.

charlest

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Re: Yahoo news article on PBA 900, the comments say it all
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2013, 03:47:20 PM »
Because bowling is something that almost everybody has 'played', it is looked at differently.  Professional bowling looks like regular bowling, so people make judgments about it based on their experiences.

There are far fewer people who make judgments or have opinions of more popular sports because they haven't experienced it on that same level.  They leave professional football and its intricacies up to the professionals and announcers because they haven't done it.  This could be one of the main reasons bowling is looked at from such a different perspective.

You know, I generally agree with the above, but most people have also played golf. They don't play under the same conditions that the PGA does, yet they don't have the same opinion about golf that they do about bowling.
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

MrNickRo

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Re: Yahoo news article on PBA 900, the comments say it all
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2013, 03:53:58 PM »
Golf always makes for good comparisons.  I know this has been stated before, but golf is so visually different.  Seeing a pro swing 2X as hard as the average player is a pretty obvious difference.  And of course there's the course. 


swingset

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Re: Yahoo news article on PBA 900, the comments say it all
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2013, 04:53:45 PM »
Yahoo news comment section? Seriously?

It's well known to be full of nothing but negative trolls and idiots. This is not the gauge of anyone that you should be holding up as an example of anything.

Bowling is not broken because people are scoring high. I don't know how you keep arriving at this conclusion, but it's patently absurd. I don't know a single soul who decided to bowl or decided against it based on the "ease of scoring too high".

The problem with bowling is that leagues are down because people are busy, broke, and the sport is viewed more in the cultural lexicon as an anachronistic recreation more than a sport....and this means new lanes aren't being built for serious competition, rather they are being built as family fun centers or night clubs.

Score is not the issue, never was...any more than people scoring better in the 1970's was a detriment compared to the 1940's or 1950's.
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cheech

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Re: Yahoo news article on PBA 900, the comments say it all
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2013, 05:16:04 PM »
granted i still bowl leagues and tournaments but if i know in advance im gonna need to average 230 just to make the cut ill save my money. most of the time i cant carry enough to average 230 for more than 3-4 games especially if im bowling a house i dont know very well

spmcgivern

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Re: Yahoo news article on PBA 900, the comments say it all
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2013, 08:09:12 AM »
Yahoo news comment section? Seriously?

It's well known to be full of nothing but negative trolls and idiots. This is not the gauge of anyone that you should be holding up as an example of anything.

Bowling is not broken because people are scoring high. I don't know how you keep arriving at this conclusion, but it's patently absurd. I don't know a single soul who decided to bowl or decided against it based on the "ease of scoring too high".

The problem with bowling is that leagues are down because people are busy, broke, and the sport is viewed more in the cultural lexicon as an anachronistic recreation more than a sport....and this means new lanes aren't being built for serious competition, rather they are being built as family fun centers or night clubs.

Score is not the issue, never was...any more than people scoring better in the 1970's was a detriment compared to the 1940's or 1950's.

I would like to believe this concept, but golf is more expensive and takes longer than bowling, yet the decline in golf is much smaller than bowling.  Could it be the way the media pushes golf more than bowling?  Perhaps.  But at the same time, just because you haven't heard of someone quitting because of the scores doesn't mean they don't exist.  In fact, I haven't heard of anyone QUITTING bowling because of the cost.  Perhaps reduced their league and tournament participation, but not quit.  Now if you said the fact people are busy and broke is the reason there aren't any NEW bowlers, then perhaps you would be on to something.

I think most people think if the shot were to become more difficult (not sport difficult), then some would quit.  I am not disagreeing with this.  But what needs to be considered is what does a successful sport of bowling look like in 10 or 20 years?  We can't wait till some catastrophic moment to make changes to the sport.  We need to develop a plan to get bowling to a successful sporting position.  And today's game isn't getting us there.

Gizmo823

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Re: Yahoo news article on PBA 900, the comments say it all
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2013, 09:07:36 AM »
Yahoo news comment section? Seriously?

It's well known to be full of nothing but negative trolls and idiots. This is not the gauge of anyone that you should be holding up as an example of anything.

Bowling is not broken because people are scoring high. I don't know how you keep arriving at this conclusion, but it's patently absurd. I don't know a single soul who decided to bowl or decided against it based on the "ease of scoring too high".

The problem with bowling is that leagues are down because people are busy, broke, and the sport is viewed more in the cultural lexicon as an anachronistic recreation more than a sport....and this means new lanes aren't being built for serious competition, rather they are being built as family fun centers or night clubs.

Score is not the issue, never was...any more than people scoring better in the 1970's was a detriment compared to the 1940's or 1950's.

So you have several years of industry experience, seeing the numbers, hearing from industry vets, and people very heavily involved in the sport at a professional level to base this opinion on I'm assuming?  "I don't know how you keep arriving at this conclusion."  You think this is some idea or opinion that randomly popped into my head one day that I'm trying to make into my own personal crusade?  Everybody wants to tell me about the CURRENT state of bowling, yes, DUH, I get how it currently is, I WORK IN THE INDUSTRY.  But what everybody keeps skipping over is how it got there in the first place. 

I'm not saying it's the ONLY reason, but it's THE reason that bowling has shifted from competitive to casual, and when a sport shifts down to casual, you don't have the same die hards keeping the sport alive.  People won't bowl scratch leagues, because "the scores are too high."  Scratch bowlers won't touch anything that has anything to do with handicap, because of all the sandbaggers.  I had a team that almost got kicked out of a handicap league because we were accused of "loading up a team" to win the league.  Win the league we did, and in impressive fashion.  Know what our prize winnings were?  190 bucks a person.  Just screams loading up a team to bowl 35 weeks to make less than 200 bucks, doesn't it?  Got a buddy that's 35, averages 235, and he quit bowling last year because it all boiled down to carry.  If he carries, he shoots 750+, if he doesn't, he shoots 680.  Said he was sick of being disappointed every time he lost a shot at a big game or big set.  If you don't shoot 300 or 800 anymore, it doesn't matter.  Leagues are small, and people balk at increasing league fees to beef up the prize fund, so there's no reason to be competitive.  The handicap bowlers don't practice, they just whine for more handicap so they don't HAVE to improve, and the scratch bowlers don't practice because you can't practice carry.  In ADDITION to bowling several leagues a week, people also spent time practicing, because bowling used to be about how you threw the ball and where you threw it.  Now you just have to hook it a bunch and throw it hard and keep it right of the headpin, and you'll have a good shot at some big games.  Even SCRATCH leagues on house shots aren't that competitive anymore.  People spend more time joking about, "just throw it anywhere," than they do congratulating people for good shots.  Everybody knows it's a crap shoot and a carry contest, so it's hard to get into it when you know the outcome of the game is dependent on who leaves the 9 pin, or who carries the 10, instead of who is making the shots. 

Bowling has been made into a constant quest for the big numbers, or just an inside activity during the winter to keep you occupied while you drink.  The true competition for the scratch bowlers doesn't exist anymore, the lower average bowlers can't keep up, so they get discouraged and quit, and you can't count on the casual bowlers for any kind of consistency.  I GUARANTEE if you return the integrity to bowling that the sport picks up again.  How else do you explain the continuing decline of USBC membership as a whole, but the increase of interest and participation in sport bowling, especially by the youths, a group you'd never think would embrace extra challenge or work?  Rick Benoit has recently put some finishing touches on his BowlU endeavor, which should finally start getting bowling going in the right direction again.  Mark my words, as the current generation bowler gets older and/or quits, the youth who are participating in high integrity bowling will push for a return to how bowling used to be, or at the very least to adjust it for modern times, and bowling will go back up when the scoring pace goes down. 

Things that are going good will survive ANY economical problems.  The NFL and PGA don't seem to know we had a recession, so why is that an acceptable excuse for bowling?  Amateur participation rates have ZERO to do with a professional sport's success.  I've never played a game of tackle football in my life, but I'll watch it every Sunday.  Bowling takes all my golf money, so I don't golf much, but I still watch a lot on tv.  Several things may have contributed to bringing bowling down, but it only takes one domino falling to knock the rest of them down. 
What would you be if you were attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis?

akt22

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Re: Yahoo news article on PBA 900, the comments say it all
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2013, 01:52:36 PM »
I think one of the problems is perception; professional bowling is caught b/w a rock and a hard place when it comes to demographs. It's not luxurious enough to attract the rich and famous like golf and it's not cool enough to resonate with the younger generations like other sports.

txbowler

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Re: Yahoo news article on PBA 900, the comments say it all
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2013, 03:46:18 PM »
Again, what is the incentive for scoring pace to be lowered?

Tradition is not the answer

Because it was that way when bowling was at its peak?  Not the answer.  Even at bowling's peak, the pro tour stops had maybe 400 entries per stop.  150 entries in the qualifier.

Until someone somewhere figures out how the top 200 professional bowlers on the tour can earn 6-7 figure salaries like all the other sports, there is no financial incentive for anyone to put in the time and effort to become one of the best.

Right now, if you are not top 100 in the world at this sport, you can earn more working your 9-5 job and come home each night, sleep in your own bed and kiss your wife and children goodnight.

Most of the people who bowl for a living, are the die-hards.

You have a child who excels at both golf and bowling.  You are going tell me that you are going to tell your child to give up the million dollar career at golf and focus on that $50,000 a yr bowling career.  What parent is going to tell their child to do that.

I don't care what the scoring pace is.  No money = no increasing membership

Gizmo823

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Re: Yahoo news article on PBA 900, the comments say it all
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2013, 03:59:24 PM »
Again, what is the incentive for scoring pace to be lowered?

Tradition is not the answer

Because it was that way when bowling was at its peak?  Not the answer.  Even at bowling's peak, the pro tour stops had maybe 400 entries per stop.  150 entries in the qualifier.

Until someone somewhere figures out how the top 200 professional bowlers on the tour can earn 6-7 figure salaries like all the other sports, there is no financial incentive for anyone to put in the time and effort to become one of the best.

Right now, if you are not top 100 in the world at this sport, you can earn more working your 9-5 job and come home each night, sleep in your own bed and kiss your wife and children goodnight.

Most of the people who bowl for a living, are the die-hards.

You have a child who excels at both golf and bowling.  You are going tell me that you are going to tell your child to give up the million dollar career at golf and focus on that $50,000 a yr bowling career.  What parent is going to tell their child to do that.

I don't care what the scoring pace is.  No money = no increasing membership

But the money was lost when the scoring pace increased . . when the scoring pace made no different between the pros and amateurs apparent, that's when bowling went downhill.  When people stop participating and/or watching, money goes downhill.  Things have to change to bring the money back, it's not going to magically show back up on its own. 
What would you be if you were attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis?

txbowler

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Re: Yahoo news article on PBA 900, the comments say it all
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2013, 04:20:43 PM »
You and I just have to agree to disagree on this one.

I think the money has to come first and I do not believe scoring pace will bring it.

I do however think that if the money rose the the levels of other sports, then bowlers would join the ranks as they would have financial incentive to do so.

Just like poker.  Once the tournaments starting paying major bucks, people quit their day jobs to become professional poker players.  The same thing would need to happen for "professional" bowling to blossom.

If you believe that lowering the scoring pace will ultimately fix bowling, it will be a slow 10-20 year process.  However, money could turn it around much faster.  In a couple of years.  But someone has to have that major idea for the money to happen.