Author Topic: You really think the PBA bowlers are the best..? (Read 7099 times)

302efi · « **on:** November 09, 2007, 04:54:10 PM »

I see all these people saying how great they are and knowing when to adjust ect...but yet I still them shoot sub 200 games on TV and in match play.

The pros bowl on the same 5 patterns week in and out, shouldn't they have mastered the patterns by now ?

We should expect them to shoot 260+ every game, no ?

"The best in the world" I keep hearing...

Same names over and over, WRW, PDW, PBIII, TJ blah blah blah

There plenty of guys that don't (or didn't) turn pro that would clean house on the tour. A guy like Tim Mack would wreck havoc on Tour in IMO.

Any thoughts on this?

(I'm not talking about the guys that only avg 200 and get a PBA card just for the ball discounts)
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Using older Lane #1 again

When faced with a difficult situation, Jesus asks himself, "What would Chuck Norris do?"

Robo-Arm bowlers SUCK...

HamPster · « **Reply #16 on:** November 10, 2007, 11:41:30 AM »

I'm not saying it's necessarily a stupid question, I'm just saying it's an ignorant one, because he obviously has no clue or perception about what it takes to bowl at the pro level yet. I had the priveledge to see Rick Benoit put the Brunswick guys through the ringer at the Pro Staff Training Camp they had here . . and trust me when I say these guys are all incredible. If you're halfway competitive on the pro tour, you're good. Very very good. There's more than just the shot, there's lane topography, like one poster said, depends on what area of the country you're in, whether it's humid or dry, what season of the year it is, what type of lane surface it is, etc. Every house has it's own characteristics. You can have two synthetic houses five miles from each other, but they could play completely different. Sit down with Rick Benoit for 5 minutes, and after he's completely blown your mind, he'll get into the real stuff.

How about good league bowlers? Same house, same shot week after week. We know what we're going into every week, and Tim Mack couldn't average 260+ for a season on an easy house shot in the same place week after week, so that's why his comment is ignorant.
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This is Fluffy. He is the Destroyer of Worlds.

JessN16 · « **Reply #17 on:** November 10, 2007, 12:21:04 PM »

Yes, they're the best. Not even a close call.

Someone will have to remind me the last time an amateur won a nationally significant event (that means tour stops or USBC-sanctioned events; the amateur-only high-dollar events don't count when PBA members aren't eligible). What I do know at this point is you have an amateur virtually every week coming up from the TQR and I'm still waiting on one to actually make an impact.

It's not about averaging 260 on patterns that were specifically designed to keep professionals from averaging 260. It's about putting pros and amateurs on that same pattern and see who takes themselves out of the running over the course of a tournament. Even a decent amateur can hit 250 on one of the named patterns once or twice, but their bad games will be lower and more frequent than the pros.

I'm sure there are a half-dozen amateurs around the world who can play on the PBA tour -- I wouldn't blame them for not signing up given the financial situation pro bowling finds itself in -- but those half-dozen wouldn't dominate the tour. They'd compete, but not dominate. If they could dominate, they'd be on the PBA tour anyway, because anyone who can truly dominate that format will still be able to get rich off it (see Walter Ray, Barnes, Weber, Duke, etc.).

Jess

302efi · « **Reply #18 on:** November 10, 2007, 12:24:10 PM »

Well I'm glad to see some you guys got it and some didn't and I can always count on someone from the Brunswick compound to be a smartass:

quote:
It's easy to have an opinion, we all do. But there are educated opinions and UNeducated opinions. Most fall in the latter.

Sure makes me want to buy your products when you insult would be customers...but thats another topic

I never said I was trying to go PBA..lol...Personally I think its a overhyped joke. The PBA and said companies try to make the bowlers equal to the superstars in other sports and it will just never be.

Lets take lasts week show for instance. Look at WRW...A great bowler would have adjusted after the first couple of flat 10's, no ? When I was watching it, I couldn't belive that people consider him the greatest and to watch him no adjusting for a flat 10 ?...Somethings wrong here.

You guys say what about league hacks avg 230-240 and they are just that, hacks. Same THS, same line 24/7.

So may opinion still stands: PBA good ?..Yes

PBA bowlers the greatest ?...Nope
--------------------
Using older Lane #1 again

When faced with a difficult situation, Jesus asks himself, "What would Chuck Norris do?"

Robo-Arm bowlers SUCK...

Monster Pike · « **Reply #19 on:** November 10, 2007, 12:45:20 PM »

quote:

Lets take lasts week show for instance. Look at WRW...A great bowler would have adjusted after the first couple of flat 10's, no ? When I was watching it, I couldn't belive that people consider him the greatest and to watch him no adjusting for a flat 10 ?...Somethings wrong here.

You guys say what about league hacks avg 230-240 and they are just that, hacks. Same THS, same line 24/7.

So may opinion still stands: PBA good ?..Yes

PBA bowlers the greatest ?...Nope
--------------------
Using older Lane #1 again

When faced with a difficult situation, Jesus asks himself, "What would Chuck Norris do?"

Robo-Arm bowlers SUCK...

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Then who are the greatest bowlers? Jeff Carter avgd. 260 plus last year in his league but didn't win a tournament. PDW almost rolled a 300 against him. Tony Reyes & Ryan Shafer both rolled 300's on TV. Who's better than the PBA guys?
Just grip it & rip it!

Edited on 11/10/2007 1:47 PM

Mike Austin · « **Reply #20 on:** November 10, 2007, 12:55:51 PM »

quote:
Well I'm glad to see some you guys got it and some didn't and I can always count on someone from the Brunswick compound to be a smartass:

quote:
It's easy to have an opinion, we all do. But there are educated opinions and UNeducated opinions. Most fall in the latter.

Sure makes me want to buy your products when you insult would be customers...but thats another topic

I never said I was trying to go PBA..lol...Personally I think its a overhyped joke. The PBA and said companies try to make the bowlers equal to the superstars in other sports and it will just never be.

Lets take lasts week show for instance. Look at WRW...A great bowler would have adjusted after the first couple of flat 10's, no ? When I was watching it, I couldn't belive that people consider him the greatest and to watch him no adjusting for a flat 10 ?...Somethings wrong here.

You guys say what about league hacks avg 230-240 and they are just that, hacks. Same THS, same line 24/7.

So may opinion still stands: PBA good ?..Yes

PBA bowlers the greatest ?...Nope
--------------------
Using older Lane #1 again

When faced with a difficult situation, Jesus asks himself, "What would Chuck Norris do?"

Robo-Arm bowlers SUCK...

What is it they say? "Opinions are like As@@@@@, everybody has one"

What do you base your opinions on? The Tour players are the best in the world, period. There are some ams that could do well, but they haven't tried, so we really won't know unless they do. There isn't enough incentive ($) to get Belmonte, Osku, Mack, Moor them to come over here and try the tour. The learning curve is steep. Why should they give up the good money they are making now? They are probably Tour quality players bowling against mostly hacks in the tournaments they bowl, they have an advantage.

I have bowled against most all the tour guys numbers of times. They are head and shoulders above all of us league hacks and regional hacks. If you have half a bowling brain, this is plain to see. There are not "plenty of guys that would clean house on the tour". Tim Mack failed miserably, and he is a good bowler, he just couldn't cut the Tour grind.

Why is Rico not allowed to have an opinion? What does his opinion have to do with Brunswick equipment? Ric didn't insult anyone, he just said you have an uneducated opinino. He is right! Your opinion is just that an opinion. You don't have an PBA/Tour educated reference. Ric is around the game, the players, the conditions, that is part of his job. He knows what he is talking about. There is more to doing well on tour than what you see on the TV show. Mutating, that word is mild. I don't think the TV Lights has been mentioned either, it is HOT bowling on TV. I wasn't even fat then, and I was sweating like a pig. It's okay to state your thoughts as opinion, it stirs conversation. But don't spout your opinion as gospel.

I have seen too often how bad the THS superstars suck on the PBA patterns and Sport patterns. Yet the Tour level players will always come out on top in those situations. They are mentally tougher, don't get rattled when they are not stringing strikes. On a THS a league bowler has a better chance against the tour guy, because not as much accuracy is needed and more luck (carry) is involved, so the house hacks can play at home. Get them out of their home, and it is game over. I NEVER have the high average in my leagues, having booked around 230 the last few years. I almost ALWAYS beat the guys that out average me in league when we bowl regionals and tournaments. It is a different mindset. But then the Malotts, Barneses, and PDWs usually beat me like a drum too.

sorry blood sugar is low, gotta go eat!

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Just because they make it in your size, doesn't mean you should wear it!!!

Check out my project: www.mikeaustinbowling.net

CHECK OUT MY BLOGS! www.myspace.com/strikes4days

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302efi · « **Reply #21 on:** November 10, 2007, 01:06:18 PM »

LOL..Looks like a I rattled a few of the PBA card holders cages !!!

Mike please got eat some sugar and come back to this topic

And Mike as far as Rico's comments, good business says don't insult the buyers in your market, but like I said, that another topic.

You guys honestly think that WRW is equal to the Michael Jordan of basketball ?!?!?!

--------------------
Using older Lane #1 again

When faced with a difficult situation, Jesus asks himself, "What would Chuck Norris do?"

Robo-Arm bowlers SUCK...

JessN16 · « **Reply #22 on:** November 10, 2007, 01:18:01 PM »

302efi,

If your opinion is the PBA guys aren't the best, it's up to you to prove it. Without evidence, it's just words.

Evidence, incidentally, is not to make a non-sequitur comparison to Michael Jordan and basketball. I don't care how WRW compares to Michael Jordan. I want to know how 50-odd exempt pros compare to 50-odd amateurs.

So, let's hear it.

Jess

Edited on 11/10/2007 2:18 PM

Siniak · « **Reply #23 on:** November 10, 2007, 02:03:42 PM »

Isn't it kind of pointless to crown the pba players the best in the world when they're not actually playing everybody in the world? I look forward to seeing the team usa dream team in action.

DON DRAPER · « **Reply #24 on:** November 10, 2007, 02:04:22 PM »

this topic never fails to interest me. when i hear typical league bowlers claim that the exempt players on the pba tour are not the best in the world it has to make me wonder what their criteria is for being the best.

every sport has the upper ranks of players from a performance standpoint. in tennis the players who win grand slam titles( wimbledon, us open, etc. )are considered the best. in golf the players who win the majors( masters, british open, etc. )are considered the best. in team sports like football, the nfl is the top of the rung. in basketball it's the nba. in baseball it's the major leagues. the point is, these are professionals winning and excelling in their respective fields.

since 1959 the best bowlers have competed on the pba national tour. regardless of the tournament format or the oil pattern laid down they are the elite of their sport. what about players who couldn't compete at this level due to their family or career field ? well, there are players who could have won at this level but didn't so i guess we'll never know. what about international players you ask ? mats karlsson of sweden was a top european player in the 1980's and 1990's and did win several pba titles. amleto monacelli is a pba hall of famer from venezuela and was a multi-titleist and player of the year on the pba tour. both of these players realized that the pba had the best players and to win at that level was the ultimate.

what about amateur players who have foregone the pba route ? well, some have tried the pba. brett wolfe won the abc masters several years ago but when he tried the pba tour the following year he really didn't do much. tore torgerson of norway has been a top international player for sometime now but his one year on the pba tour was hardly what you would call a success. tim mack tried the tour and even before his shoulder injury was less than successful.

great amateur and international players have gone the pba route and done well. mika is a prime example. patrick healey, jr. has done well though not as well as predicted. robert smith has a few titles. rudy kasimakis has never been a factor on the pba national tour. chris barnes is one of the top pba players and has been since 1998. he himself stated that he always knew the best players in the world were on the pba tour and to prove he was the best he would have to win at that level.

junichi yajima has been called " the earl anthony of the jpba ". he has won 41 titles on the japanese professional bowlers association tour. he would have won many titles had he competed on the pba tour. he himself stated that the pba is the top of the rung as far as bowling goes.

it really doesn't matter what opinion the viewers on this board have concerning who the best players are and where they do their bowling. it's rather obvious what the result is: since 1959 the best bowlers in the world belong to the pba. and the cream of that crop are the players who have won over 20 titles.

Hex017 · « **Reply #25 on:** November 10, 2007, 03:26:18 PM »

For one it's plain obvious you are just trying to stir the pot since several people have asked you who is better than the tour guys and you've failed to answer.

Second WRW and Michael Jordan is comparing apples to oranges. WRW IS the MJ of our sport, but you realize there are no teams in bowling, you have to earn money by bowling well, no gauranteed checks, bowling obviously is not held as high in the public eyes as basketball, and the list goes on. But WRW is the arguably the greatest player ever, same as MJ, and they are both the greatest champions in their respective sports.

quote:
LOL..Looks like a I rattled a few of the PBA card holders cages !!!

Mike please got eat some sugar and come back to this topic

And Mike as far as Rico's comments, good business says don't insult the buyers in your market, but like I said, that another topic.

You guys honestly think that WRW is equal to the Michael Jordan of basketball ?!?!?!

--------------------
Using older Lane #1 again

When faced with a difficult situation, Jesus asks himself, "What would Chuck Norris do?"

Robo-Arm bowlers SUCK...

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-If you're not willing to change, you're not willing to improve.

-Life is like a coin, you can spend it any way you want, but you can only spend it once.

-90 percent of the game is half mental
-Yogi Berra

Bill Thomas · « **Reply #26 on:** November 10, 2007, 04:28:43 PM »

302efi,
If you really believe what you posted, you should shoe up and go to a PBA event and show them how good you are. Have you ever tried a PBA condition league, bowled a PBA regional, or shot on anything other than house china? If so, you should know that your post is nonsense.

Monster Pike · « **Reply #27 on:** November 10, 2007, 07:12:43 PM »

quote:
Isn't it kind of pointless to crown the pba players the best in the world when they're not actually playing everybody in the world? I look forward to seeing the team usa dream team in action.

Huhhh??.... They've come here & a couple have succeeded (Mika Koivuniemi & Amletto Monacelli), but most get their butts handed to them (Osku Palerma-unsure of spelling-to name one). The tour is open for these guys to compete. They try & then they go back to their respective countries being real good there. Mika won the Dydo this year w/American Mike Wolfe, I think, finishing 2nd on their turf. So I don't know where that comment is coming from. When one country starts dominating the American PBA guys with more than 5 or 6 bowlers winning titles then you can say they aren't the best in the world. Even if Mika wins 5 more titles himself this year & is bowler of the year, that doesn't make Finland the best bowling country. So until then, the question still stands, WHO is better? The guy who thinks he is, but won't go & compete on tour? I don't think so.
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Just grip it & rip it!

Edited on 11/10/2007 8:16 PM

Mark T. Trgovac · « **Reply #28 on:** November 10, 2007, 11:03:51 PM »

quote:
I just want to say these guys are the best in the world. If you watch them they will shoot one maybe 2 games under 200 during match play. Most are mid 200s second I noticed your average on a pba league. notice how it was 30 pins lower then your house shot league. Each shot will play slightly different at each center. They arent bowling at the same place like we do in league day in and day out. Also they are averaging 220plus for the year on these conditions. They make these shots look like house shots to us. But in reality they are that good accurate. Yes they will have a bad game once lanes transition then they pick it right back up the next game when they find it again. You would just have to bowl on the stuff to see how it is. Also your pba league while it is a sport shot unless they have the right equipment and oils will still be easier then a true pba pattern. I know been there done that.

Can I ask why you pointed out how my pba league ave was 30 pins lower then my house ave. I kinda got the feeling you were making that statement to me. I agree that the pba players are the best in the world. My statements were to say why the statement of, "If they bowl on only 5 shots week in and out, shouldnt they master them.", that is what I was saying.
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Mark "scoot" Trgovac
C-G Pro Shop
Offical "Spokesman"
Youngstown, Ohio

Finishing THS book ave: 200
Finishing PBA Experence ave: 176
Finishing Composit ave: 194

Track HITMAN.

Tag Team Coaching Success Story.

Mike Austin · « **Reply #29 on:** November 11, 2007, 03:53:34 AM »

302efi,

Sorry my man, I got busy after eating earlier today, didn't mean to shy away.

Hex kinda hit it on the head. Many would consider WRW the best ever in our sport, but I think it is a little hard to compare bowling to a team sport. Golf or tennis are better comparisons to me. Yes, I think WRW is probably the best ever. (I think PDW is the most talented, but he had other issues keeping him from being the best ever) I just don't feel that Walter dominated the way Tiger is doing in golf. Sampras dominated in tennis, but their careers are much shorter than golf or bowling. Lendl, Borg, McEnroe, and the guy on top right now

all ruled for a period of time. I don't know enough about tennis to crown one of them king of all time.

I wanted to mention about the patterns. Yes there are 5. Yes there are 3 oiling volumes, making 15 variations. Then you have the surfaces, the same pattern will not play the same on different surfaces. Anvil Lane, Pro Anvil Lane, AMF HPL, DBA, VIA??, and a couple others, plus wood (The Tour doesn't bowl on wood, maybe once). Then throw in the humidity, altitude, weather, climate, season, etc.. factors. Holy Crap!! They will never really play the same twice.

Regionals, Tour, and Experience Leagues are really three different animals. The Tour guys all play the lanes like a team. They play the same part of the lane, and than BAM!!! the shot blows open and they start striking like mothers... In regionals, not quite the same. The better players play the lanes correctly and together. The rub is these guys make up less than half the field. Many of the part time regional guys, and most all of the guests don't always play on the correct part of the lane. Therefore, the lanes get broken down in a mish mash fashion. All of the previous factors come into play and then add in the "Toe" factor, for lack of a better term. That's what is commonly said and hack sounds really mean to me. Scores are usually higher on tour than regionals because of no "Toe" factor.

The Experience Leagues are great, don't get me wrong. But, you really don't bowl enough games to break them down much, and you don't change lanes or at least not from one end of the house to the other. These leagues are tougher than the THS and they will make you a better bowler.

Finally, I have to agree with a couple others. If the Exempt Players are NOT the best in the world, then WHO is? WRW, PDW, PBIII, TJ blah blah blah would tear me and most all of you a new one eight days a week.

Go Texans!! Oh yeah, bye week this week!! Go Texans!!!!

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Just because they make it in your size, doesn't mean you should wear it!!!

Check out my project: www.mikeaustinbowling.net

CHECK OUT MY BLOGS! www.myspace.com/strikes4days

Check out Tony's Journals - they are FREE!!
http://www.allbowling.com/journal/public.php?uid=67&leagueid=563

jensm · « **Reply #30 on:** November 11, 2007, 05:56:23 AM »

My take:

* The bowlers on the PBA tour are better than the status of the tour itself.

* The PBA tour has by far the greatest concentration of world-class bowlers anywhere in the world.

* There are a few international top amateurs who would give the PBA a go if there was more money to be made on tour.

* Higher prize sums on tour can only come from better-paying sponsors.

* Sponsors will pay more money if the status of bowling gets better in the eyes of people.

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Regards,

jensm

Author Topic: You really think the PBA bowlers are the best..? (Read 7099 times)

302efi

You really think the PBA bowlers are the best..?

HamPster

Re: You really think the PBA bowlers are the best..?

JessN16

Re: You really think the PBA bowlers are the best..?

302efi

Re: You really think the PBA bowlers are the best..?

Monster Pike

Re: You really think the PBA bowlers are the best..?

Mike Austin

Re: You really think the PBA bowlers are the best..?

302efi

Re: You really think the PBA bowlers are the best..?

JessN16

Re: You really think the PBA bowlers are the best..?

Siniak

Re: You really think the PBA bowlers are the best..?

DON DRAPER

Re: You really think the PBA bowlers are the best..?

Hex017

Re: You really think the PBA bowlers are the best..?

Bill Thomas

Re: You really think the PBA bowlers are the best..?

Monster Pike

Re: You really think the PBA bowlers are the best..?

Mark T. Trgovac

Re: You really think the PBA bowlers are the best..?

Mike Austin

Re: You really think the PBA bowlers are the best..?

jensm

Re: You really think the PBA bowlers are the best..?