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Author Topic: Immortal Solid question...  (Read 5517 times)

Nor Cal Bowler

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Immortal Solid question...
« on: November 30, 2008, 02:08:02 PM »
Has anyone had any success with this ball on synthetics? No matter what i set the coverstock to this ball just wants to slide all the way down the lane.

Its very confusing on why it does that....
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I_Bowl4Money

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Re: Immortal Solid question...
« Reply #31 on: December 02, 2008, 09:06:48 AM »
Nor Cal, bltbyj, J_w73,

Here is my $.02 on what I'm seeing with your layouts and with many other bowlers I've dealt with in the past with regards to this ball and other balls like it.

The Immortal Solid is a the stongest ball ever made in the bowling industry, PERIOD!

Sadly enough, people have mis-drilled this ball numerous times because they didn't understand just how strong it really was because nothing compared to it, hence the reason other manufacturers scrambled to make big hooking balls to compete with this juggernaut.

Now, with your situations, based on the pics, i agree with Scotts.  The pins are low, 1 to 1.5 inches right of your ring (nearly leverage for most), this ball will begin to come off it's axis rotation as soon as it encounters enough friction to do so (at 1000, it doesn't take much).

There are 5 types of bowlers and these are the layouts I potentially layout for them on the Immortal Solid, adjust cover accordingly:

Speed Dominant - Leverage to 4 inches (drill angle 20-40, val angle 40-50)

Slightly Speed Dominant - 4 to 4.5 inches (drill angle 20-50, val angle (40-50)

Match - 4.5 to 5 inches (drill angle 40-70, val angle 50-70)

Slightly Rev Dominant - 5 to 5.5 inches (drill angle 60-80, val angle 50-70)

Rev Dominant - 5.5 to 6 inches (drill angle 80-105, val angle 60-80)

If you're able to measure your angles, it would be interesting to see where your style and those angles fall into the listing above.  I tend to fall between match and slightly speed dominant so I use the angles to help me create the ball reaction I see myself needing on certain patterns.

More to come...let me know your thoughts....I hope you find some of this information useful.  Scotts33, i agree with your analysis, hopefully this helps in isolating the issue from a technical view.
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  • Stephen Hahn
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    Nor Cal Bowler

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    Re: Immortal Solid question...
    « Reply #32 on: December 02, 2008, 09:10:43 AM »
    Stephen,

    Do you by chance have pics of the layouts of your whole visionary arsenal?

    Thanks!
    quote:
    My Immortal Solid:

    http://www.bowl4money.com/images/balls/Immortal%20Solid.gif

    PIN to PAP: 5"
    Drill Angle: 65 degrees
    VAL Angle: 40 degrees

    Coverstock: 2000 Abralon w/light factory polish

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    Nor Cal Bowler

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    Re: Immortal Solid question...
    « Reply #33 on: December 02, 2008, 09:26:40 AM »
    Stephen,
    Hmmm, I have to look into that. I would say that Im about speed dominant to slightly speed dominant. I may to plug and redrill this ball.

    Thanks!
    quote:
    Nor Cal, bltbyj, J_w73,

    Here is my $.02 on what I'm seeing with your layouts and with many other bowlers I've dealt with in the past with regards to this ball and other balls like it.

    The Immortal Solid is a the stongest ball ever made in the bowling industry, PERIOD!

    Sadly enough, people have mis-drilled this ball numerous times because they didn't understand just how strong it really was because nothing compared to it, hence the reason other manufacturers scrambled to make big hooking balls to compete with this juggernaut.

    Now, with your situations, based on the pics, i agree with Scotts.  The pins are low, 1 to 1.5 inches right of your ring (nearly leverage for most), this ball will begin to come off it's axis rotation as soon as it encounters enough friction to do so (at 1000, it doesn't take much).

    There are 5 types of bowlers and these are the layouts I potentially layout for them on the Immortal Solid, adjust cover accordingly:

    Speed Dominant - Leverage to 4 inches (drill angle 20-40, val angle 40-50)

    Slightly Speed Dominant - 4 to 4.5 inches (drill angle 20-50, val angle (40-50)

    Match - 4.5 to 5 inches (drill angle 40-70, val angle 50-70)

    Slightly Rev Dominant - 5 to 5.5 inches (drill angle 60-80, val angle 50-70)

    Rev Dominant - 5.5 to 6 inches (drill angle 80-105, val angle 60-80)

    If you're able to measure your angles, it would be interesting to see where your style and those angles fall into the listing above.  I tend to fall between match and slightly speed dominant so I use the angles to help me create the ball reaction I see myself needing on certain patterns.

    More to come...let me know your thoughts....I hope you find some of this information useful.  Scotts33, i agree with your analysis, hopefully this helps in isolating the issue from a technical view.
    --------------------
    Stephen Hahn

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    Nor Cal Bowler

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    Re: Immortal Solid question...
    « Reply #34 on: December 02, 2008, 09:34:44 AM »
    quote:
    quote:
    Here is how mine is drilled...



    I screwed up on the plug job on the fingers
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    Edited on 12/1/2008 9:34 PM

    present drill looks like a pretty strong layout..

    what was up with the first drill.. did you throw that..
    looks closer to my layout..except the pin is below the fingers as opposed to above..


    I got the ball used on here. What I mean about the plug job is I didnt get the bright yellow dark enough so the fingers look clear.
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    J_w73

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    Re: Immortal Solid question...
    « Reply #35 on: December 02, 2008, 09:51:14 AM »
    quote:
    scotts33,
    I would say a THS but I can find out for sure on wednesday not sure what type or how old the synthetics are. I would stand with my left big toe on 26 looking 15 at the arrows to around 7 at the break point. I do pretty well with my Blue Nanodesu (I think its particle pearl) or my Pearl Blue Carbide Buzzsaw.


    what house are you talking about..? if it is a certain house in the area then it might not be the "synthetics"
    375 RPM, 17-18 MPH, 45+ DEG AXIS ROTATION, 17 DEG TILT

    J_w73

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    Re: Immortal Solid question...
    « Reply #36 on: December 02, 2008, 10:11:56 AM »
    quote:
    Here is how mine is drilled...



    I screwed up on the plug job on the fingers
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    Edited on 12/1/2008 9:34 PM


    where is the weight hole on that ball??
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    Nor Cal Bowler

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    Re: Immortal Solid question...
    « Reply #37 on: December 02, 2008, 11:10:37 AM »
    I plan on taking pics of my whole drilled visionary arsenal and Ill post it this weekend...
    quote:
    quote:
    Here is how mine is drilled...



    I screwed up on the plug job on the fingers
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    Edited on 12/1/2008 9:34 PM


    where is the weight hole on that ball??

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    I_Bowl4Money

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    Re: Immortal Solid question...
    « Reply #38 on: December 02, 2008, 11:25:22 AM »
    Matt,

    You should cut out some of the extra signature stuff in your quotes...making the reading screen very long.

    Anyways, I've posted pics of the Imm Solid, New Breed Solid, New Breed Pearl on my What's In The Bag....

    I'll have the rest in up there and I'll layout the ball with the dual angles mapped on the balls too.

    J, I replied to your PM.
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  • Stephen Hahn
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    Re: Immortal Solid question...
    « Reply #39 on: December 02, 2008, 11:36:17 AM »
    Fixed
    quote:
    Matt,

    You should cut out some of the extra signature stuff in your quotes...making the reading screen very long.

    Anyways, I've posted pics of the Imm Solid, New Breed Solid, New Breed Pearl on my What's In The Bag....

    I'll have the rest in up there and I'll layout the ball with the dual angles mapped on the balls too.

    J, I replied to your PM.
    --------------------
    Stephen Hahn

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    bltbyj

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    Re: Immortal Solid question...
    « Reply #40 on: December 02, 2008, 01:18:00 PM »
    Stephen,
    Seeing the layout I have on my ball and the one vid shot. I don't think I've had this answered. Wouldn't the ball burn up on dry wood lanes? If you see the vid shot the house that I rolled it in is known to be on the dry side and the house I bowl in now has more oil and even when I move out the ball doesn't want to recover. I know this is a very strong ball thats why I got it. I just don't know why it works better with little oil as to a medium amount of oil.

    I_Bowl4Money

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    Re: Immortal Solid question...
    « Reply #41 on: December 02, 2008, 02:21:34 PM »
    The easiest way to see how the ball is reading the lane is to place a piece of tape on your Axis and watch how it moves as the ball goes down the lane.  That piece of tape will tell you whether the ball stays on its axis too long or if it comes off the axis too quickly.

    Hence,

    On axis to long, need more surface (ie. 500 grit abralon and then work your way back up).

    Off axis too quickly, needs less surface (ie. 2000 or 4000 abralon and/or plus polish).

    Good Luck, let me know what you find out based on the tape test.
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    J_w73

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    Re: Immortal Solid question...
    « Reply #42 on: December 02, 2008, 02:30:30 PM »
    quote:


    On axis to long, need more surface (ie. 500 grit abralon and then work your way back up).

    Off axis too quickly, needs less surface (ie. 2000 or 4000 abralon and/or plus polish).



    [/size=2][/font=Verdana]


    you are saying the tape will stay on the PAP if there is oil and no friction??...
    ball will not flare??

    what does off axis too quickly look like.. ??
    375 RPM, 17-18 MPH, 45+ DEG AXIS ROTATION, 17 DEG TILT

    scotts33

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    Re: Immortal Solid question...
    « Reply #43 on: December 02, 2008, 03:25:28 PM »
    Very good comment Stephen.  Tape will show if you have a flare out situation.
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    bltbyj

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    Re: Immortal Solid question...
    « Reply #44 on: December 02, 2008, 05:57:43 PM »
    Stephen,
    I'll do one better I'm going to shoot video tonight of mine and Matt's and then I'll post it here.

    Nor Cal Bowler

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    Re: Immortal Solid question...
    « Reply #45 on: December 03, 2008, 07:24:58 AM »
    Well last night Jay and I threw our Immortal solids and I also threw my Immortal Pearl.
    We bowled right after league on a pair we are going to bowl on this coming weekend in a tournament (which should be very similar if they dont oil our pair for the last 3 games of the 6 gamer).
    Anyways, I threw my solid and same thing, the thing slid. We didnt get it on video, but if I took a good 4mph off the ball, it read and struck.

    Jay's ball worked great which is why he says the ball works good for him on dry rather then a wet condition.

    I noticed throwing both immortals is I know Im a low tracker but the balls had a really weird track on the ball with the combo I think of the flair and my track. I have to see if I can get pics to show it or not. I may have to use a grease pencil to highlight it...
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