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Author Topic: Motiv Future  (Read 41388 times)

nadertime78

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Motiv Future
« on: March 15, 2016, 11:38:58 PM »
I didn't see this in the Jackal post, but my question is can Motiv survive this financially?

Been using just Motiv for over a year now and seeing any sort downward trend in the products or change in ownership would suck.




 

ITZPS

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Re: Motiv Future
« Reply #91 on: March 17, 2016, 01:38:26 PM »
WOWZERS, I like you, but here you're wrong.  Motiv sells a product, a bowling ball.  A bowling ball.  Going back to the car analogy.  If a part is found to be defective, the part is replaced by the company.  The part was made by them and installed by them.  Therefore they are responsible for the entirety of it.  When parts are replaced, you are REQUIRED to take the car to one of that company's dealerships for replacement.  Otherwise, it's on you.  Did Motiv drill your ball?  Did they make the inserts used in it?  Motiv is ONLY responsible for the product they provided, which is the bowling ball, undrilled.  You seem to have this very leftist idea where everyone else is responsible for everything, even if they shouldn't be.  Motiv sold a ball, and are replacing a ball.  What is then done with that ball after the fact is not and shouldn't be their concern.  There are plenty of people who have undrilled extras of these balls in their closets, should Motiv both send a replacement and pay the drilling cost for the new balls?  Just because they haven't gotten the ball drilled yet doesn't mean they aren't going to.  By your logic, all ball companies should pay for drilling, because after all, they're just selling a ball, people are going to need it drilled to use it, duh.  So because you chose to drill the ball you purchased instead of stashing it, why do you earn extra compensation over the guys that haven't drilled theirs yet? 

So you spent money getting it drilled, did that money go to Motiv? No it didn't.  So how are they responsible for the drilling when they had absolutely nothing to do with it?  And if we're talking about problems with the country, one of the problems is people trying to bankrupt companies over getting every dime out of them they think they should or think they deserve.  Explain to me next how people on welfare earn my tax dollars when I'M the one that worked for those dollars.  BOTTOM LINE, Motiv sold a product, let's even get as down and dirty as you want.  They sold a defective, illegal part.  They are ONLY responsible for the product they sold you, not what you chose to do with it afterwards.  Some people don't use grips, some people have access to a drill press and get drilling for free.  How do they owe you anything more than they owe someone else?  It's your choice to use grips and/or slug, and/or interchangeable thumbs and/or interchangeable fingers, how is Motiv responsible for any or all of that because you CHOSE to have all that done? 

Again, how do they avoid getting scammed?  What's to keep someone with access to a drill press and inserts that gets their stuff drilled for free from trying to get a drilling fee out of them?  Maybe there are even people who don't use grips and a slug that get free drilling that will go add grips and a slug to a now worthless ball just to up what Motiv "owes" them.  There are people who leave their balls out in freezing conditions, just for the ball to crack, and then they go after the ball company for a replacement.  Not the company's fault, but most replace them anyway because it's good PR.  Not something they should have to do, but that's the way this country works.  Using inserts and drilling any hole within an inch of the pin also voids the warranty, but they usually replace balls that crack from that too.  The way liability works is that the company is liable for the product they sold, and unless that product causes damage to something else, they are only liable for the faulty part.  So Motiv sold you a NOW illegal ball, as there are no retroactive penalties for using said ball.  They are liable to replace that ball, not anything you had done to it.  And again, people bought a ball, got plenty of use out of it, maybe it even won them money, yet Motiv is still replacing it with a BRAND NEW ball.  There's not even any depreciation involved here.  Why should they have to give you a brand new ball after you have already gotten plenty of use out of the one you had while it was legal?  No one lost any money, no one had honor scores revoked, no one had tournament wins vacated . . but Motiv still owes people a brand new ball AND drilling cost to replace a used old ball?  Why do they not deserve fair terms themselves? 

So if someone has a brand new undrilled Jackal in their closet, fair would be replacing the ball, correct?  After all, the customer didn't pay to have it drilled or anything, so no harm no foul.  However, if someone has it drilled and has gotten a lot of use out of it, why can't Motiv pro-rate the current value?  After all, the ball was completely legal up until yesterday.  Those who owned it have already gotten plenty of use and value out of it, why does Motiv owe them a completely new ball to replace something used and worn?  They aren't just out a ball, it's costing them twice in most cases.  How many people are going to get a new ball for free that they'd been wanting to buy anyway?  That's all I've heard so far, "Oh well this works out because I'd been wanting to get this one anyway."  Have one guy that's had a Jackal since it came out, now he's going to fill out the claim for a Paranoia because he's gotten his use out of the Jackal and wanted to get a Paranoia anyway, but this guy is STILL bitching about the drilling thing.  He's gotten a year and a half of use out of the Jackal and is getting a brand new release FOR FREE and he's crying about the drilling.  Meanwhile, some people don't bowl sanctioned leagues or tournaments and are free to keep using these balls and I guarantee they're still going to make claims and KEEP using their Jackal(s). 

When something accidental like this comes along and you want to just absolutely stick it to them so they "don't get away with it," that sickens me.  The core molds got a little worn, and I do mean a LITTLE worn, this problem pops up, Motiv replacing all balls for free, yet someone is still finding a way to cry and complain about it.  Meanwhile other people are purposely NOT filing a claim to show support for the company.  I just can't even . . SMH, #ridiculous and so on and so forth.  Done with this topic. 
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ITZPS

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Re: Motiv Future
« Reply #92 on: March 17, 2016, 01:39:44 PM »
Bingo.



So once again, the manufacturing of the ball was the mistake BEFORE it was ever drilled.




>> But a mistake is a mistake and the entire mistake must be fixed.

The mistake was the bowling ball, not they way the bowling ball was drilled. Therefore, you just refuted your own argument for Motiv to pay for your drilling fees.

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WOWZERS

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Re: Motiv Future
« Reply #93 on: March 17, 2016, 01:41:27 PM »
I remember when I had an accident and my bowling balls were in the trunk of my car and were destroyed (one cracked in half, the others ehh). But my insurance company replaced them all. I took the balls to the office (this was 1998) I handed him the bowling balls, he handed me a check for everything, and I watched him take the balls out to the dumpster out back so nobody could use the balls again. Maybe Motiv should ask for the balls back that they replace so nobody can use them further?


tkkshop

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Re: Motiv Future
« Reply #94 on: March 17, 2016, 01:51:23 PM »
I remember when I had an accident and my bowling balls were in the trunk of my car and were destroyed (one cracked in half, the others ehh). But my insurance company replaced them all. I took the balls to the office (this was 1998) I handed him the bowling balls, he handed me a check for everything, and I watched him take the balls out to the dumpster out back so nobody could use the balls again. Maybe Motiv should ask for the balls back that they replace so nobody can use them further?
If you average 10-15 bucks per person for shipping, that can be pretty lucrative. Motiv will let the bowlers keep the balls, no doubt.

ITZPS

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Re: Motiv Future
« Reply #95 on: March 17, 2016, 01:54:27 PM »
That's what they usually do on cracked or warranty stuff.  Get serial number and all information, then have a pro shop drill out serial number and a couple holes in the logo, send pictures to verify ball has been made illegal.  However, Motiv isn't doing that in this case, you're free to keep the balls and use them in practice or non sanctioned competition. 

Insurance isn't the same parallel, you're paying a monthly fee for a safety net.  It's not a free bonus you get for purchasing a car.  You pay for the coverage you want.  However, if you want to go that direction, if you have a car from 2008 with 100k miles on it that's not worth half of what it was new and you total it, your insurance company doesn't pay for a brand new car and let you keep the old one . . and in this case, the ball will still function like it did when it was legal . .

I remember when I had an accident and my bowling balls were in the trunk of my car and were destroyed (one cracked in half, the others ehh). But my insurance company replaced them all. I took the balls to the office (this was 1998) I handed him the bowling balls, he handed me a check for everything, and I watched him take the balls out to the dumpster out back so nobody could use the balls again. Maybe Motiv should ask for the balls back that they replace so nobody can use them further?
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ITZPS

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Re: Motiv Future
« Reply #96 on: March 17, 2016, 01:59:32 PM »
Yeah, shipping balls back never happens unless it's a unique defect or damage that they want to investigate, and then they'll pay for it.  Shipping back in this case or regular warranty cases won't happen.   

I remember when I had an accident and my bowling balls were in the trunk of my car and were destroyed (one cracked in half, the others ehh). But my insurance company replaced them all. I took the balls to the office (this was 1998) I handed him the bowling balls, he handed me a check for everything, and I watched him take the balls out to the dumpster out back so nobody could use the balls again. Maybe Motiv should ask for the balls back that they replace so nobody can use them further?
If you average 10-15 bucks per person for shipping, that can be pretty lucrative. Motiv will let the bowlers keep the balls, no doubt.
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JamminJD

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Re: Motiv Future
« Reply #97 on: March 17, 2016, 03:25:13 PM »
WOWZERS, I like you, but here you're wrong.  Motiv sells a product, a bowling ball.  A bowling ball.  Going back to the car analogy.  If a part is found to be defective, the part is replaced by the company.  The part was made by them and installed by them.  Therefore they are responsible for the entirety of it.  When parts are replaced, you are REQUIRED to take the car to one of that company's dealerships for replacement.  Otherwise, it's on you.  Did Motiv drill your ball?  Did they make the inserts used in it?  Motiv is ONLY responsible for the product they provided, which is the bowling ball, undrilled.  You seem to have this very leftist idea where everyone else is responsible for everything, even if they shouldn't be.  Motiv sold a ball, and are replacing a ball.  What is then done with that ball after the fact is not and shouldn't be their concern.  There are plenty of people who have undrilled extras of these balls in their closets, should Motiv both send a replacement and pay the drilling cost for the new balls?  Just because they haven't gotten the ball drilled yet doesn't mean they aren't going to.  By your logic, all ball companies should pay for drilling, because after all, they're just selling a ball, people are going to need it drilled to use it, duh.  So because you chose to drill the ball you purchased instead of stashing it, why do you earn extra compensation over the guys that haven't drilled theirs yet? 

So you spent money getting it drilled, did that money go to Motiv? No it didn't.  So how are they responsible for the drilling when they had absolutely nothing to do with it?  And if we're talking about problems with the country, one of the problems is people trying to bankrupt companies over getting every dime out of them they think they should or think they deserve.  Explain to me next how people on welfare earn my tax dollars when I'M the one that worked for those dollars.  BOTTOM LINE, Motiv sold a product, let's even get as down and dirty as you want.  They sold a defective, illegal part.  They are ONLY responsible for the product they sold you, not what you chose to do with it afterwards.  Some people don't use grips, some people have access to a drill press and get drilling for free.  How do they owe you anything more than they owe someone else?  It's your choice to use grips and/or slug, and/or interchangeable thumbs and/or interchangeable fingers, how is Motiv responsible for any or all of that because you CHOSE to have all that done? 

Again, how do they avoid getting scammed?  What's to keep someone with access to a drill press and inserts that gets their stuff drilled for free from trying to get a drilling fee out of them?  Maybe there are even people who don't use grips and a slug that get free drilling that will go add grips and a slug to a now worthless ball just to up what Motiv "owes" them.  There are people who leave their balls out in freezing conditions, just for the ball to crack, and then they go after the ball company for a replacement.  Not the company's fault, but most replace them anyway because it's good PR.  Not something they should have to do, but that's the way this country works.  Using inserts and drilling any hole within an inch of the pin also voids the warranty, but they usually replace balls that crack from that too.  The way liability works is that the company is liable for the product they sold, and unless that product causes damage to something else, they are only liable for the faulty part.  So Motiv sold you a NOW illegal ball, as there are no retroactive penalties for using said ball.  They are liable to replace that ball, not anything you had done to it.  And again, people bought a ball, got plenty of use out of it, maybe it even won them money, yet Motiv is still replacing it with a BRAND NEW ball.  There's not even any depreciation involved here.  Why should they have to give you a brand new ball after you have already gotten plenty of use out of the one you had while it was legal?  No one lost any money, no one had honor scores revoked, no one had tournament wins vacated . . but Motiv still owes people a brand new ball AND drilling cost to replace a used old ball?  Why do they not deserve fair terms themselves? 

So if someone has a brand new undrilled Jackal in their closet, fair would be replacing the ball, correct?  After all, the customer didn't pay to have it drilled or anything, so no harm no foul.  However, if someone has it drilled and has gotten a lot of use out of it, why can't Motiv pro-rate the current value?  After all, the ball was completely legal up until yesterday.  Those who owned it have already gotten plenty of use and value out of it, why does Motiv owe them a completely new ball to replace something used and worn?  They aren't just out a ball, it's costing them twice in most cases.  How many people are going to get a new ball for free that they'd been wanting to buy anyway?  That's all I've heard so far, "Oh well this works out because I'd been wanting to get this one anyway."  Have one guy that's had a Jackal since it came out, now he's going to fill out the claim for a Paranoia because he's gotten his use out of the Jackal and wanted to get a Paranoia anyway, but this guy is STILL bitching about the drilling thing.  He's gotten a year and a half of use out of the Jackal and is getting a brand new release FOR FREE and he's crying about the drilling.  Meanwhile, some people don't bowl sanctioned leagues or tournaments and are free to keep using these balls and I guarantee they're still going to make claims and KEEP using their Jackal(s). 

When something accidental like this comes along and you want to just absolutely stick it to them so they "don't get away with it," that sickens me.  The core molds got a little worn, and I do mean a LITTLE worn, this problem pops up, Motiv replacing all balls for free, yet someone is still finding a way to cry and complain about it.  Meanwhile other people are purposely NOT filing a claim to show support for the company.  I just can't even . . SMH, #ridiculous and so on and so forth.  Done with this topic. 

Again--ON FIRE!!

Perfect Approach Pro Shop

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Re: Motiv Future
« Reply #98 on: March 17, 2016, 03:42:07 PM »
     Asking for drilling fees is unacceptable. What percentage of the people getting replacements have access to or get reduced drilling from their "friends" in the pro shop. How many of these people will scam Motiv to get free money? How many paid $50 and will claim they paid $75? Take the replacemnt ball and be happy with it. If you have a decent PSO, they should be understanding as this is not a cracked ball situation, it's a unheard of circumstance. If PSO,s are thinking that this is a good opportunity to put $$$ in their pocket, then maybe they should not stock and promote Motiv products as if I were in Motivs situation, I would look at this PSO as insulting the company.
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JamminJD

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Re: Motiv Future
« Reply #99 on: March 17, 2016, 03:45:46 PM »
     Asking for drilling fees is unacceptable. What percentage of the people getting replacements have access to or get reduced drilling from their "friends" in the pro shop. How many of these people will scam Motiv to get free money? How many paid $50 and will claim they paid $75? Take the replacemnt ball and be happy with it. If you have a decent PSO, they should be understanding as this is not a cracked ball situation, it's a unheard of circumstance. If PSO,s are thinking that this is a good opportunity to put $$$ in their pocket, then maybe they should not stock and promote Motiv products as if I were in Motivs situation, I would look at this PSO as insulting the company.
+1

Aloarjr810

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Re: Motiv Future
« Reply #100 on: March 17, 2016, 03:49:52 PM »
From the Daily News
http://www.thedailynewsonline.com/bdn02/bowlings-governing-body-declares-2-motiv-balls-illegal-20160317

"The president of the Motiv bowling ball company said his firm will reimburse customers in light of a United States Bowling Congress decision to declare two of Motiv’s high-performance balls illegal due to non-compliance with current specification requirements.

“While we’re really disappointed in the action taken (by the USBC), we will warranty the balls,” said Scott Wilbur, speaking by telephone from the firm’s office in Michigan. “We will not be able to reimburse drilling fees, but we will replace the bowling ball with a current model or a future release of the Jackal.”[/url]"


"“We will comply and will discontinue them,” said Wilbur, adding that the ruling will cost Motiv around $1 million."
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tkkshop

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Re: Motiv Future
« Reply #101 on: March 17, 2016, 04:02:45 PM »
From the Daily News
http://www.thedailynewsonline.com/bdn02/bowlings-governing-body-declares-2-motiv-balls-illegal-20160317

"The president of the Motiv bowling ball company said his firm will reimburse customers in light of a United States Bowling Congress decision to declare two of Motiv’s high-performance balls illegal due to non-compliance with current specification requirements.

“While we’re really disappointed in the action taken (by the USBC), we will warranty the balls,” said Scott Wilbur, speaking by telephone from the firm’s office in Michigan. “We will not be able to reimburse drilling fees, but we will replace the bowling ball with a current model or a future release of the Jackal.”[/url]"


"“We will comply and will discontinue them,” said Wilbur, adding that the ruling will cost Motiv around $1 million."
my sources have been correct so far 8)

CoorZero

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Re: Motiv Future
« Reply #102 on: March 17, 2016, 04:05:17 PM »
From the Daily News
http://www.thedailynewsonline.com/bdn02/bowlings-governing-body-declares-2-motiv-balls-illegal-20160317

"The president of the Motiv bowling ball company said his firm will reimburse customers in light of a United States Bowling Congress decision to declare two of Motiv’s high-performance balls illegal due to non-compliance with current specification requirements.

“While we’re really disappointed in the action taken (by the USBC), we will warranty the balls,” said Scott Wilbur, speaking by telephone from the firm’s office in Michigan. “We will not be able to reimburse drilling fees, but we will replace the bowling ball with a current model or a future release of the Jackal.”[/url]"


"“We will comply and will discontinue them,” said Wilbur, adding that the ruling will cost Motiv around $1 million."

Those comments (or something extremely similar) were initially in the news article on Motiv's site too but have since been removed. I'm not sure when that happened though, it might have been fairly quickly on Tuesday.

Nails

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Re: Motiv Future
« Reply #103 on: March 17, 2016, 04:31:05 PM »
From the Daily News
http://www.thedailynewsonline.com/bdn02/bowlings-governing-body-declares-2-motiv-balls-illegal-20160317

"The president of the Motiv bowling ball company said his firm will reimburse customers in light of a United States Bowling Congress decision to declare two of Motiv’s high-performance balls illegal due to non-compliance with current specification requirements.

“While we’re really disappointed in the action taken (by the USBC), we will warranty the balls,” said Scott Wilbur, speaking by telephone from the firm’s office in Michigan. “We will not be able to reimburse drilling fees, but we will replace the bowling ball with a current model or a future release of the Jackal.”[/url]"


"“We will comply and will discontinue them,” said Wilbur, adding that the ruling will cost Motiv around $1 million."
my sources have been correct so far 8)

I'm hearing that this will be a 7 digit loss. And the first number, isn't a one. :o

Well, you're in the ballpark.  ::)

Aloarjr810

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Re: Motiv Future
« Reply #104 on: March 17, 2016, 04:36:33 PM »
From the Daily News
http://www.thedailynewsonline.com/bdn02/bowlings-governing-body-declares-2-motiv-balls-illegal-20160317

"The president of the Motiv bowling ball company said his firm will reimburse customers in light of a United States Bowling Congress decision to declare two of Motiv’s high-performance balls illegal due to non-compliance with current specification requirements.

“While we’re really disappointed in the action taken (by the USBC), we will warranty the balls,” said Scott Wilbur, speaking by telephone from the firm’s office in Michigan. “We will not be able to reimburse drilling fees, but we will replace the bowling ball with a current model or a future release of the Jackal.”[/url]"


"“We will comply and will discontinue them,” said Wilbur, adding that the ruling will cost Motiv around $1 million."
my sources have been correct so far 8)

I'm hearing that this will be a 7 digit loss. And the first number, isn't a one. :o

Well, you're in the ballpark.  ::)
That's probably a paper million too. You know based on MSRP prices etc.
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WOWZERS

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Re: Motiv Future
« Reply #105 on: March 17, 2016, 04:39:23 PM »
I wonder how that phone call went down between Scott and the USBC.....oh to be a fly on the wall.